Raydiodaze Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Hi, This is my first post to the forum and I'm looking for some advice. I have a set of B&W 702s (series 1) that I bought new about 14 months ago. Unfortunately they don't sound nearly as good in my lounge as they did at the Hi-Fi shop where I bought them. I've tried all sorts of locations, both with and without spikes and have used 2 different amps to drive them ( a Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated running KT88 valves, and a Plinius 9200 solid state integrated). The sound to me is a bit wooly, especially in the bass department. I am using pretty ordinary cables (plain old thick Monster cable). Could the problem be lack of break-in time? I've probably only used them about 40hours to date, or could my cables or amp/speaker pairing be the issue? Any advice greatly appreciated. Regards, Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 B&W take plenty of run-in time - at least 100 hours. The Plinius and Primaluna are unlikely to be the problem. Have you checked make sure your wiring isn't out of phase? Also, I'd expect that the shop had put some work into their room so it worked well acoustically. Finally, what source are you using for music (both player/dac and the music itself)? I'd expect that the shop used well mastered music and a good player/dac. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydiodaze Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 Thanks for your reply Quark. I'm using a Cambridge CXN network streamer mainly (Deezer HD), although I also play the occasional CD via a Musical Fidelity A3 CD player. I have checked and rechecked my cables to make sure I had the phase correct (I even put them deliberately out of phase to check which sounded worse). You may be right about the acoustic treatment and I've considered this. However it looks like my best bet may be to leave them running for a few days. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) Give it more time, Len Wallis sets up a radio tuner on static noise not too loud and that’s how they run in the speakers Neo Edited December 6, 2018 by Neo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 You should also keep experimenting with speaker placement. Cardas give a few options here. Before moving your speakers, try a bit of toe in. Start with an angle that, if you made a right angle from the middle of each speaker face, the two lines would cross about a meter behind your listening position. Tweak from there according to taste. I doubt that toe in will help with bass, but it can tighten up your perception of mids and highs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 In case you concerned with damage to speakers that’s how they run their speakers in, even the Focal Grand Utopia at $250k, observed first hand. Neo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I noticed another B&W speaker there in the background - do you find these sound Ok? This would confirm the run-in time is all that is required to get the 700's sounding as you would like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Is the bass reflex port free of obstruction, sometimes manufacturer would include a foam plug ? Neo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydiodaze Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Hydrology said: I noticed another B&W speaker there in the background - do you find these sound Ok? This would confirm the run-in time is all that is required to get the 700's sounding as you would like. Hi, The other speakers are CM1s, and to me they sound better than their larger siblings, even though I still don't feel the bass is "tight" enough. It's hard to tell if it's merely the room acoustics as they are very different beasts. I'll run the 702s for several days and report back. Thanks a lot for the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydiodaze Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Neo said: Is the bass reflex port free of obstruction, sometimes manufacturer would include a foam plug ? Neo I actually tried using the foam plugs from my CM1s in the 702s (the bass port is the same diameter) and it seemed to help a bit but then there wasn't enough bass energy. Thanks for the suggestions. I might try the 'static noise' suggestion and see how that goes. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 IMO it’s the room. I think no matter how long you run them in, it won’t fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todagt Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) Hi, are you sure they're 702's? They look a lot like CM10S2...... These are the 702 Is it possible you auditioned the 702 instore and they gave you CM10s instead? Although I'm not sure quite how different they would sound anyhow Edited December 6, 2018 by todagt Added picture 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 minute ago, todagt said: Hi, are you sure they're 702's? They look a lot like CM10S2...... You’d be correct. 700 series they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydiodaze Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 hour ago, todagt said: Hi, are you sure they're 702's? They look a lot like CM10S2...... These are the 702 Is it possible you auditioned the 702 instore and they gave you CM10s instead? Although I'm not sure quite how different they would sound anyhow OMG!! You are absolutely correct. Wow great start to my StereoNet membership I imagine all the advice given still applies to the CM10 S2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 27 minutes ago, Raydiodaze said: OMG!! You are absolutely correct. Wow great start to my StereoNet membership I imagine all the advice given still applies to the CM10 S2. Yes, but if you auditioned 702 and like them then no amount of cm10 run in will help. You should have auditioned cm10 as well and not auditioned one and bought the other Neo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Yup, 700 series a completly different beast. I’ve got the 700 series center and the little ones as rears (forgot the model numbers this second) and before that had the same in the CM series. And then there’s the 800’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 What about moving the speakers back closer to the wall, they appear to be way too forward and that can affect the bass as the reflex port is at the back of cm10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 And do yourself a favor experiment with afew different cables to monster, like even humble QED 79 nothing fancy but a great budget cable. If budget allows look into Audioquest Type 4. See if you can borrow from a local dealer Neo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydiodaze Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, Neo said: And do yourself a favor experiment with afew different cables to monster, like even humble QED 79 nothing fancy but a great budget cable. If budget allows look into Audioquest Type 4. See if you can borrow from a local dealer Neo Thanks Neo. I moved the speakers way forward to try to reduce the 'muddiness" of the bass. It helped a bit and improved the image but still not great. I was also thinking maybe new cables might help, but in the end I'm starting to suspect (as Sime V2 thinks) that it's my room. Maybe I'll need to move! Thanks for the cable recommendations. Unfortunately there are no Hi-Fi dealers in Launceston, so might have to take the plunge on a decent set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Not sure about actually moving as a viable alternative to solve your problem, perhaps like I said investigate with the better quality speaker cables and interconnects and see if it gives a desired improvements Neo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_mike Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Also, check your invoice! Make sure you didn't pay for the 702s and received a lesser model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awiseman Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Hi, This is my first post to the forum and I'm looking for some advice. I have a set of B&W 702s (series 1) that I bought new about 14 months ago. Unfortunately they don't sound nearly as good in my lounge as they did at the Hi-Fi shop where I bought them. I've tried all sorts of locations, both with and without spikes and have used 2 different amps to drive them ( a Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated running KT88 valves, and a Plinius 9200 solid state integrated). The sound to me is a bit wooly, especially in the bass department. I am using pretty ordinary cables (plain old thick Monster cable). Could the problem be lack of break-in time? I've probably only used them about 40hours to date, or could my cables or amp/speaker pairing be the issue? Any advice greatly appreciated. Regards, Ken. I’ve gotta say man that I’m not a fan of the new 700 series compared to the old ones which I have. But I found the cables made a huge difference especially in the bottom end. This is dependent on amps, but I’ve used QED genesis and Transperant. The QED genesis are silver so you need a warm amp but they have great defined bottom end and are nice and clean. Bi-wire also seems to make an improved difference with B&w’s. I hope this helps, happy listening! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haygeebaby Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 My 2 cents. Agree with Awiseman about bi-wire on B&W speakers. Bi-amping was an extra level of performance gained - this would be my target. Since you have two amps you might be able to get this to work. Source also improved things in my experience. Good luck with the 702! Hmmm CM10. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 06/12/2018 at 11:27 AM, Raydiodaze said: Hi, This is my first post to the forum and I'm looking for some advice. I have a set of B&W 702s (series 1) that I bought new about 14 months ago. Unfortunately they don't sound nearly as good in my lounge as they did at the Hi-Fi shop where I bought them. I've tried all sorts of locations, both with and without spikes and have used 2 different amps to drive them ( a Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated running KT88 valves, and a Plinius 9200 solid state integrated). The sound to me is a bit wooly, especially in the bass department. I am using pretty ordinary cables (plain old thick Monster cable). Could the problem be lack of break-in time? I've probably only used them about 40hours to date, or could my cables or amp/speaker pairing be the issue? Any advice greatly appreciated. Regards, Ken. Get rid of the loop you have carefully introduced in your spkr cables. If your cables are longer than what is needed for where the speakers are now ... use up the excess length by snaking them in 'Us' between the amp and the spkrs. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofix Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Timber floor or concrete slab? What amp did the store use for demo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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