Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Thanks mate my room is 5 buy 8 metre should be plenty I would think.yes the horns are massive this is my reference for pop and rock music,it gives me a very effortless punchey and dynamic sound hence 116 dB for 1 watt, it’s like sitting in front of a rock concert! But much better sound quality.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMax Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Thanks mate my room is 5 buy 8 metre should be plenty I would think.yes the horns are massive this is my reference for pop and rock music,it gives me a very effortless punchey and dynamic sound hence 116 dB for 1 watt, it’s like sitting in front of a rock concert! But much better sound quality.gary the music monster [emoji445] Looks very nice indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Thanks Gary the music monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Your right raj they are hard to drive ,my McIntosh mc452 drives them very well. Thanks and cheers. Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost4man Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Big Dog RJ said: So Ghostman, If I read correctly: you are questioning how tube power amps would drive Maggie's full range effectively... Correct? Well, that simply shows that you've actually not heard any of the 4-5 tube power amp combinations I have already mentioned! I will reiterate again! 1. VTL (apart from the heavy duty high powered reference series, I think GruvyGuru, Peter, mentioned that Rab has a pair of VTL MBL450's. Yes he does! I just saw them this arvo when I picked up my new RP8 TT). Now these big boys will drive any Maggie system effortlessly, they are superb monoblocks and very well designed with a "stiff power supply". Plenty of current/ capacitence and ample headroom, they won't flinch one bit! 2. ARC: the ones I've heard that had absolutely no issues driving ribbons full range: Ref150, Ref250, Ref75se, also some of the much older units, can't remember the exact models but were rated at 250w, 350w and above. Also The much older Ref series top of the line 600w monoblocks had no issues either T600 something series... 3. Manley labs: Manley snapper monoblocks, Manley 250 & Manley 500's, absolutely no sweat even driving much larger Apogee Diva's. 4. Melos (no longer in production) but I think these were the Gold 400 triodes. Drove my previous MG3.5/r with supreme control and finesse. One of our customer's could only afford the power amps at the time, hence the preamp was an Audio Note, which he purchased much later. This particular combination driving the MG3.5/r full range was one of the best at the time (99/2000). 5. CJ: premier 5 monoblocks, premier 8, 12, 11a, & premier 140. LP125m, 275m, 260m, ART monoblocks and the new ART300's. (have a look at any of these on their website, and look up the specs, they outclass nearly every SS ever built other than the very top end stuff. Apart from the above, you can also get in touch with Lew Johnson, now retired and taken over by Jeff Fischel, regarding CJ, you might learn a few things about true tube power and the way CJ designs its amplifiers. You can also get in contact with Eve Anna Manley, president of Manley Labs. She is a very nice person to talk to and meet with. Her motto "tubes rule! " She's so passionate about tubes, it's not even funny. She'll also tell you the many downsides of both topologies and at the end of the day, the true work horses... VTL: you can still contact Luke Manley, he's always up for a challenge between tubes and SS. And he'll never give up on tube power amplifiers, he's probably the most passionate from the lot! And loves demo's with his VTL gear and panels. Another marvelous combination. There's one more chap, who can still be contacted after so many decades, I'm still surprised he's very active in all his designs, and that is the legend himself, Bob Carver. He now has his own company, Carver Corp, produces two or three models: 120w, 180w & 300w monoblocks all tube design and still uses the famous KT88. The people who I've mentioned above are not your average person who are merely enthusiasts and have experienced a few things... Rather these are the owners of their work, the sole designers of their passion and the work of art they represent. Therefore, if you are ever in any doubt of what tube amplification can do, it's strengths in driving mids/highs but weakness in bass, and not being able to drive panels or difficult loads full range, just get in touch with any of the above, and be prepared to get a thunderous applause! Cheers mate and all the best, RJ Correct. If you know of any person who has used valves on the bottom end in an active system then please let me know. I know of none. That's not to say they can't drive them full range but how effective and how capable in the energy sapping end where even SS have been known to suffer is up for consideration. There's no doubt people use them on the mids and highs. There's also no doubt that people will use a valve pre to back up SS amps to get that valve - call it coloured if you will - sound. Full range is what I am talking about and playing music which is critically bottom heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Cheers to all.gary the music monster Edited June 1, 2019 by Music monster Update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMax Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 So you have a pair of 1.7s atm as well? How do you compare between the all 3 of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I did have them I traded them in on 30.7s.bought them to c how they sound in my room. Different speakers different sounds I like them all, it gives me a change in sound which is what I crave. I get sick of the same speakers no matter how good they are.a fresh sound change is important to me.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMax Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 So the pair at McLeans were yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I find it does not matter if you have the best speakers in the whole world, after a period of Six months or so it doesn’t sound as good as when it was fresh and new to your ears.your ears get used to the same sound and it begains to sound ordinary no matter how good the speakers are.people upgrade there speakers and there’s nothing wrong ,buy something new and think it’s better sometimes yes and no ,I have done this.when I take a break from my horns for a few months and go back to them it sounds fresh again and I enjoy them much more.i listen every day 4 to 6 hours So a different sound is critical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 No mine were cherry and black cloth I had them for only 2 weeks they were brand new and went back to bill.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Point source Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 OMG don’t care what it sounds like just beautiful to look at ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I think it looks better than what it sounds lol .gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Not everyone feels like you Gary. I had the same speakers I built for 20 years and was happy with them all that time. I'm trying to make my next pair for the next long haul as well. Perhaps building them myself made me feel that way though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Agree it’s not everyone but the ear does tier of hearing the same sound all the time.building your own speakers is an excellent idea if you know how to which I wouldn’t have a clue.gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog RJ Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Message to Ghostman: Ok I understand your point now. Yes, certainly agree that no "ordinary" tube amplifier is going to cut it, definitely not! However, the tube amps I have direct experience with and have listed in detail above, are not ordinary tube amps, they are built to very very high standards, stiff power supplies and stable power supplies. Premium parts used, massive EI-Core Frame transformers, not Toroids, along with high capacitance storage caps in series, top grade resistors, carefully selected triodes for voltage gain connected in parallel, then directly passed onto phase inverter/driver tubes, and then directly coupled to high powered output tubes, keeping the gain stage to a bear minimum of just one! Carefully selected output tubes for power and reliability (KT120, KT150 or 6550, and EL34's). These are "modern" high powered tube amps designed and built to drive non stop, no holds barred, they're not the average tube amp of yesterday that run out of puff... Apart from that, I've mentioned SS amps that are well capable of driving difficult loads, and my top three favs have always been: Pass Labs, McIntosh and Plinius. Very stable current and plenty of headroom, no issues with driving ribbons or stats full range. Which leads to my next point; Speaking of ribbons and maggie's, in fact they are not difficult to drive! The impedence swings from as high as 16 ohms down to around 2 ohms.This swing happens very fast, and many powerful amps are either too slow to react to such high demands in impedence, or they just cannot maintain the required current for longer periods. An amplifier with stable power supplies will be able to drive such ribbons full range as long as their power and current delivery remains consistent with such swings. Certain so called "high powered" devices fail and cannot cope with the demand for stable current to drive full range, hence they shut down or clip badly. Whereas full range stats are concerned, they are far more difficult to drive than ribbons. The impedence curve goes from as high as 20 ohms and drops in a blink of an eye to 0.7 ohms, that's less than 1 ohm! And this happens at lightning speed, hence causing havoc in power supplies. High powered tube amps with well designed power supplies love this sort of thing and drive stats with ease, creating a more dense effect on tone, a warmer open midrange, deep soundstage and pure musicality. These are traits of the KT88 & EL34's. Then add the KT120 or KT150, and you get all of that finesse, soundstage depth, palpable midrange, and wonderful musicality, along with added weight and perfect slam! to the full frequency spectrum. Just right, and not too over-powering or over-bearing like some SS deliver with harsh midrange and thumping bass, definitely not my taste but others may prefer this added thump. Maggies when first introduced were always tested and voiced side by side with ARC tube amps way back in the 70's and 80's. Magnepan always used ARC for nearly all their demos, along with CJ and VTL. As the decades passed, they tried out a few different configs with Bryston, McIntosh, Plinius, and so on, again those SS power amps with massive stable power supplies. Now it's basically a matter of personal taste, some enjoy their sound with a full config of SS high end, and some are truly delighted with all tube power. I certainly am! Not to worry mate, I think you're pretty safe using SS in the long run you don't have to deal with those typical tube issues: tube failure (although much rarer now...) biasing adjustments, tube replacements, and the bloody heat generated! defo not good for hot Melbourne! I have decided to use tubes for as long as I can walk up to the amps and do these necessary adjustments, when the time comes where I could barely do a decent squat at the gym, that's when I'm changing over to SS! Cheers and enjoy whichever you prefer, as long as you're enjoying your music. In the most natural way possible. RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 That’s the reason I don’t use tubes to much hassle. My ss McIntosh gives me that tube sound I love . Both have there strengths neither is better than the other..Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog RJ Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Well said. Yes Mac amps do have a certain refined warmth to them, with that added finesse and slam, which is critical to balance and not over-power the mids & highs. In fact when I was on my ultimate quest, 2 years ago, to find the best suitable amps to drive my CLX's, auditioned a whole range of amplifiers. The Mac range was the most interesting of the lot. Listened to the 1200w monoblocks, then the 601's, and finally the mc452. The mc452 had the perfect balance of nimbleness with dynamic impact in the full frequency from highs-mids-bass. Also, I noticed the mc452 manages to put out twice the current rating of the 601's, no wonder the 601's sounded sluggish to me. Others may differ but there's something just "right" about the whole presentation of the mc452 and the way it handles complex recordings. I even brought one home, partnered it with my previous CJ ACT2 reference preamp, it was a marvelous combination driving the Quads. However, the Quads didn't require that much power nor could they handle that much power in the first place. As I'm a tube lunatic, I focused on CJ as always, and ended up back with CJ amplification from pre-power. Also Quads and CJ are a magical sound, especially for late night listening... Just beautiful! Cheers Maties, RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog RJ Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Special message to Peter (groovyguru) I came across those beautiful VTL's at Rabs -cav. In fact I was half tempted! If you do ever get the chance to have some time just to check them out on your MG20.7's, I sincerely believe they will add more life and soul to your Maggie's. If you need a hand hauling them to your place and set up, I'd be overjoyed to assist! It will certainly bring back so many wonderful memories... Just a thought. Cheers mate, RJ Edited January 25, 2019 by Big Dog RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Check these monsters out.is that speaker cable.? Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drake Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Fellow panel lovers, I’m after some advice...or opinions. Since taking delivery of my Maggie 20.7’s, I’ve had my 20.1’s advertised but with little interest. So, I’m wondering if I should just keep them and use them for base panels with my 20.7’s? Is this a waste of time, destined to lead me down a path of frustration and compromise, OR has someone done something similar/same so can offer advice? Not exactly sure how I use just the base section of the 20.1’s to achieve this, so any suggestions welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 It will only spoil the sound in my opinion,if you want better bass upgrade to the 30,7s.they will give you bass like you have never herd before from Maggie’s,that’s what my friend who has herd a pair tells me. Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, The Drake said: Fellow panel lovers, I’m after some advice...or opinions. Since taking delivery of my Maggie 20.7’s, I’ve had my 20.1’s advertised but with little interest. So, I’m wondering if I should just keep them and use them for base panels with my 20.7’s? Is this a waste of time, destined to lead me down a path of frustration and compromise, OR has someone done something similar/same so can offer advice? Not exactly sure how I use just the base section of the 20.1’s to achieve this, so any suggestions welcome. I would suggest, as Gary did, that using just the bass panels of the 20.1s (which is easy enough to do) will not add much to your 20.7s. You would get much better bass (ie. lower and with more impact) by adding a pair of decent subs (you don't need to upgrade to 30.7s). @GroovyGuru can tell you how much better bass he has now, with a pair of new subs. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Music monster Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Agreed Andy I just fort he was after a better ribbon bass , subs will do a good job.dont think you would need them with the 30.7s . Gary the music monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog RJ Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Drake: How long has it been since you've placed the ad? Over a month or two? These things take time. You have to remember that these are big panels not the smaller series. Also, the typical person who wants a pair of MG20's must have three major things in order to "want" them: 1. A large room plus plenty of amplification to drive MG20's optimally. 2. An approval on the waf- not a lot of better havles would like two huge fabric doors sitting in the living room... 3. A reason to upgrade from an existing Maggie model. Regardless of what price you're asking, if the above three aspects are not in the bag, then I'm affraid you won't find the appropriate buyer. It also goes to show that although "we" clamour for such highend sound and large panels, when they are available for sale no one wants one... Which questions arise from our better havles, "do we really need them? " Not to worry mate, the appropriate buyer has to be out there. Speaking of "appropriate", this person must have a good knowledge in ribbon transducers, must have either used the smaller series before and someone who really appreciates what these marvelous panels are capable of. That "appropriate" type of person will take a while to seek. I remember way back in 2004 when I migrated to Aus, I sold off my entire stock; Maggie's, Infinity's, Quads, Paradigms, Dunlevey's, Energy, Avantgarde horns, VTL's, ARC, Manley & CJ gear the lot... The very last item, a pair of pristine Infinity Renaissance 90's in piano black gloss finish, was only sold in 2007, three years after! The chap who bought them was a bass player in a professional band. He understood what Infinity's were about and was looking for a pair since the 90's. He also bought my massive Manley reference 350 monoblocks, still has them to this day and loving it! Although been through numerous repairs... Not to worry the right person will come along slowly... In the mean time, just wrap them up well in their original packing. Look after them well enough to look and sound stunning when the time is right. Enjoy the 20.7's! Cheers, RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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