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Magnepan Owners & Discussion Thread

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On 05/10/2019 at 3:21 PM, Ara said:

Arvo Maggie lovers

 

Long time box speaker user here tempted by panels, seeking advice.  

 

Current set up is an Innuos Zen feeding an Oppo UDP205 feeding Duch & Duch 8c monitors.

 

What I love about this set up is few parts, many options and great off axis performance.

 

What I would like more of is bottom end heft, higher SPL (without the smell of burning voice coils) and tonal coherence.

 

The splinter in my mind that wont go away is the shape of an Innuous Zenith feeding a H2O Audio Fire preamp feeding a pair of H2O Audio M250SE monoblocks (500W into 4 ohms class D) feeding maggie 20.7's. Options include Rhythmic servo subs and Bi/Tri amping probably still with M250SE's however I know nothing about doing this and its relative merits.

 

Over to you...

 

Ara

 

2 hours ago, ghost4man said:

Go listen to a pair of well set up Maggie's. 

 

Try before you buy. 

 

As Ozzie says, Ara - you need to go listen to some.  :)  As you are in the Blue Mountains, I suggest the best thing to do is visit Bill McLean (the Oz Maggie importer) in Gosford.  Surely it's only a few hours drive, each way - you can take a packed lunch!  :lol:  Bill might even have his 20.7s up for sale as I know he's just bought the new top model - the 30.7.

 

I would think a pair of H2O Audio M250SEs should be able to drive any of the passive Maggies quite well (except possibly the new 30.7s - as they have 2 bass panels).

 

The "X.7" models are alike in having a 1st order series XO ... which means you can only use 1 amplifier channel per side.  So, in terms of your options:

  • a pair of Rythmik servo subs is easily added (many 20.7 owners use subs)
  • but, if you want to go 2-way or 3-way active, you need to remove (or bypass) the inbuilt passive XO and replace this with an active XO unit - such as a miniDSP or DEQX.  I've been running my Maggies 3-way active for almost 20 years; for the first 15 years or so, I used a 3-way analogue active XO - but about 3 years ago, when I added a pair of subs, I changed to using a miniDSP unit.
  • the beauty of a digital XO is that you can easily change slopes and roll-off points - and then instantly listen to the result, to decide which option you prefer.  :)

 

Good luck!  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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@Ara

Solid advice from Andy.

 

At this stage I would focus on just listening to what Bill has to offer in its generic state.

 

What Andy is talking about is really a long way down the track. Once you listen to them you will either fall 

in love with them straight away or decide its not for you.

 

For me, the moment I heard them I knew these were the speakers I wanted.

I now have 4 different sets.

 

You can - which is the detail that Andy goes through - make them sound even better with the modifications that

can be undertaken.

 

It is a constant source of amazement to me how well they sound given the commercial approach that Magnepan has to its 

construction - read cheap.

 

Cheers.

Ozzie

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14 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

@Ara

Solid advice from Andy.

 

At this stage I would focus on just listening to what Bill has to offer in its generic state.

 

What Andy is talking about is really a long way down the track. Once you listen to them you will either fall 

in love with them straight away or decide its not for you.

 

For me, the moment I heard them I knew these were the speakers I wanted.

I now have 4 different sets.

 

You can - which is the detail that Andy goes through - make them sound even better with the modifications that

can be undertaken.

 

It is a constant source of amazement to me how well they sound given the commercial approach that Magnepan has to its 

construction - read cheap.

 

Cheers.

Ozzie

@Ara

 

Best you listen to them first, they are not for everyone.

 

(and yes I have owned a pair)

 

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Thank you for your comets gentlemen

 

I did visit Bill about a year ago to audition some Maggies and it was he who then proceeded to sell me the Dutch & Dutch 8c's. Sadly I don't think his shop lends itself to setting up the larger Maggies. I will as advised contact him again though as times do change.

 

Should any readers of my ramblings have a system they would like to show off I would be more than willing to listen and learn.

 

Ara 

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5 minutes ago, astormsau said:

What model were those Magnepans? I agree they sounded excellent.

Unbelievably, the 1.7s which cost less than 4k. Though in true Maggie style they proved they need good amplification and they had 10k worth of Nuprime power amps driving them.

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20 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Unbelievably, the 1.7s which cost less than 4k. Though in true Maggie style they proved they need good amplification and they had 10k worth of Nuprime power amps driving them.

And $2k of autoformers and $900 stands 

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1 minute ago, Hytram said:

And $2k of autoformers and $900 stands 

Ah I didn't know he was using autoformers. Which ones? Interesting. I saw the stands though.

Edited by Ittaku

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1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Ah I didn't know he was using autoformers. Which ones? Interesting. I saw the stands though.

 

There's only one I believe, Con - Paul Spelz autoformers.  They make 4 ohm speakers look like 8, 12 or 16 ohms to the amp (depending on the connection used).

 

No one took any pics of the stands!  :(

 

Andy

 

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40 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

There's only one I believe, Con - Paul Spelz autoformers.  They make 4 ohm speakers look like 8, 12 or 16 ohms to the amp (depending on the connection used).

 

No one took any pics of the stands!

Zeroformers then.

Edited by Ittaku

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1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Ah I didn't know he was using autoformers. Which ones? Interesting. I saw the stands though.

 

Bill mentioned them while doing his pre-demo talk, didnt say which brand but said they where worth $2k

 

so, they 'could' be these

 

http://www.mcleans.info/shop/productDetails.do?productId=264568

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2 minutes ago, Hytram said:

 

Bill mentioned them while doing his pre-demo talk, didnt say which brand but said they where worth $2k

 

so, they 'could' be these

 

http://www.mcleans.info/shop/productDetails.do?productId=264568

Interesting since this is the USD price direct, in case anyone was considering them. You may be able to get by with the naked (zero) ones for a lot less.

http://www.zeroimpedance.com/zeroimpedance_005.htm

 

Edited by Ittaku

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There's only one I believe, Con - Paul Spelz autoformers.  They make 4 ohm speakers look like 8, 12 or 16 ohms to the amp (depending on the connection used).
 
No one took any pics of the stands!  [emoji20]
 
Andy
 

Sorry Andy, I meant to take a picture of the stands.
Talking to Bill, he said the stands are much better finished than the Mye stands, and they did look very good. They hook over the top of the speaker and connect using the existing stand holes. Tilt adjustment done by adjustable spikes on each feet. He’s only having them made for the 1.7’s at present as they are the most popular model, but will cover the other models in time. Will have to get me a pair for my 1.7’s.
Pete.

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6 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Interesting since this is the USD price direct, in case anyone was considering them. You may be able to get by with the naked (zero) ones for a lot less.

http://www.zeroimpedance.com/zeroimpedance_005.htm

 

Con,

 

From memory Bill uses the Nuprime Evolution One mono's and the naked/anti cables for the autoformers.

I will pop into his store in the next couple of days to touch base and I will take some photos of the stands. I cant see any issues here

as there are a lot of us that resort to custom stands.

 

Ozzie

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7 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Interesting since this is the USD price direct, in case anyone was considering them. You may be able to get by with the naked (zero) ones for a lot less.

http://www.zeroimpedance.com/zeroimpedance_005.htm

 

I was curious, so I followed your link (thanks)   and it is quite interesting.  A product born out of the problem of driving these very low impedance speakers.   He has quite a lot to say, negatively, about speaker designers and their low impedance devices.:no:

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2 hours ago, March Audio said:

Judging from the feedback, the sales and the fact that on several occasions a bunch of people sat and listened to most of an album (Doug Mcloed was well liked) , probably OK 😝

 

Seriously though, the room had a massive boom which was a little challenging to get under control and the noise levels from other rooms didn't help, but of course these issues are to be expected and similar for many of the exhibitors. 

 

People were very interested in the Harbeth speakers we played, they do have a warmer sound than many. The show was overall very busy and surprisingly so on Friday.  Didn't have too much time to look around but I probably enjoyed the sound in the room opposite with the Maggies the most. 

Alan,

 

Once you go flat you can't go back :)

 

The irony in all this is that Bill swears by Class D so much so this is his go to choice of amplifier to run the maggies.

 

And he has tried a lot of different amps over the years.

 

Don't know much about the Nuprime Evo monos. That would be your domain to comment on.

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43 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Alan,

 

Once you go flat you can't go back :)

 

The irony in all this is that Bill swears by Class D so much so this is his go to choice of amplifier to run the maggies.

 

And he has tried a lot of different amps over the years.

 

Don't know much about the Nuprime Evo monos. That would be your domain to comment on.

:)

 

Well I think it's clear that class d has no issue with driving "difficult" speaker loads and sound as good as anything else out there. When I popped my head in early Saturday morning Bill did say the class d was excellent.  Its probably not appropriate for me to comment on the virtues of Nuprime V Hypex or Purifi. 

 

To my mind Bill's room was working very well, but it's a bit of a lottery with the room acoustics etc so I don't, and I wouldn't recommend anyone take their quick impressions at hifi shows too seriously.   There were some rooms I really didn't like but I wouldn't necessarily write them off as a result though as I understand the challenges involved. 

 

When we get back to WA (about another 1700km to go) I will post some room measurements made with REW just to show how bad the resonances and modes were. 

Edited by March Audio

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25 minutes ago, March Audio said:

:)

 

Well I think it's clear that class d has no issue with driving "difficult" speaker loads and sound as good as anything else out there. When I popped my head in early Saturday morning Bill did say the class d was excellent.  Its probably not appropriate for me to comment on the virtues of Nuprime V Hypex or Purifi. 

 

To my mind Bill's room was working very well, but it's a bit of a lottery with the room acoustics etc so I don't, and I wouldn't recommend anyone take their quick impressions at hifi shows too seriously.   There were some rooms I really didn't like but I wouldn't necessarily write them off as a result though as I understand the challenges involved. 

 

When we get back to WA (about another 1700km to go) I will post some room measurements made with REW just to show how bad the resonances and modes were. 

At the risk of being accused of maggie bias it appears from a number or responses that the maggies played very very well.

 

Alan, I know that Bill replaced his BHKs for the Nuprime Evo's so that must say something.

I dont think there has ever been an issue with regards to Class D driving maggies. There has been speculation as to their ability to

drive them well.

My gut feeling is having heard the Evo's is that they do a damn good job.

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17 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

At the risk of being accused of maggie bias it appears from a number or responses that the maggies played very very well.

 

Alan, I know that Bill replaced his BHKs for the Nuprime Evo's so that must say something.

I dont think there has ever been an issue with regards to Class D driving maggies. There has been speculation as to their ability to

drive them well.

My gut feeling is having heard the Evo's is that they do a damn good job.

The Evos are $11k amplifiers, and they were still running through autoformers to increase the impedance they were seeing to drive them so it's not quite that simple...

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4 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

The Evos are $11k amplifiers, and they were still running through autoformers to increase the impedance they were seeing to drive them so it's not quite that simple...

Bill did the same with 25k BHK mono's.

I heard them run with and without the autoformers. It wasn't overly apparent to my ears at any rate that they made a difference if any.

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5 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Bill did the same with 25k BHK mono's.

Reviews even of the .7 Maggies still say the same - even cheaper speakers but amplification amplification amplification.

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22 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

The Evos are $11k amplifiers, and they were still running through autoformers to increase the impedance they were seeing to drive them so it's not quite that simple...

The price has no relevance to drive capability. What's the impedance curve of the 0.7?  The transformer is probably not required for those reasons. 

Edited by March Audio

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The price has no relevance to drive capability. What's the impedance curve of the 0.7?  The transformer is probably not required for those reasons. 

Here’s the impedance curve for the Maggie 1.7s, nominally 4ohm but dip below 2ohm in the hf’s
IMG_1526.jpg

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3 hours ago, March Audio said:

:)

 

Well I think it's clear that class d has no issue with driving "difficult" speaker loads and sound as good as anything else out there. When I popped my head in early Saturday morning Bill did say the class d was excellent.  Its probably not appropriate for me to comment on the virtues of Nuprime V Hypex or Purifi. 

 

To my mind Bill's room was working very well, but it's a bit of a lottery with the room acoustics etc so I don't, and I wouldn't recommend anyone take their quick impressions at hifi shows too seriously.   There were some rooms I really didn't like but I wouldn't necessarily write them off as a result though as I understand the challenges involved. 

 

When we get back to WA (about another 1700km to go) I will post some room measurements made with REW just to show how bad the resonances and modes were. 

I’m sorry Allen,

 

let me disagree with you on room acoustics...

 

Every HIFI show where the 1.7 have shown up,  regardless of room size and amplification, the 1.7 regardless of which  versions it was,  Bill has always made them sound impressive and a highlight where you don’t have to spend mega dollars to achieve high quality sound that agrees...  one of the bonus of Magnaplanars....   Bills had then in a room the size of a bathroom and the 1.7 still shine, he’s had them in the huge conference room and it’s no different.

 

FWIW  hotel rooms are no different to any other rooms, in most cases can be just as good if not better if you are using a room with hard surface .  Most Hotel rooms are carpeted with cloth curtains.

you can take whatever measurement you want and show how bad the resonance were,  but if it sounds bad here it’s gonna sound bad anywhere, or there is something inherently technically wrong with the gear on the day.

 

 

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Let’s also be clear that the the 1.7 and 0.7 are totally different beast,   They are not the same, very different in size where the 0.7 a 2 way and the 1.7 are a 3 way and either have different X0 components and arrangements.

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