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Magnepan Owners & Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, Big Dog RJ said:

Maybe, but he still has the CLX's as his main reference for stats. 

 

The last time I listened to a MG20.7 system in NSW was awful. Not because of the planar ribbons, which I think are wonderful speakers for the value, rather there were issues with the ribbons which the owner wasn't even aware of....

1. Twisted tweeter element, means the tweeter needs to be changed asap! The tweeter must remain straight all the way from top to bottom. 

2. Mid-range fuses blown, didn't even know... 

3. Left channel tweeter blown, very very small break in the middle, unnoticeable unless you blew into the tweeter.

4. The tube preamp he was using had old tubes that needed changing. No sparkle, no transients, no realism. 

 

I showed him these flaws and he thanked me for it. I've come across numerous systems like these where the owners themselves were not aware of something had gone wrong because they're so used to their usual sound, they need a different set of golden ears to figure it out. 

 

Points noted in your post, and yes I'm aware that JV uses the 30.7, good for him! 

Cheers mate, and enjoy the music. 

RJ 

RJ, 

 

With respect but how could the owner possibly not hear these problems?? 

 

If he didn't then I would suggest he has bigger problems then damaged drivers. 

 

Its very easy to pick up on issues in Maggie systems. They tend to be brutal in how revealing they are. 

 

I think Peter's impressions of the 20.7s in Bills shop is unsurprising. It's not actually what I would call room friendly for that speaker. 

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I know mate, this is the thing I just fathom... 

Sometimes they're so into it and lost... They don't realize the issues and these are the most simple to fix! The chap who I helped in Sydney actually cried when I helped him out. 

 

If Bill Mac is the main importer and his room is not up-to pat, I wonder at times whether he's the right person to represent Magnepan. 

 

When John had his Quads ESL2905 he was driving them with an ARC Ref75 and it sounded wonderful! After he went through the same Quad disaster as I did, he changed over to the MG3.7i. The ARCref75 couldn't drive the Maggie's effectively hence he changed over to the Magtech amp and it sounds very very good! 

 

In all the issues I've had with Maggie's, and other ribbons, no matter what, Maggie's will always be my all time favorite ribbon transducer. They are simply outstanding in value, nothing can touch them and they are built with a purpose, to reproduce the best in natural recordings. 

 

Others such as Analysis Ribbons, and Apogee's are above in performance but they are a pain in the butt to get going and maintain in the long run. 

 

Now that I'm using CLX's which were my dream speakers, I've finally achieved that! But it sure wasn't an easy ride... Very expensive and time consuming to get a pair but at least now I can sit back and enjoy what matters most, the music! These are my final speakers, although perhaps as a second system, I really wouldn't mind a nice pair of MG3.7i's.

 

I think when Gary finally gets his pair of 1.7i's, with proper set up and careful placement, he should find these ribbons quite amazing. I would hope... 

Cheers to all, and enjoy those panels! 

RJ  

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7 minutes ago, Big Dog RJ said:

I think when Gary finally gets his pair of 1.7i's, with proper set up and careful placement, he should find these ribbons quite amazing. I would hope... 

Cheers to all, and enjoy those panels! 

RJ  

 

Now, now, RJ - you seem to have entered the Magnepan "PR alternate universe".  Magnepan made their name as a hi-end spkr mfr (albeit at a 'non hi-end' price) when they introduced the true ribbon - which I think happened with the MG-III.  The 5'-long Maggie true-ribbon is, as you say, a wonderful transducer - but it should never be confused with their "quasi-ribbon" drivers ... which are merely Al foil stuck to a mylar sheet.

 

The way I see it - Magnepan called this technology "quasi ribbon" so they could trade off the public's acceptance of the true-ribbon as a special transducer.  This confused the public - so Maggies which use quasi-ribbon construction get called "ribbon speakers"!  :(

 

1.7s are not - IMO, anyway - "ribbon speakers"; they employ Al-foil-on-mylar.  They are planar magnetic speakers ... with the drivers consisting of 1/8" Al foil glued to a mylar sheet.  Their tweeter is not a true-ribbon ... hence they don't do the top end like true-ribbon Maggies can.  You have to go up to at least the 3.7, to get a true-ribbon tweeter.

 

Andy

 

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33 minutes ago, Big Dog RJ said:

...Now that I'm using CLX's which were my dream speakers, I've finally achieved that! But it sure wasn't an easy ride... Very expensive and time consuming to get a pair but at least now I can sit back and enjoy what matters most, the music! These are my final speakers, although perhaps as a second system, I really wouldn't mind a nice pair of MG3.7i's....

Thanks for sharing your hard won experience RJ.  

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That's very true Andy, no doubt! 

 

Hence when I started with the MGIIIa back in 86, I knew straight away what Jim Whiney wanted to achieve and what he was onto. That sound as an initial experience was marvelous! Nothing could compare, even the much older Apogee's, like I said needed some hefty beef to even make them sneeze! But with Maggie's any tube amp with solid power supplies rated around the 70-100w mark could make Maggie's play beautiful music. I kept the CJ premier 11a for many years, went through various systems in and out over the years... Infinity's, Genesis, Wilson's, Quads, Paradigms, Martin Logan hybrids and some I can't even remember. Bi-amped, even tri-amped at one point but nothing was as pure as driving Maggie's full range with just a pair of high quality amplification or in stereo mode. 

The CLX's is a very long long journey of hardships and hard times, at one point I tend to wonder if it was worth it... 

 

At least now I'm enjoying the music once again. 

 

I strongly believe that Gary did not get to experience the full potential of Maggie's and what a true ribbon tweeter can do. It's S shame the 20.7's were not up-to his expectations. I'm hoping that he will find his second pair of speakers soon. 

 

Cheers to all, RJ 

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3 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Now, now, RJ - you seem to have entered the Magnepan "PR alternate universe".  Magnepan made their name as a hi-end spkr mfr (albeit at a 'non hi-end' price) when they introduced the true ribbon - which I think happened with the MG-III.  The 5'-long Maggie true-ribbon is, as you say, a wonderful transducer - but it should never be confused with their "quasi-ribbon" drivers ... which are merely Al foil stuck to a mylar sheet.

 

The way I see it - Magnepan called this technology "quasi ribbon" so they could trade off the public's acceptance of the true-ribbon as a special transducer.  This confused the public - so Maggies which use quasi-ribbon construction get called "ribbon speakers"!  :(

 

1.7s are not - IMO, anyway - "ribbon speakers"; they employ Al-foil-on-mylar.  They are planar magnetic speakers ... with the drivers consisting of 1/8" Al foil glued to a mylar sheet.  Their tweeter is not a true-ribbon ... hence they don't do the top end like true-ribbon Maggies can.  You have to go up to at least the 3.7, to get a true-ribbon tweeter.

 

Andy

 

Or pretty much any of the 3 series Maggie's which employed the TR Andy. Alternatively you could go back to the Tympani multi panels which to my mind remain the best, excluding the 30.7s of course. Just on the subject of the latest iteration it is a known fact that they are a return to the Tympanis which will guide you as to how good they are. Insert a TR onto one of these and you have something special. The amp to my mind is the key. 

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Damn.  Both my tweeters are gone.  Big Dog is right about the tweeters being delicate.  I wonder if I broke them by the overhead fans or whether that just conked out.  

 

This throws a whole lot of spanners in the works :(

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20 minutes ago, GroovyGuru said:

Damn.  Both my tweeters are gone.  Big Dog is right about the tweeters being delicate.  I wonder if I broke them by the overhead fans or whether that just conked out.  

 

This throws a whole lot of spanners in the works :(

That's pretty rough, are they twisted or are they teared?

Hope the fix isn't too painful, I know how hard you've worked to get your system where you want it.

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At least I respect the fact that you've admitted I was right, thanks for that.

 

As I said before, I've got the hands on experience with Maggie's since 86, and I've replaced tweeter ribbons over a dozen times. I can do the tweeter replacements with my eyes closed! 

 

I will say though, you have to be completely sober and have a very strong neck... Because after all the close bending over the tweeter element, this will cause a stiff neck after all the gluing in a zigzag format which the ribbon must be glued back on. You can also remove the entire tweeter element out and un-clip the positive / negative terminals, then lay the whole element on a flat bench, say a prayer and hope for the best! 

 

You can order the ribbon tweeter replacements kit from Bill, I think they cost around $200 or slightly more. It's been a few decades since I ordered a kit. Once replaced it's good to go for a few years, that's the beauty of Maggie's, they're quite durable, it's just the ribbon tweeters that are unbelievably fragile. 

 

Cheers to all and trust you've checked your tweeters and fuses.

Have a good one, RJ 

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Not to GruvyGuru, 

This can be easily fixed and once you get it going, it will be marvelous!

 

Just a thought, also check your tubes in your preamp... They may also require changing.

After you've fixed the tweeters and replaced tubes with fresh ones, those 20.7's should be SOTA! 

 

Let me know how it all goes, cheers RJ 

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Guest Gary janezic

Andy this explains why I didn’t like Peters’s 20.7s now I have intrest in them again but worry about the fragile tweeters in them. Regards gary.

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1 hour ago, GroovyGuru said:

Damn.  Both my tweeters are gone.  Big Dog is right about the tweeters being delicate.  I wonder if I broke them by the overhead fans or whether that just conked out.  

 

This throws a whole lot of spanners in the works :(

 

That's terrible, Peter!  :(

 

From my experience - when I found a ribbon blown, a few months after setting up my system in the new house - your ceiling fans may well be the culprit.  (In my case, I think it was a breeze from the open door near my RHS panels.)

 

If you want to come over, you can borrow the plastic pipe which I used to send my ribbons up to Bill.  The pair of them fit inside and there are end caps which you use duct tape to fix on each end.

 

Andy

 

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15 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

Andy this explains why I didn’t like Peters’s 20.7s now I have intrest in them again but worry about the fragile tweeters in them. Regards gary.

 

Yes they are fragile - but I've only had to replace ribbons twice ... in over 25 years of true-ribbon usage.

 

Andy

 

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I would actually like to learn how to do the repair of the ribbons.

 

It would be a useful skill to have.

They are a stupendously good tweeter when they work that much I know.

 

Checked my IIIAs and they definitely have a sag to them :)

 

 

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Guest Gary janezic

Was it easy or hard to do? Did you do it yourself?

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Guest Gary janezic

I don’t think I would be able to buy a pair because we have evaporated cooling this sucks all the air out to a window that’s open I think it will break the ribbons in the 30.7.😭

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13 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

I don’t think I would be able to buy a pair because we have evaporated cooling this sucks all the air out to a window that’s open I think it will break the ribbons in the 30.7.😭

Gary, it pays to be cautious mate but seriously I don't think you have to worry too much.

I have my IIIAs upstairs and my Tympani 1Ds with ribbons to them as well with windows open. I am not using the IIIAs upstairs at the minute so I leave the magnetic protective strip

to cover them until they get used.

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Guest Gary janezic

But do you have ducted evaporated cooling. It works buy sucking the air out of the rooms to a open widow.

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3 hours ago, Martykt said:

That's pretty rough, are they twisted or are they teared?

Hope the fix isn't too painful, I know how hard you've worked to get your system where you want it.

They are torn.  I have a bad feeling it's the overhead fans I use in summer.  

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You don't have to send the tweeter element for repairs, you can do this yourself. It will also help to learn how to do that in the future when it requires replacing, which it Will, you'll know exactly how. 

 

In the tweeter replacement kit, they also send along some spares for trial. This helps tremendously to get a feel of what you're dealing with. Trust me you WILL break these spares because that's the only way to learn. It allows you to know how much tension to pull the ribbons and how far to glue them in the zigzag recommended pattern. Just follow the instructions and you will get an idea of how to complete a proper tweeter replacement. 

 

At the end the tweeter MUST be tight and dead straight from top to bottom. 

Over the years of usage, you will begin to see sagging, then twisting, and finally break somewhere along either the middle or top ends. Sometimes it depends on how well the tweeter was originally placed, if the tech guy at the factory did an excellent job, then the tweeter will remain straight all the way for quite a while.

 

Magnepan does not tell you this upfront but after a few years of usage, the owner gets accustomed to it. Others move on, which is what I did...

 

Nonetheless they still represent the best value in highend.

Cheers, I'm off RJ 

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48 minutes ago, Big Dog RJ said:

You don't have to send the tweeter element for repairs, you can do this yourself. It will also help to learn how to do that in the future when it requires replacing, which it Will, you'll know exactly how. 

 

In the tweeter replacement kit, they also send along some spares for trial. This helps tremendously to get a feel of what you're dealing with. Trust me you WILL break these spares because that's the only way to learn. It allows you to know how much tension to pull the ribbons and how far to glue them in the zigzag recommended pattern. Just follow the instructions and you will get an idea of how to complete a proper tweeter replacement. 

 

At the end the tweeter MUST be tight and dead straight from top to bottom. 

Over the years of usage, you will begin to see sagging, then twisting, and finally break somewhere along either the middle or top ends. Sometimes it depends on how well the tweeter was originally placed, if the tech guy at the factory did an excellent job, then the tweeter will remain straight all the way for quite a while.

 

Magnepan does not tell you this upfront but after a few years of usage, the owner gets accustomed to it. Others move on, which is what I did...

 

Nonetheless they still represent the best value in highend.

Cheers, I'm off RJ 

I'm thinking I should buy a couple of repair kits off Bill and then Maggie owners have a GTG where @Big Dog RJ  shows us how to fix the tweeters :)

 

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@GroovyGuru

 

I'm thinking the same mate.

Perhaps time for a video of the work and upload to Youtube. 

I have not seen one for this type of handicraft.

Further, maybe a group buy if that is possible as shipping from Magnepan is LUDICROUS and therefore share the expense.

Ozzie

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G'day Maties, just got home bit late and saw your messages.

Yes agreed, and I'll be glad to do this for you, no problem at all. 

The only thing is I have three major issues:

1. As I've got only two days off, Sun & Mon, I need to spend this time I have with family.

2. I also need to come up with a good excuse to inform the wifey that I'm going to fix a "ribbon tweeter". She may think something else... 😤 perhaps going to buy another item of hifi.

3. Usually on these days off, I'm not sober. Couple of ciders, plus a few bottles of wine and all is well 😴

4. I might cry when I hold that delicate ribbon in my hand. It will bring back so many memories, good & bad. 

 

It is a marvel to even hold one, 1/10 of a human hair, it is mind boggling how such a delicate material can exert high frequency with precision and pure audio energy. Jim Whiney is a genius! 

 

The tweeter kit includes the full set up & materials for the tweeters. I used to order these directly from Minnesota. What are they charging now? 

What is Bill charging for the full kit?  

 

The other thing is you have to order the right kit that corresponds to the MG ribbon model you have. You can't just order any kit. 

Let me know what the plan is and I'll try to work something out. Always happy to help fellow panel type fanatics!

 

Not too sure why this is not on video, perhaps it was and Maggie deleted them so as not to cause panic at the disco!

Don't know... 

Bye for now, off to 😴

RJ 

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Guys I could be wrong but buying direct off Magnepan could perhaps be the cheaper option. 

 

I would be interested as I said before in a group buy to absorb the postage cost. 

 

Ozzie 

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Will Magnepan post a group purchase to different addresses?  It will be an onerous task for one person to collect payment, re-post kits around Australia and deal with any Custom inquiries.  Probably best to keep it simple and simply get a DIY fix done at the start.  But those who want a tweeter repair kit should list their models and I can see if a group purchase would be cheaper compared to buying a kit off Bill.   

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