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Well my new Mcleans Maggie stands arrived yesterday, from Adelaide. Merry Christmas to me! A two box affair, total weight 30kg, these are not flimsy by any stretch and they are very well finish

Well, I had a bit of fun at McLeans earlier this week. I live in Norther NSW but had a job on in Lithgow. When I found out I had to drive back with a stopover somewhere I asked my company to book me a

I saw these on another site, apparently a DIY job.  They look very nice.            

That was a good read mate. Thanks for sharing the link.

 

I have an even deeper appreciation of my humble Maggie MMG now :)

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  • 5 years later...
Guest Gary janezic

Hi I am interested in magnapan speakers and like to know how they compare in sound quality to my klipschorns that I have.i love these but am looking for something with a much better quality sound hence my interest in magnapan 20,7 or 30,7 speakers. I know Magnepan won’t be as dynamic or as easy to drive but if they were of much higher sound quality I would buy a pair and have 2 different systems.any one out there who has herd both, I would appreciate feedback. Thanks 

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29 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

Hi I am interested in magnapan speakers and like to know how they compare in sound quality to my klipschorns that I have.i love these but am looking for something with a much better quality sound hence my interest in magnapan 20,7 or 30,7 speakers. I know Magnepan won’t be as dynamic or as easy to drive but if they were of much higher sound quality I would buy a pair and have 2 different systems.any one out there who has herd both, I would appreciate feedback. Thanks 

 

Welcome, Gary,

 

You won't be able to hear any 30.7s - I don't think there are any in the country yet.  However, Peter ( @GroovyGuru , in inner Melbourne, south) has a great-sounding pair of 20.7s.  Then there's also:

  • David ( @djb , in inner Melbourne, north) with a pair of restored Tympani 1-Ds
  • and moi - with my 3-way Frankenpans ... basically, Tympani IVas with only 1 bass panel (so I have a pair of 15" cone subs to compensate).  Also in inner Melbourne, south.

Listening to any one of these systems will give you a very good idea of what Maggie sound is all about.

 

The only point I would make though, is that to get the best out of these bigger Maggies ... you need to:

  • either have a powerful amp
  • or you actively bi- or tri- amp.

So what you're using with your Klipschorns will probably not be much good with Maggies.

Andy

 

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Guest Gary janezic

Hi Andy thanks very much for info. I am using McIntosh 452 power amp 450 Watts rms per channel.i bought this for my old pair of proac speakers now have klipschorns.i like the klipsch but looking for something different. Thanks gary 

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3 hours ago, Gary janezic said:

Hi Andy thanks very much for info. I am using McIntosh 452 power amp 450 Watts rms per channel.

 

Should be very nice with some Maggies!  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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4 hours ago, Gary janezic said:

Hi Andy thanks very much for info. I am using McIntosh 452 power amp 450 Watts rms per channel.

Should be a reasonably nice match for the maggies. It's my understanding the Maggies go down to 1 ohm in the treble range and the 452 is pretty good at delivering current and rated to 2ohm with their use of autoformers.

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1 hour ago, Gary janezic said:

Thanks Andy.do you think a room 15 feet wide and 25 deep would work with 30.7s going from what I read it’s fine.

 

Yes - as long as you understand there can be quite a bit of difference in SQ between "works with" and "sounds its best with".  :)

 

25' long is great - it's the 15' wide which could be a problem.  :(  Although if you look at the 3rd pic down in the link above - that's only a 15' wide room (so the article says) ... and the bass panels against the wall with the ribbons on the inside would certainly "work".  :)

 

The other approach is to have the 30.7s on the long wall - in which case you would have the ribbons on the outside.  This would give you a much wider sound stage ... the penalty is that you couldn't have them as far off the front wall.  (I have mine arranged this way - and my room is only 12' "deep".)

 

Andy

 

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Guest Gary janezic

I am to thinking 15 feet could be abit to narrow only if I had 2 more feet I would be very happy.anyway it will have to do.i am gonna listen to Peters 20,7s soon and decide from there which of the 2 models to get. Thanks Gary 

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Put them on the wide wall mate and well apart. The only problem with this is to-in but experience will overcome that.

If you cant do that, don't bother. Get a pair of LS3/5A's.

Edited by Wimbo
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Gary, 

 

I have 4 pairs of Maggies - Tympani 1Ds, MMGs, IIIAS and MGMCIs so if you are ever up on the Central Coast of NSW come and pop in. Incidentally I am 5 minutes away from Bill McLean's shop where you would purchase. 

 

I have heard Maggie's which sound unbelievable as well as one's which were very disappointing. Maggie's have a sound signature which once you fall in love with it, it is very difficult to go back to box speakers. 

 

You're amplifier should be good enough. The better the amplifier the better they sound. They are extremely room and position sensitive. 

 

Ozzie 

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Guest Gary janezic

Hi Ozzie thanks for the invite. Bill will set these up for me should I buy a pair.i am using klipschorns and lascalas in your opinion would the new Maggie’s 20.7 30.7 offer higher quality sound.i know they are very different speakers but that aside would Maggie’s be of a much higher quality sound.i will still keep the klipsch but want something different.gary.

 

 

 

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Maggie's are ribbon transducers, Klipsch are horns and some are horn loaded. Two different planets! 

 

With Maggie's it's all about stable current capabilimy, not so much watts. Power doesn't mean anything. I've tried numerous high powered amps that ran out of juice, simply because they cannot deliver stable current drive across the impedence curves of panels, such as ribbons and stats.

 

The MC452 is an excellent amplifier and will drive any of the Magneplanars well. I've personally heard the very same combination, MC452 driving a pair of MG20's, and it was quite marvelous indeed!

 

What you will get out of ribbon transducers are as follows:

1. Greater speed

2. Articulation in the bass, speed and agility in bass lines. 

3. Transparency and inner detail 

4. Extended highs, the tweeter ribbons are capable of exceeding 40kHz.

5. Added depth and dimensional spacing in the soundstage. This will probably be the most profound attribute, where the height, weight and scale is of "the absolute Sound".

 

These are the main 5 attributes you will receive with the Maggie's. Remember that after a while (few years, typically 3-5) the tweeter ribbon elements requires replacing simply because the speed and agility at which the ribbon moves is so great, at one point in time it will give way. 

 

You can easily purchase tweeter ribbon kits available from your Magnepan dealer or you can order through Magnepan direct.

I do know of a few people who have had there ribbons last for quite a while before replacing, and others who have replaced tweeters within a couple years. I had many iterations of Maggie's, starting with:

MGIIIa, MG3.3/r, MG3.5/r, MG3.6/r & the MG20. This was just before we acquired the Apogee Diva's. These Maggie's were all driven with CJ monoblocks, Premier 8A with the ART preamp. The other brand of monoblocks I used were the big Manley 350 reference series, all tube designed and we're superb driving ribbons. All of the Maggie's tweeters were replaced around the same time, other than the MG3.6 & MG20, because they were sold off before any replacement was required. 

It also depends on how loud you listen and extended periods, and how hard you drive the speakers. If you're careful enough, you can get many years of trouble free operation with the tweeters.

 

It's truly amazing to observe the tweeter ribbon element moving in free space according to the audio signal, that speed is marvelous!

 

Maggie's are also superb in musicality and the higher up the model, the greater the resolution. They also offer the greatest value for money that you can have from a panel type speaker. They can very easily compete with the best out there and once you're hooked, I sincerely don't think you would retain the Klipsch... Just my 50cts. 

Hope that helps a bit.

Cheers, RJ 

Edited by Big Dog RJ
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You need to arrange to listen to a set of Maggie’s before you proceed. Contact s member of the flat panel society to arrange an audience.

Given you large room @GroovyGuru might be the best option 

I too expect the wide wall would be the best placement.

 

@andyr and I @djb have large older speakers in small rooms utilizing active minidsp cross overs.I suspect you will eventually want 2 powerful amps in a room that size. 

The tymphany 1-D from the late 60s early 70s has 6 panels.

I am currently enhancing the bass panels with Heil air motion tweeters avoiding the fragility of true ribbons .solots of variations.

Many ppl walk away after listening to Maggie’s as they cant/won’t give up the dynamic range they currently have in place

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22 hours ago, Wimbo said:

Put them on the wide wall mate and well apart. The only problem with this is to-in but experience will overcome that.

 

Why is toe-in a problem in the long-wall scenario, W? 

 

Andy

 

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In order to start off with Maggie's, just to experience what they're capable of, I would advise the smaller series first and then later on, if it's required, aim towards the MG20 series, rather than dive straight into the MG20.

 

The model that I've listened to date and in my experience beats an array of highend contenders is the MG3.7i. This series will also match superbly well with the MC452. My good mate, John Hall (repair guru of Quad stats) has a pair, driven by a powerful Magtec amp designed by Roger Sanders. Superb combination!

 

Once you get a feel of the MG3 series, you will begin to understand the Magneplanars abilities and the philosophy of Magnepan, the company that builds Maggie's in Minnesota USA. The founder and chief designer, Jim Whiney, is no longer around on our little blue planet but he was an absolute genius with "true ribbon" transducer technology.

 

If I didn't have the means and for my luck the special trade-in deal I got for my Ethos stats, which helped me to acquire the CLX's, it would have been the MG3.7i, no doubt! 

 

Also tubes sound very life like with Maggie's, and especially Conrad Johnson amps, which I've been using for nearly three decades. However, that's a totally different equation and certainly not everyone's preference...

 

As forum members have suggested that you first listen to a system with Maggie's in a private home that is properly set up, it will be very different when trying to gauge what ribbons sound like. Demo's are the worst unless again optimally placed with the right kind of amplification to drive them. 

 

All the best and do let us know how it all goes. Cheers, RJ 

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12 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Why is toe-in a problem in the long-wall scenario, W? 

 

Andy

 

Hole in the middle effect Andy. If they are too far apart they may not integrate properly.

 

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12 hours ago, djb said:

Many ppl walk away after listening to Maggie’s as they cant/won’t give up the dynamic range they currently have in place

Indeed, which is exactly how my experience went with listening to them. However, there were still aspects to their lovely sound I heard from Andy's setup which were very seductive and made me approach my own speaker building very differently. Going open baffle only goes partway to recreating the sound, as there is magic in their sound beyond them simply being a dipole.

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1 hour ago, Wimbo said:

Hole in the middle effect Andy. If they are too far apart they may not integrate properly.

 

Sure, W - but I would suggest the 'hole in the middle' comes from having them too far apart, compared to your distance to the plane of the speakers (so shallower than an equilateral triangle), irrespective of whether the panels are toed-in ... or not?

 

Andy

 

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On 24/11/2018 at 2:07 PM, Gary janezic said:

I would buy a pair and have 2 different systems.

If I could have two different systems they would be one panel system and one horn system. Heaven !

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On 24/11/2018 at 8:28 PM, Gary janezic said:

I am to thinking 15 feet could be abit to narrow only if I had 2 more feet I would be very happy.anyway it will have to do.i am gonna listen to Peters 20,7s soon and decide from there which of the 2 models to get. Thanks Gary 

My room is 15ft wide and the 20.7’s sound great. It does however require tweaking with position but that is the same with any speaker. 

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3 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Sure, W - but I would suggest the 'hole in the middle' comes from having them too far apart, compared to your distance to the plane of the speakers (so shallower than an equilateral triangle), irrespective of whether the panels are toed-in ... or not?

 

Andy

 

Toe in can fix or focus the middle soundstage more accurately. It can never fix speakers that are too far apart, I agree. I should of tuned my answer relative to all wide walls, not just one that is 25' long.

Also, my experience is only with 3A's and 2.5R's. Not multi panels as what you, @djb and @ghost4man have.

Edited by Wimbo
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Guest Gary janezic
On 25/11/2018 at 4:25 AM, Big Dog RJ said:

Maggie's are ribbon transducers, Klipsch are horns and some are horn loaded. Two different planets! 

 

With Maggie's it's all about stable current capabilimy, not so much watts. Power doesn't mean anything. I've tried numerous high powered amps that ran out of juice, simply because they cannot deliver stable current drive across the impedence curves of panels, such as ribbons and stats.

 

The MC452 is an excellent amplifier and will drive any of the Magneplanars well. I've personally heard the very same combination, MC452 driving a pair of MG20's, and it was quite marvelous indeed!

 

What you will get out of ribbon transducers are as follows:

1. Greater speed

2. Articulation in the bass, speed and agility in bass lines. 

3. Transparency and inner detail 

4. Extended highs, the tweeter ribbons are capable of exceeding 40kHz.

5. Added depth and dimensional spacing in the soundstage. This will probably be the most profound attribute, where the height, weight and scale is of "the absolute Sound".

 

These are the main 5 attributes you will receive with the Maggie's. Remember that after a while (few years, typically 3-5) the tweeter ribbon elements requires replacing simply because the speed and agility at which the ribbon moves is so great, at one point in time it will give way. 

 

You can easily purchase tweeter ribbon kits available from your Magnepan dealer or you can order through Magnepan direct.

I do know of a few people who have had there ribbons last for quite a while before replacing, and others who have replaced tweeters within a couple years. I had many iterations of Maggie's, starting with:

MGIIIa, MG3.3/r, MG3.5/r, MG3.6/r & the MG20. This was just before we acquired the Apogee Diva's. These Maggie's were all driven with CJ monoblocks, Premier 8A with the ART preamp. The other brand of monoblocks I used were the big Manley 350 reference series, all tube designed and we're superb driving ribbons. All of the Maggie's tweeters were replaced around the same time, other than the MG3.6 & MG20, because they were sold off before any replacement was required. 

It also depends on how loud you listen and extended periods, and how hard you drive the speakers. If you're careful enough, you can get many years of trouble free operation with the tweeters.

 

It's truly amazing to observe the tweeter ribbon element moving in free space according to the audio signal, that speed is marvelous!

 

Maggie's are also superb in musicality and the higher up the model, the greater the resolution. They also offer the greatest value for money that you can have from a panel type speaker. They can very easily compete with the best out there and once you're hooked, I sincerely don't think you would retain the Klipsch... Just my 50cts. 

Hope that helps a bit.

Cheers, RJ 

Hi rj thanks a lot for info.i had no idea that ribbon tweeters need replacement. I am looking for a different sound and it seems to me magnapans are the way to go.i want them more for classical and other light music keeping klipsch for pop and rock music.regards gary

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15 minutes ago, Gary janezic said:

i had no idea that ribbon tweeters need replacement

Only if they break.  I have never had to replace one.  Haven't even blown the fuse.

 

[Only guessing but...

when an amp clips there is lot of high frequency energy produced which may or may not be enough to damage the ribbon.  Magnepans are ridiculously insensitive (83dB/watt/meter at best) so amps need to be turned up to produce a reasonable listening level.  Also low impedance (<4ohm), so amps need to be capable on both counts.  If a problem is experienced, it may be with the amplifier over-exerting itself rather than the flimsy ribbon.  Maybe, perhaps.  Until it happens I wouldn't worry about it.]

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1 hour ago, Gary janezic said:

Hi rj thanks a lot for info.i had no idea that ribbon tweeters need replacement. I am looking for a different sound and it seems to me magnapans are the way to go.i want them more for classical and other light music keeping klipsch for pop and rock music.regards gary

Good thinking mate.

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1 hour ago, Gary janezic said:

Hi rj thanks a lot for info.i had no idea that ribbon tweeters need replacement. I am looking for a different sound and it seems to me magnapans are the way to go.i want them more for classical and other light music keeping klipsch for pop and rock music.regards gary

Interesting you say that. Having had panels and now having horns, I would say that if “classical” includes “orchestral” then you’ll enjoy it more on the horns (imho you need big dynamics and full-range for orchestral). 

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Guest Gary janezic

Thanks everybody for the feedback.yes I am a lover of horn speakers. I agree with big orchestra music horns are better. The magnapans would be for light classical music like string quartets.i am not after magnapans because I want to change my current horn speakers,rather I want them for a change in sound.regarding the ribbon tweeters I would not worry about them failing until it happens and with care I believe there should be no problems.i listen to all types of music and wanna be able to switch between speakers for a different experience.heres a image of my Horn speakers cheers to all audiophiles.EF7DE61E-59CE-4EBB-A9A3-F958C6F00DED.thumb.png.62664d31f2e27f07df2b7026ce90643a.pngspeakers 

 

 

 

 

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Just to add my perspective for you. 

 

Magnepan speakers offer ridiculous sonic quality when compared to other high end gear where you can pay ten times as much as you would for Maggie's. 

 

Maggie's ribbons do not necessarily need to be replaced on a regular level. Sorry, but that is just a myth. Where problems do occur is in the amplification or rather the lack of quality of power being delivered which can result in damage to the ribbons. 

 

Magnepan speakers are extremely sensitive to placement. Room is a big key in this. 

 

There is the perception that Maggie's are weak in the bottom end. I would argue that this is not completely true and I would also so that the overwhelming majority of audiophiles here regardless of speaker type incorporate a dedicated sub woofer into their system. 

 

Maggie's need power. More specifically they need current. Loads of it. And then some. Valve amps can work with them but I think SS is the preferred option. You will find that some Maggie owners will throw a valve pre to get that warm valve sound. To me that's another way of saying they want their sound coloured.

 

I personally prefer gear that leads to sound stage and imaging. 

 

Maggie's are built cheap. Ridiculously cheap. This means that they benefit from a rebuild with decent hardwood and metal stands to give them support. This applies to the XO setup as well. 

 

Maggie's have this beautiful air to the sound signature which I think is unbeatable. Once you fall for them it's difficult to go back. 

 

Just my view. 

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Guest Gary janezic

The centre box is electrovoice mth1 this gives me slam and dynamic punch that not even 2 pairs of lascals can do .they are buy themselves 108 dB efficiency.there not much buy themselves but in between 2 pairs of lasclas they work incredibley good.that magnapans offer a different sound to what I have now and considering there excellent value is what got me interested in them. I am used to a wall of sound and thinking the 30.7s will do that but sound completely different.thanks for all feedback.gary

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37 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Maggie's have this beautiful air to the sound signature which I think is unbeatable. Once you fall for them it's difficult to go back. 

 

Just my view. 

 

Spot on, Ozzie.  As they say in the classics - once you go flat ... you never go back:)

 

38 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Maggie's ribbons do not necessarily need to be replaced on a regular level. Sorry, but that is just a myth.

 

I think you mean "regular basis"?

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there - but it depends on how often and how loud you play them.  The aluminium foil does get stressed ... and will fail eventually.  And if you listen loud the "eventually" will happen sooner than if you listen quietly.  And my good friend "Peter Gunn" told me that he blew a ribbon when the panel fell off his workbench onto the floor!  :(

 

38 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Where problems do occur is in the amplification or rather the lack of quality of power being delivered which can result in damage to the ribbons.

 

Absolutely!  :thumb:

 

38 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Maggie's need power. More specifically they need current. Loads of it. And then some.

 

Indeed!  :thumb:

 

38 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Valve amps can work with them but I think SS is the preferred option.

 

I'm of this view too ... but big tube amps like VTL 'Wotans' can make them sound pretty amazing! :)

 

38 minutes ago, ghost4man said:

Maggie's are built cheap. Ridiculously cheap. This means that they benefit from a rebuild with decent hardwood and metal stands to give them support. This applies to the XO setup as well.

 

Amen, bro!  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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31 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Spot on, Ozzie.  As they say in the classics - once you go flat ... you never go back:)

 

 

I think you mean "regular basis"?

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there - but it depends on how often and how loud you play them.  The aluminium foil does get stressed ... and will fail eventually.  And if you listen loud the "eventually" will happen sooner than if you listen quietly.  And my good friend "Peter Gunn" told me that he blew a ribbon when the panel fell off his workbench onto the floor!  :(

 

 

Absolutely!  :thumb:

 

 

Indeed!  :thumb:

 

 

I'm of this view too ... but big tube amps like VTL 'Wotans' can make them sound pretty amazing! :)

 

 

Amen, bro!  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

Andy thank you for the correction - it was meant to be "basis".

I think the bigger concern with the ribbons is moving the panels around which can result in unnecessary exposure to air pressure.

Speaking to Bill Mclean about this a while ago, he was of the view that a solid amplifier should mitigate the risk for failure. There is no doubt that the ribbon will get stressed however. I am of the view that very little comes close to the ribbon tweeter for the money that you pay. It is absolutely lightning fast.

I have heard a lot of different speakers over the years and honestly nothing comes close to maggies with that wall of sound and just that "air". Its this very point I think that you have to listen to yourself to appreciate. And when it does work it is something special. I dont think I have heard another speaker yet that touches them for the voice elements. 

Thinking more about it, what I have noticed as well is that you can get the "lesser" models to work fantastically well in smaller rooms that rival the bigger panels providing you can get that amplifier right. The amp in any maggie setup is critical I feel.

To overcome this some of us have resorted to using weaker gear but in an active setup which works just as good if not better. I am inclined to think that active is the way to go. Yes it does require more amplifiers but the benefits outweigh the cost. 

 

Its hard to go back to those damn coffins I tell you.

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I've used Maggie's since 1986, several versions thereafter and each model up the chain was an improvement over the other. As time went by, nearly every model we had, except for the MG3.6 & 20, required tweeter replacements. So this is not a "myth" it is reality mate!

 

I must mention the following:

1. MGIIIa-  had the mid-range fuses blown on both panels when we took them as a trade in for Quads, purchased used. The previous owner was so deaf that he had no clue that both mid-range panels weren't working, Ha! 

 

2. MG3.3/r - had a blown tweeter element during the demo! I bought the pair as is, and did the tweeter replacements myself, with the help of our techie. 

 

3. MG3.5/r- used for a good period of two years, until one side tweeter blew, and the other started sagging... Hence, needed replacing anyway. Once they were replaced, all worked perfectly.

 

4. MG3.6- no issues, as this model was brand new and sold off to customer within the first week they arrived, after demoing with top of the line CJ amplification (premier 8A monoblocks-300w mono's, plus the ART preamp). 

 

5. MG20- again no issues, and sold off to the same customer who previously bought the MG3.6

 

So as you can clearly see, we've owned five different versions of Maggie's out of which three models required tweeter replacements. The tweeter replacements is NOT a big deal. It's quite normal for the technology and materials used to create the true ribbon line source. 

 

The true ribbon is only 1/10 of a human hair, virtually lighter than the air in front of it! At the speed and agility the ribbon element moves, as someone with first hand experience already commented, it will stress out at one point and has to give way. This is not a "quasi ribbon " where now Magnepan has incorporated into all their newer models. Therefore, the older panels all had the more natural ribbon tech, and a true ribbon for all tweeters, hence this is the price we pay for this madness. 

 

Now, Maggie's have evolved a long way, better materials, better crossovers, better internal parts, plus quasi ribbons in all their latest offerings. The tweeters still remain the same but are built slightly more rigid compared to the much older versions.

 

By the way I have also visited the factory in Minnesota, White Bear Lake. I've met with the design team and have been in touch with Anthony and Margaret Roush, who's daughter now works for the company, that's one full generation of employee's!

 

If it is a myth and not to be taken seriously, then you tell me why does Magnepan address the tweeter replacement procedure in all their user manuals?

Onto to you Mr. Ghost4man...

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