Jump to content

Guzzista

Beware of Snake Oil & Blind Belief!

Recommended Posts

At the outset I would like to state that the following experience is real and the product mentioned is available for testing.......

 

Some years ago when I made a serious upgrade of my Hi-Fi system a good friend of mine told me about a product he just purchased and recommended it to me, it was a sort of powerbox conditioner with a power board attached to plug in my components, I accepted his advice and ordered one.

 

For all of this time I have been listening to my equipment not knowing any different. that is to say quite happy, until this afternoon.

 

The same friend dropped in and the first thing he asked me was "do you have a short extension cord?" why I asked and he explained what had happened with his Hi-Fi earlier today. While adding a new CD transport he unplugged all his gear as one would, then when the new CD transport was booted up the LED screen scrolled through a message........ "power supply is 'out of phase'..."

 

He then bypassed the powerbox, the warning signal on the CDP went away and, the sound reproduction was seriously improved. We did the same at my home, I replaced the offending product with a simple Kambrook power board and? yep I found new sounds in my recorded music, for all this time my good equipment and more recently my new TT were being supplied source power in reverse phase!

 

I don't have to tell the Choir how much my music sound reproduction has improved........

 

"Buyer Beware!"

 

 

Edited by Guzzista

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to dismantle this device and see if there is anything inside it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Guzzista said:

While adding a new CD transport he unplugged all his gear as one would, then when the new CD transport was booted up the LED screen scrolled through a message........ "power supply is 'out of phase'..."

 

He then bypassed the powerbox, the warning signal on the CDP went away and, the sound reproduction was seriously improved. We did the same at my home, I replaced the offending product with a simple Kambrook power board and? yep I found new sounds in my recorded music, for all this time my good equipment and more recently my new TT were being supplied source power in reverse phase!

 

Not so much "out of phase" - as it's AC - but simply that the output sockets of this 'power box' (or the power board attached to this device, which you mentioned) have 'neutral' swapped with 'live'.  This can be a problem for power transformers, due to capacitative coupling between primary and secondary windings - and, yes, it affects the sound you hear!  :(

 

However, as I guarantee mfrs do not always connect the primary winding on the power transformer(s) the optimal way round ... some equipment (if it is connected the 'wrong' way round) could actually sound better using the power box.

 

What you need to do is have an electrician mate make up a short extension cable which deliberately has neutral swapped with live.  Then try it on each piece of your equipment in turn ... and see if your sound improves.  Those components which sound better with this 'reversed' extension cord have their power transformer(s) connected the wrong way round - so you should take them to a tech, to have the power transformer primaries reversed at the IEC socket.

 

I test power transformers for correct orientation on every mains-powered item I make.

 

Andy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Not so much "out of phase" - as it's AC - but simply that the output sockets of this 'power box' (or the power board attached to this device, which you mentioned) have 'neutral' swapped with 'live'.  This can be a problem for power transformers, due to capacitative coupling between primary and secondary windings - and, yes, it affects the sound you hear!  :(

 

However, as I guarantee mfrs do not always connect the primary winding on the power transformer(s) the optimal way round ... some equipment (if it is connected the 'wrong' way round) could actually sound better using the power box.

 

What you need to do is have an electrician mate make up a short extension cable which deliberately has neutral swapped with live.  Then try it on each piece of your equipment in turn ... and see if your sound improves.  Those components which sound better with this 'reversed' extension cord have their power transformer(s) connected the wrong way round - so you should take them to a tech, to have the power transformer primaries reversed at the IEC socket.

 

I test power transformers for correct orientation on every mains-powered item I make.

 

Andy

 

andyr

 

Regardless of your advice, I know what I hear, I am not prepared to waist good money after bad on a piece of equipment that is incorrectly constructed. It going in the bin as a lesson learned! I don't think Nelson Pass or Symaudio ever design equipment to accommodate power supplies that have the neutral and live inputs reversed.

 

And that's that, its going where crap belongs.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, andyr said:

What you need to do is have an electrician mate make up a short extension cable which deliberately has neutral swapped with live.

Sounds “potentially” risky. Is that something a qualified electrician is even allowed to do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Sounds “potentially” risky. Is that something a qualified electrician is even allowed to do ?

No.....

 

and  I seriously will never recommend to do so or advise anyone to perform a dangerous practice.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


8 hours ago, Guzzista said:

andyr

 

Regardless of your advice, I know what I hear, I am not prepared to waist good money after bad on a piece of equipment that is incorrectly constructed. It going in the bin as a lesson learned! I don't think Nelson Pass or Symaudio ever design equipment to accommodate power supplies that have the neutral and live inputs reversed.

 

And that's that, its going where crap belongs.

 

You mis-understand me.

 

It's not a matter of bad design - merely bad implementation.

 

Nelson Pass's power supply - and every body else's - is designed correctly.  The 'active' goes through the fuse - as per electrical standards.  The issue - which, as you've experienced - affects the sound ... is whether the primary winding of the power transformer is optimally oriented wrt to 'active' and 'neutral'.

 

The power transformer will work quite happily, whichever orientation it has - and will meet electrical standards, connected both ways.  However, as you've experienced ... one way round will sound better.

 

Andy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will sound great till it kills you.

l wouldnt use that electricain to change a light bulb.

 

regards Bruce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, andyr said:

 

This can be a problem for power transformers, due to capacitative coupling between primary and secondary windings - and, yes, it affects the sound you hear!  :(

 

Andy

 

 

Just trying to improve my understanding here - how does the AC behaviour of the transformer affect the audio signal on the DC side of an amplifer or preamp ? 

The 240v AC supply is converted down to the region of, say,  12v to 40v DC by a (presumably high quality) AC-to-DC converter/rectifier, and the audio signal is only handled on the DC side.

 

Is it because the AC-DC converter module struggles to produce pure "flat-line" DC, or some other reason ?

 

Edited by marten

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not good at all. Was it expensive?

Che_SnakeOil.jpg.6240b5d0dbfe044d09deff07aed2863d.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×