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It’s a slow day 😀

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Guest Music monster
Just now, buddyev said:

It’s a slow day 😀

No worries mate it’s good to joke around. Gary the music monster 🎶

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52 minutes ago, Music monster said:

Totally disagree bigdog.the 30.7s are the best speakers magnapan has  made by far.and there not bass heavy at all. They are 4 way with a new midrange driver and a lower midrange driver.the only way Maggie’s could improve the sound quality was to go larger with bigger and better drivers.a lot of audiophiles around the world had begged magnapan including jv from the tas to reintroduce the tympani in a update version because they believed the 20 series actually went backwards compared to the tympani models.you should think more carefully before posting comments like that.Gary the music monster 🎶

 

 

Whether it's a 4 way, 3 way or 2 way, doesn't really matter. As long as the power amp is able to "grip" the speaker. From what I heard in Feb vs now is totally different. Anyway, proper amplification is another issue including placement and setup options, which have yet to be determined and fine tuned. Far too many placement arrays / configs and no bass controls either. For a panel of that size, it's not going to suit many rooms, bass controls would have been a well thought out design, exactly like the ones I auditioned in Feb, far more coherent and well balanced. The Relentless mono's can grip anything, hence maybe an unfair comparison.

 

The improvement aspects I pointed out are pretty clear, and I stand by that. Nearly every Maggie owner who is seriously looking at further improvements, has done one of those improvement aspects I have mentioned, if more... in fact all of those, including by-passing the cross-overs to much higher grade using DuLand and Mundorf caps. These are very high grade that are used in many other ribbon transducers, and can improve dynamics and transient speed to great lengths. Some of the Apogee refurbs I've auditioned in the past, specially done by Graz are nothing short of breath taking! Absolutely marvellous job of reviving them to such an awesome level. Obviously takes time and a lot of effort, which Graz puts into unlike anyone else. 

 

However, that is only an improvement point for some and for others the Maggies are just good enough just the way they are.

 

I really don't need to be warned on being more careful on what I say, this is not a "courtroom" rather a forum. Especially, when you are the one who pointed out the sudden shock in the "i" later on to discover that was not the case, also goes to show the level of "insecurity".

 

I have stated only good things about the 30.7's, not one or any of your posts have been positive on the CLX's, only comparison points and always some lack of bass...

Again, I'm very pleased with the Maggies and what they deliver but I still believe they could have addressed those improvements, at least in the 20.7's and then thought of launching something else "big" that is manageable by most high current amplifiers.

 

I would think they may do this in the "i" series of the 30.7's who knows... 

And as I always say, enjoy what you have.

BTW Are really enjoying it or is it just not good enough?

C'mon G-man, as if I missed that point 😉

Cheers bud, RJ

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9 hours ago, Big Dog RJ said:

Mmm...  

You have to remember that there will always be an ultimate to beat the "ultimate"! Hence, in all my experience there simply is no ultimate, it's only a "mind set... "

 

If this is the case then Magnepan have clearly lost the plot! Or I'm suspecting that someone has been put to task in order to get those flaws corrected in the previous version, and quickly address these aspects by creating a slightly modified version, so call it the "i".

Magnepan also did this very same thing with the MG3.7 first, only later on to introduce the 3.7i

 

However, that "i" series took a little while, a few years the most, to be introduced, and so it was well received. 

 

Now this is completely a shot in the foot! Having the 30.7 just launched, fresh out of the oven... And received all sorts of mixed reviews, of which many demos across the US weren't positive, and now they Re-introduced the very same model with an "i" series, oh boy, here we go again... 

 

This is also not going to go well with current customers, people who have already placed orders for the previous version and still waiting for delivery! 

Definitely not a good sign, in fact quite a foolish move. Anyway, they have their own reasons, all the best to them.

 

G-man, I wouldn't bother about it too much, afterall the 30.7's are the top of the line in the Maggie line up. Who knows what they've done with this one, I'm wondering whether it's a typo... 

Take it easy mate, just enjoy what you have. 

Cheers, RJ 

All reviews from the tas and hifi plus and others have being nothin less than surberb, stating the 30.7s are by far the best magnapan speaker ever made, and also the most versatile as you can adjust the bass panel and mid and hi panel to suit the room acoustics. Were bass sounds right in the room often doesn’t sound best for the mid and highs. Gary the music monster 🎶

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Big Dog RJ said:

Whether it's a 4 way, 3 way or 2 way, doesn't really matter. As long as the power amp is able to "grip" the speaker. From what I heard in Feb vs now is totally different. Anyway, proper amplification is another issue including placement and setup options, which have yet to be determined and fine tuned. Far too many placement arrays / configs and no bass controls either. For a panel of that size, it's not going to suit many rooms, bass controls would have been a well thought out design, exactly like the ones I auditioned in Feb, far more coherent and well balanced. The Relentless mono's can grip anything, hence maybe an unfair comparison.

 

The improvement aspects I pointed out are pretty clear, and I stand by that. Nearly every Maggie owner who is seriously looking at further improvements, has done one of those improvement aspects I have mentioned, if more... in fact all of those, including by-passing the cross-overs to much higher grade using DuLand and Mundorf caps. These are very high grade that are used in many other ribbon transducers, and can improve dynamics and transient speed to great lengths. Some of the Apogee refurbs I've auditioned in the past, specially done by Graz are nothing short of breath taking! Absolutely marvellous job of reviving them to such an awesome level. Obviously takes time and a lot of effort, which Graz puts into unlike anyone else. 

 

However, that is only an improvement point for some and for others the Maggies are just good enough just the way they are.

 

I really don't need to be warned on being more careful on what I say, this is not a "courtroom" rather a forum. Especially, when you are the one who pointed out the sudden shock in the "i" later on to discover that was not the case, also goes to show the level of "insecurity".

 

I have stated only good things about the 30.7's, not one or any of your posts have been positive on the CLX's, only comparison points and always some lack of bass...

Again, I'm very pleased with the Maggies and what they deliver but I still believe they could have addressed those improvements, at least in the 20.7's and then thought of launching something else "big" that is manageable by most high current amplifiers.

 

I would think they may do this in the "i" series of the 30.7's who knows... 

And as I always say, enjoy what you have.

BTW Are really enjoying it or is it just not good enough?

C'mon G-man, as if I missed that point 😉

Cheers bud, RJ

The only thing  I can say after hearing your clx is the 30.7s are a much better speaker without a doubt at least to me. Gary the music monster 🎶

Edited by Music monster

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Guest Music monster

Btw they fit bass controls only if the 30.7s will be used in a small room. In my room it isn’t necessary, so they leave it out. Gary the music monster 🎶

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2 hours ago, DMax said:
3 hours ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:
Where are you seeing that?
I can’t find anything online about a 30.7i model

It wasn't me it was Gary that saw it

Oops. Sorry 

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3 hours ago, Big Dog RJ said:

That's what I initially thought... 

 

It's already caused confusion and clearly Magnepan is going to lose credibility big time!

As my trusted long time Maggie dealer mate said, the MG20.7 was the best design they came up with by far. Single panel, much easier to control and allows a good high current amp to grip well. They should have simply further improved on the 20.7's by:

 

1. Improving the frames rigidness, including those "T" shaped feet... 

2. Utilising higher quality grade parts in the cross-overs

3. Top quality input connectors and fuses on the back panel

4. Incorporating more powerful magnets, such ferrite or Neyodimium, which would have increased the overall efficiency of the speakers 

And the list goes on... 

Then introduce a new version of the 20 series, that would have been a very different project and an overall improvement by all means. 

 

Re-introducing an out-dated Tympani design? What on earth for? Just to recreate a massive bass panel so that it could out-perform other larger panels... Introduces other issues by having far too much LF. 

 

Still I'm not sure if this is confirmed or not. Nothing mentioned on either website, McLean nor Magnepan... No idea what's going on. 

Anyway, whatever it is, they would have to explain the whole justification of introducing another version of which just came out. 

RJ 

Totally disagree Big Dog for a number of reasons which I will go into here.

 

For many many many years, audiophiles were begging Magnepan to reintroduce the tympani range. If you go over to the planar forum you can read for yourself.

The planar asylum is THE maggie forum by the way and has a number of people who have links with Wendell.

Magnepan listened. 

Why?

Think about the following Big Dog - why did magnepan introduce the DWM woofer panels????

 

Because it was an acknowledgement on their part that the single panels were missing something in the bottom end. This includes the 20.7s.

Put simply two panels of lower end surface area will outdo one panel.

My bass panels by the way were completely rewired BUT with quasi ribbon and NOT the original wire.

Difference in sound - chalk and cheese. Let me clarify this remark by stating that the repairer presented two pairs of 1Ds with the QR and with the original wire so I

had a reference point.

 

Night and day difference.

 

I DONT believe in passive XO's. I am all for active so I think that the current 30.7s can be improved even more.

 

But the fact remains that a pair of 20.7s coupled with a pair of DWM's are a poor mans tympani range.

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Guest Music monster
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Totally disagree Big Dog for a number of reasons which I will go into here.

 

For many many many years, audiophiles were begging Magnepan to reintroduce the tympani range. If you go over to the planar forum you can read for yourself.

The planar asylum is THE maggie forum by the way and has a number of people who have links with Wendell.

Magnepan listened. 

Why?

Think about the following Big Dog - why did magnepan introduce the DWM woofer panels????

 

Because it was an acknowledgement on their part that the single panels were missing something in the bottom end. This includes the 20.7s.

Put simply two panels of lower end surface area will outdo one panel.

My bass panels by the way were completely rewired BUT with quasi ribbon and NOT the original wire.

Difference in sound - chalk and cheese. Let me clarify this remark by stating that the repairer presented two pairs of 1Ds with the QR and with the original wire so I

had a reference point.

 

Night and day difference.

 

I DONT believe in passive XO's. I am all for active so I think that the current 30.7s can be improved even more.

 

But the fact remains that a pair of 20.7s coupled with a pair of DWM's are a poor mans tympani range.

Agree Ozzie. Bigdogs statement that 20.7s are the best magnapans ever is nonsense. And that the 30.7s have to much bass by far is nonsense as well. I can tell you Ozzie that the 30.7s sound incredible In my room easily the best speakers I have ever herd. Your welcome down for a listen.i also agree that your tympani upgraded would surpass the 20.7s and even probably compare to the 30.7s.The 30,7s improved further I guess so , but wouldn’t be easy they sound remarkable to me.Cheers gary the music monster 🎶

Edited by Music monster

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Ghostie, 

Agree on your points, no argument there. However, what I'm saying is through experience that others have had with their Maggies as well as myself, being a former Maggie dealer and owner; The majority of panels we sold, nearly every customer did some sort of upgrade / improvement on them, as they were speakers they were going to keep and not sell after a few years...

 

My good mate in Spore feels that the 20 series were their top line, with various iterations improved in each model, and now we have the 20.7. That's about as far as Magnepan have taken it. Then as you rightly pointed out they embarked on a project to re-introduced a multi-panel design, and developed the 30.7 taking certain aspects from the previous Tympani design.

 

Again that's about all they've reached. Further improvements could always be done with any speaker, not just Maggies... 

 

1. The point I'm trying to get across is that for this particular price range, which is far above the Maggie norm, they could have at least incorporated one of those improvements but they didn't. Instead only incremental improvements and frugal parts/quality upgrades. This to me is not a major step in design, and perhaps they were wanting to keep prices low as possible, fair enough. 

 

2. Therefore, why not introduce these improvements in a smaller version first, such as the 20.7 or 20.8 and then embark on an all out project, such as a 30.7/8 which will be a radical design, having a very high level of sonic mastering and performance, which it's not.

 

3. Obviously just looking at the size of the panels and comparing it to other Maggie models, this would certainly out-class them all. However, the question is by what margin and have Magnepan really utilized the best possible materials to take this design to an untouchable level? 

 

That question I already know by what I've heard. And to add to that, after listening to these on the Relentless amps, I can confirm they are well capable of doing remarkable things. I only hoped to gain more after it took so long to develop...

 

When I lived in the US for many years, I got to know a lot of high-end dealers, plus visited as many facilities as possible over the years, so I've been in touch directly with these people and have learned a great deal from their ongoing discussions at private gatherings, not on some planar asylum. Places I've visited, VTL, Manley Lab's, Krell, ML, Infinity, Magnepan, Genesis Advanced Technologies, Paradigm / Energy, AvantGarde, Gryphon, Nola Reference, YG Acoustics, Harbeth, B&W, Pass Labs, Carver Inc, even Bose, and my favourite of all, Conrad Johnson. Also a host of others I can't even remember... And Recently in Spore I've visited the dealerships for McIntosh, Magnepan, Alsyvox and ML, again all of whom I know personally over the decades... 

 

I'm certainly no expert and not stating here that anything is the "ultimate" or the "best" unlike others... What I'm saying is I certainly do know when something sounds right, and by that I'm referring to the following:

Coherency, speed, definition, transparency, "natural" tonality, and most of all "well balanced", not too much of anything. Other areas, such as imaging, soundstage depth and so on are quite apparent in virtually any high quality system, it's getting the balance and synergy right in order to reproduce the recording flawlessly or as closely as possible. 

 

Only a handful of systems can achieve this level by their owners carefully placing together a coherent system. In whatever shape size or form, when it sounds right you can tell straight away! 

 

Cheers to all, and enjoy your panels, afterall panels are still far ahead in terms of overall realism and less colorations. Have a good one, RJ

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Guest Music monster

Magnapan has done an excellent job with all models in my opinion.the 30.7s being there flagship is in a league of its own, and compares or surpasses speakers many many times there price, what more could you ask from a company. Cheers to magnapan🍺🍺🍺. Gary the music monster 🎶

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Big Dog RJ said:

Ghostie, 

Agree on your points, no argument there. However, what I'm saying is through experience that others have had with their Maggies as well as myself, being a former Maggie dealer and owner; The majority of panels we sold, nearly every customer did some sort of upgrade / improvement on them, as they were speakers they were going to keep and not sell after a few years...

 

My good mate in Spore feels that the 20 series were their top line, with various iterations improved in each model, and now we have the 20.7. That's about as far as Magnepan have taken it. Then as you rightly pointed out they embarked on a project to re-introduced a multi-panel design, and developed the 30.7 taking certain aspects from the previous Tympani design.

 

Again that's about all they've reached. Further improvements could always be done with any speaker, not just Maggies... 

 

1. The point I'm trying to get across is that for this particular price range, which is far above the Maggie norm, they could have at least incorporated one of those improvements but they didn't. Instead only incremental improvements and frugal parts/quality upgrades. This to me is not a major step in design, and perhaps they were wanting to keep prices low as possible, fair enough. 

 

2. Therefore, why not introduce these improvements in a smaller version first, such as the 20.7 or 20.8 and then embark on an all out project, such as a 30.7/8 which will be a radical design, having a very high level of sonic mastering and performance, which it's not.

 

3. Obviously just looking at the size of the panels and comparing it to other Maggie models, this would certainly out-class them all. However, the question is by what margin and have Magnepan really utilized the best possible materials to take this design to an untouchable level? 

 

That question I already know by what I've heard. And to add to that, after listening to these on the Relentless amps, I can confirm they are well capable of doing remarkable things. I only hoped to gain more after it took so long to develop...

 

When I lived in the US for many years, I got to know a lot of high-end dealers, plus visited as many facilities as possible over the years, so I've been in touch directly with these people and have learned a great deal from their ongoing discussions at private gatherings, not on some planar asylum. Places I've visited, VTL, Manley Lab's, Krell, ML, Infinity, Magnepan, Genesis Advanced Technologies, Paradigm / Energy, AvantGarde, Gryphon, Nola Reference, YG Acoustics, Harbeth, B&W, Pass Labs, Carver Inc, even Bose, and my favourite of all, Conrad Johnson. Also a host of others I can't even remember... And Recently in Spore I've visited the dealerships for McIntosh, Magnepan, Alsyvox and ML, again all of whom I know personally over the decades... 

 

I'm certainly no expert and not stating here that anything is the "ultimate" or the "best" unlike others... What I'm saying is I certainly do know when something sounds right, and by that I'm referring to the following:

Coherency, speed, definition, transparency, "natural" tonality, and most of all "well balanced", not too much of anything. Other areas, such as imaging, soundstage depth and so on are quite apparent in virtually any high quality system, it's getting the balance and synergy right in order to reproduce the recording flawlessly or as closely as possible. 

 

Only a handful of systems can achieve this level by their owners carefully placing together a coherent system. In whatever shape size or form, when it sounds right you can tell straight away! 

 

Cheers to all, and enjoy your panels, afterall panels are still far ahead in terms of overall realism and less colorations. Have a good one, RJ

Big Dog,

 

My feeling as to why they introduced the 30.7s is due to the fact that the 20.7s was as far as they could take the system to a high level. Adding the DWM's raised it up a notch which as any maggie owner knows is NOT necessary when you can meet the demands of the bottom end with a  pair of subs.

 

In terms of the DWMs its my view that you could get a lot more out of them with the smaller maggie speakers as they would cover up to 200Hz. This becomes less of a requirement when dealing with multi panels as they already have that covered with the additional panels.

 

As far as parts is concerned again I am of the view that magnepan do things on the cheap out of commercial necessity. Thats not to say that this is the case with the 20.7s or 30.7s with regards to quality capacitors or inductors as I am sure they do meet a very good level BUT I do think that you can achieving amazing things with maggies by replacing the framework and certainly massive improvements are to be had with the use of quality stands. By the way I think you can do much cheaper and just as good as the purpose built mye stands.

 

Additionally, going active is something that the overwhelming majority of maggie owners do NOT do for a number of reasons.

Have you heard a maggie system that uses an active XO in lieu of the passive RJ? If not I would advise doing so. Of course this requires a good DSP and a lot of work in terms of leveling the speakers and addressing what order slopes you want to incorporate.

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Guest Music monster

What has martin Logan reached, I don’t think nothin much , there old statement speakers from the 90s are  better than the clx or any speakers in there current lineup. In my opinion martin Logan have taken a step back as well trying to keep there prices down. At least magnapans have a 30.7 which is the best speakers they have ever made.gary the music monster 🎶

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8 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Big Dog,

 

My feeling as to why they introduced the 30.7s is due to the fact that the 20.7s was as far as they could take the system to a high level. Adding the DWM's raised it up a notch which as any maggie owner knows is NOT necessary when you can meet the demands of the bottom end with a  pair of subs.

 

In terms of the DWMs its my view that you could get a lot more out of them with the smaller maggie speakers as they would cover up to 200Hz. This becomes less of a requirement when dealing with multi panels as they already have that covered with the additional panels.

 

As far as parts is concerned again I am of the view that magnepan do things on the cheap out of commercial necessity. Thats not to say that this is the case with the 20.7s or 30.7s with regards to quality capacitors or inductors as I am sure they do meet a very good level BUT I do think that you can achieving amazing things with maggies by replacing the framework and certainly massive improvements are to be had with the use of quality stands. By the way I think you can do much cheaper and just as good as the purpose built mye stands.

 

Additionally, going active is something that the overwhelming majority of maggie owners do NOT do for a number of reasons.

Have you heard a maggie system that uses an active XO in lieu of the passive RJ? If not I would advise doing so. Of course this requires a good DSP and a lot of work in terms of leveling the speakers and addressing what order slopes you want to incorporate.

I’m very happy with the build quality of my 30.7s. I don’t think there cheaply build at all. They use solid wood, nice grills and quality parts. Gary the music monster 🎶

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Guest Music monster

A lot of speaker companies take a step Back at times and bring out a new product claiming its the best they made ever, when it’s really not as good as the model it just replaced. Be aware. Gary the music monster 🎶

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Music monster said:

What has martin Logan reached, I don’t think nothin much , there old statement speakers from the 90s are  better than the clx or any speakers in there current lineup. In my opinion martin Logan have taken a step back as well trying to keep there prices down. At least magnapans have a 30.7 which is the best speakers they have ever made.gary the music monster 🎶

Clueless for someone who spends nearly an entire day listening to music, reading hi-fi mags and trusting reviewers... 

 

I suggest hop onto the ML site and see for yourself what the improvements are mate. The Statements are exactly what I'm talking about, where the ML team went all out and redesigned the Statements from their previous version. 

 

BTW have you ever heard a ML Statement system?

 

A few "minor" upgrades / improvements from ML along the way:

X-Stat design 

Carbon Alloys

Micro-perf stators

Blade technology frames

High grade Core transformers, along with High grade Caps & wiring.

DSP engines

Votjko digital filters and engineering

Vacuum bonded panels between the stator and mylar.

Heavily internally braced bass driver cabinets

Carbon alloy woofers

Rigid bolts and reinforced structures to minimise "flapping" of panels. 

ARC - Anthem room correction systems and the list goes on... 

 

What has ML done? Not much really... Mmm

Looks like a tiny bit, I guess

Edited by Big Dog RJ
Many reasons!

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