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blybo

Fasting, anybody done it?

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47 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

Doesn't sit well with me from a health perspective.

 

But It's the individuals choice, not mine.

What doesn’t, Keto or Carnivore? I’m no advocate for Carnivore. On Keto I’m eating more veggies than ever, but minimal fruit. The main thing I get cravings for now

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Guest Muon N'
10 minutes ago, blybo said:

What doesn’t, Keto or Carnivore? I’m no advocate for Carnivore. On Keto I’m eating more veggies than ever, but minimal fruit. The main thing I get cravings for now

Sorry, the Carnivore.

 

Personally I see a balanced diet with lean meat (small portions, preferably white meat) and lots of vegies, fruit, whole grains and nuts, combined with exercise and the better way. If this is not helping them I would consult a nutritionist, a good one.

If anything should be restricted It's meat IMO, people consume far to much protein in the average western diet.

 

I'm not qualified in anything and this is my personal view, although the too much protein aspect is supported by some international studies I looked at.

 

Edit: I need to practice following my own view, as I'm addicted to some junk foods and drinks *sigh*

Edited by Muon N'

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Protein is not the problem. Refined carbs and sugar are. As a species we have only eaten carbs for around 1500 years and since the late 70’s carb and sugar consumption has exploded. There is no mystery as to why we have an obesity and diabetes epidemic in western culture. We don’t eat the foods are ancestors did

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Unfortunately red meat just is not good for you.

Processed meat = cancer

Nobody is as upset about this as me.

My doctor now says "red meat once a month, white meat once a week" :(

 

 

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Guest Muon N'
2 hours ago, blybo said:

Protein is not the problem. Refined carbs and sugar are. As a species we have only eaten carbs for around 1500 years and since the late 70’s carb and sugar consumption has exploded. There is no mystery as to why we have an obesity and diabetes epidemic in western culture. We don’t eat the foods are ancestors did

Studies I looked at showed tumour incidence and growth to be proportionate to the amount of protein consumed, this was a study looking at groups of peoples the world over. The lowest incidence was shown in some African tribes that rarely ate meat and the bulk of their diet was vegetation.

 

Edit: though in some studies like this one, age may be a factor https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3988204/

 

Some more reading here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK216648/

 

Knowing that some cancers can be starved of nutrients and oxygen (not all, like with Pancreatic cancer) is something else to consider.

 

Nutrition is a complex subject IMO.

 

Edit2: When I mention Protein, I really should be saying Meat sourced Protein.

 

Edited by Muon N'

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12 hours ago, ols45 said:

Unfortunately red meat just is not good for you.

Processed meat = cancer

Nobody is as upset about this as me.

My doctor now says "red meat once a month, white meat once a week" :(

 

 

Change doctors

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Guest Muon N'
31 minutes ago, blybo said:

Change doctors

To one that agrees with you?

 

Why leave a good doctor?

 

Edit: it is likely his doctor keeps up with the latest research, unlike the bulk of GP's who are only educated by pharmaceutical rep's after their initial studies..

Edited by Muon N'

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14 hours ago, ols45 said:

Unfortunately red meat just is not good for you.

Processed meat = cancer

Nobody is as upset about this as me.

My doctor now says "red meat once a month, white meat once a week" :(

 

 

I'm sorry to have not previously provided any comment when i know so much about this and have much a lot of personal experience. Unfortunately just a lack of time with work/family (poor excuse i know!)

 

Anyway, in short the best quick advice i can give for increased health and longevity is to reduce the feeding window you eat in each day (6-8 hours) this is effectively intermittent fasting. It is also preferable to eat during daylight hours when our bodies circadian rhythm is in synch with processing foods, therefore dont eat after its dark and try and have several hours of no food before sleeping.

 

Regarding type of food to eat, low protein, low carb and high fat (good quality fat) is the way to go. Although vegeterianism was something i was briefing looking at doing, it is not the way to go. We need meat, but the key is this:

 

A diet based predominantly of in season, local organic plant based food

Lots of Good Quality fat

Low portions of quality protein (wild non farmed fish, organic grass fed and finished meat)

 

The notion of red meat not being good for you is correct generally. That's because the vast majority of people eat industrial meat which is carcinogenic, and something we should keep to a minimum. Grass fed and finished meat, like nature intended is an important and integral part of the diet in small amounts/portions.

 

I mostly intermittent fast every day (its been 3.5 years now), generally a 6-7 hour eating window which is very easy, and quite often i only eat 1 meal a day (dinner). I am also going to soon start combining a monthly 2 day fast where i only consume 300-600 calories per day for 48 hours to do a longer fast. The latest research is showing that having as little as 300 calories over the 2 days is more beneficial than a total water fast (mind you the composition of those calories is very important to help the benefit of the fast).

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As a healthy, mostly made-of-muscle Vegan, I obviously strongly disagree with any statement that meat is somehow necessary. I’m living proof that any animal derived product is certainly not needed in a productive human diet.

 

One can choose all kinds of things to put into one’s body, but let’s not fool ourselves that animal products are in any way a non-negotiable minimum.

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2 minutes ago, candyflip said:

As a healthy, mostly made-of-muscle Vegan, I obviously strongly disagree with any statement that meat is somehow necessary. I’m living proof that any animal derived product is certainly not needed in a productive human diet.

 

One can choose all kinds of things to put into one’s body, but let’s not fool ourselves that animal products are in any way a non-negotiable minimum.

No offence  intended in any way, but why do you feel, as a vegan that you have the right to judge other people's dietary and lifestyle choices?

As you well know there are many super fit and healthy omnivores.

I have zero problem with someone who chooses to be a vegan but I have huge problems with those who seek to evangelise it and trivialise the right of others to live their lives as they see fit and diet is obviously a large part of that.

 

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9 minutes ago, rantan said:

No offence  intended in any way, but why do you feel, as a vegan that you have the right to judge other people's dietary and lifestyle choices?

As you well know there are many super fit and healthy omnivores.

I have zero problem with someone who chooses to be a vegan but I have huge problems with those who seek to evangelise it and trivialise the right of others to live their lives as they see fit and diet is obviously a large part of that.

 

How am I doing that by simply pointing out that meat is not 'necessary' ?

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I think if you look at homo sapien dentition you'll find both molars and incisors suggesting we are designed for a omnivorous diet.  However it's up to the individual to decide what to fuel with.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, candyflip said:

How am I doing that by simply pointing out that meat is not 'necessary' ?

It is more of an implication of disapproval. There are sometimes nuances in what is not said.

 

Anyway, I have strong feelings on this and I imagine you do also, so I think it would be best if we don't enter into a religious debate where nothing said will benefit anybody. Live and let live, in mutual respect is my ethos.

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2 minutes ago, rantan said:

It is more of an implication of disapproval. There are sometimes nuances in what is not said.

 

Anyway, I have strong feelings on this and I imagine you do also, so I think it would be best if we don't enter into a religious debate where nothing said will benefit anybody. Live and let live, in mutual respect is my ethos.

Wow - you could not be more wrong. Seeing troubles in everything when there are clearly none is a recipe for heart ache?

 

The discussion was on meat and it’s necessity. Without quoting any individual from the thread (quite purposefuly), I countered simply that meat is proveably *not* a necessity (as I am living and breathing without it). That’s where it begins and ends for me in this thread.

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Just now, candyflip said:

Wow - you could not be more wrong. Seeing troubles in everything when there are clearly none is a recipe for heart ache?

 

The discussion was on meat and it’s necessity. Without quoting any individual from the thread (quite purposefuly), I countered simply that meat is proveably *not* a necessity (as I am living and breathing without it). That’s where it begins and ends for me in this thread.

Mate. I am not seeing troubles here and I did not intend to offend you. If I did , I apologise.

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2 minutes ago, rantan said:

Mate. I am not seeing troubles here and I did not intend to offend you. If I did , I apologise.

Zero offence.

Just argue the comments on their merits mate.

if you disagree that meat is not a necessity, let’s start another thread. ;)

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2 hours ago, candyflip said:

As a healthy, mostly made-of-muscle Vegan, I obviously strongly disagree with any statement that meat is somehow necessary. I’m living proof that any animal derived product is certainly not needed in a productive human diet.

 

One can choose all kinds of things to put into one’s body, but let’s not fool ourselves that animal products are in any way a non-negotiable minimum.

There is a difference between the necessary basics, and what is optimal. Everyone can do whatever suits them, i was very close to going vegan before swerving. Ultimately you do what suits you and your body, and you clearly have something that works well for you which is great.

 

You are very correct, meat is not a necessity.

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I lived for a while with a family that were pure vegetarian (note not vegans) 

 

my goodness I absolutely enjoyed their food(traditional indian) ! I didn't miss meat for entire time stayed with them

 

but I can also say with all honesty ... having a slice of ham...or hamburger after that time was like going to heaven :D 

 

no meat is not a necessity... but it can also be YUM :D  and very important part of diet for some hehe 

 

note as such we dont eat a lot of meat. some weeks will go by without red meat. we are trying to do fish once a week at least...chicken or ham/small goods though often get involved....

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Guest Muon N'

The best I ever felt was for a period where I only had the option of a non meat diet, vegetarian.

 

Wish I could gather the fortitude to do so again.

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1 hour ago, betty boop said:

I lived for a while with a family that were pure vegetarian (note not vegans) 

 

my goodness I absolutely enjoyed their food(traditional indian) ! I didn't miss meat for entire time stayed with them

 

but I can also say with all honesty ... having a slice of ham...or hamburger after that time was like going to heaven :D 

 

no meat is not a necessity... but it can also be YUM :D  and very important part of diet for some hehe 

 

note as such we dont eat a lot of meat. some weeks will go by without red meat. we are trying to do fish once a week at least...chicken or ham/small goods though often get involved....

Indian vegetarian at its best is one of my favourite cuisines and I could happily live on it. Quite a few million Indians seem to manage. Have to draw the line at veganism though - where would Indian food be without ghee and yoghurt? I’d have to say there aren’t that many really good Indian restaurants around my way though I suspect with increased Indian migration that will change. 

 

I started the 5/2 diet after Xmas but had to give up for a couple of weeks with visitors staying with us. 5 days normal eating, 2 days under 600 cals. Not too difficult actually. The first 2 fast days did my head in and all I could think of was bread, but I’ve got it pretty well sorted now and don’t find it too tough. Mainly need to keep away  from the carbs and fats and eat loads of veggies.  Evening meal on fast days is veggie curry and cauliflower rice. 

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7 hours ago, candyflip said:

As a healthy, mostly made-of-muscle Vegan, I obviously strongly disagree with any statement that meat is somehow necessary. I’m living proof that any animal derived product is certainly not needed in a productive human diet.

 

One can choose all kinds of things to put into one’s body, but let’s not fool ourselves that animal products are in any way a non-negotiable minimum.

As a certified omnivore I can still agree with you. My daughter studied animal science in Uni and that pretty much made her a vego. Her choice was made more out of a reluctance to contribute to the cruel farming methods and simply killing an animal to eat.

7 hours ago, Rocketfrogs said:

I think if you look at homo sapien dentition you'll find both molars and incisors suggesting we are designed for a omnivorous diet

 

The teeth thing is a old wives tale at best. As are a lot of the reasons meat eaters put up. I have simply accepted I am a hypocrite. I have stopped eating pork because it is in many cases a particularly cruel method of farming but I respect those who give up all meat. And I envy their good health.

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21 hours ago, buddyev said:

where would Indian food be without ghee and yoghurt? 

Only the northerners use ghee and yoghurt...(as they want to 'tame' the spices....)

 

It's all coconut cream below Mason-Dixon line....where only the brave ventures....😀

Edited by pulinap

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Guest Muon N'
7 hours ago, Rocketfrogs said:

I think if you look at homo sapien dentition you'll find both molars and incisors suggesting we are designed for a omnivorous diet.  However it's up to the individual to decide what to fuel with.

 

 

Originally we were herbivores predominantly, meat eating came later.

 

Edit: this likely came about as it means of better survival odds when and where food sources would/had become limited for one reason or another. Just because we have too long a gut to be carnivore, and too short to be herbivore, doesn't mean meat is automatically the health choice.

Edited by Muon N'

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Been nearly five years on 5:2 following Mosely BBC doco. Also chucked obvious sugar. 
Lost initially 25 kg and now maintain a steady weight. All things improved > BP, Blood sugar, general feeling of wellbeing.
It's a way of life.
Enjoy food and on fasting days have just the evening meal.

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12 hours ago, pulinap said:

Only the northerners use ghee and yoghurt...(as they want to 'tame' the spices....)

 

It's all coconut cream below Mason-Dixon line....where only the brave venture....😀

Yes,  southerners do nice things with coconuts. 

Edited by buddyev

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