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blybo

Fasting, anybody done it?

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Thanks for that. Interesting. I was on the Precision Nutrition list for quite a while a number of years ago. It has certainly grown.

 

I was also aware that severe calorie restriction is not viable for the long run. Do you know if the original work was about severe restriction or any restriction?

 

I did try the Mosely-researched 5 & 2 but found the results tapered off fairly quickly. I know that most successful fat loss/maintenance regimes have some time of more "normal" eating built-in. This sounds like the intermittent fasting.

 

Keeping the body in fat-burning mode (ketosis) for a good while every day has always been the most successful for me--I never 'suffered' from missing breakfast. That and limited carb (although not really low carb) seems to add to the fat loss. My trouble is I'm a good cook and am 'addicted' to beautiful carbs!

 

Sigh--time to stop baking again--my weight has been creeping up lately.

 

I hope you have success.

 

(I'm reminded of Mark Twain--"Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it hundreds of times.")

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On 20/11/2018 at 10:09 AM, blybo said:

I'd love to hear if anybody else has tried it, and how they went, what helped, what didn't.

Yes... it works.... the biggest things I could suggest, is start slowly, practise, drink lots of water.

 

Lengthening the time between dinner and breakfast ... and going a day or 2 without each week/fortnight, whatever .....  is how we evolved, and very very good for you.

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16 hours ago, GregWormald said:

Keeping the body in fat-burning mode (ketosis) for a good while every day has always been the most successful for me--I never 'suffered' from missing breakfast. That and limited carb (although not really low carb) seems to add to the fat loss. My trouble is I'm a good cook and am 'addicted' to beautiful carbs!

Unless I misunderstand it, if you are eating carbs or sugars, you build up glycogen again and take yourself out of Ketosis. It can take 36-48 hours to get back there again. From my research the intermittent fasting appears to give similar results, without ketosis actually occurring. If you were to fast AND follow a keytosis diet I would expect double the benefit.

 

My wife's friend who is doing the fasting is doing it in conjunction with a ketosis diet.

 

Surprisingly in the videos I've watched, there has been very little spoken about what should be eaten in your daily "eating window", all the focus seems to be on making the fast as long as possible. For myself, I think aiming to cut out breakfast each weekday is easily achievable, perhaps skipping lunch on 1 of those days as well.

54 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Yes... it works.... the biggest things I could suggest, is start slowly, practise, drink lots of water.

Drank a heap of water and tea yesterday. I'm not really a tea drinker but don't mind it and nice to get some taste. Finding it hard to get used to a double ristretto with no sugar...😣

 

I drink (or used to drink) heaps of Diet Coke and the channel I've subscribed to has said it is okay during a fast as it does not give an insulin response. They do say get off it ASAP which I will, but I've got a carton of cans in my office so limit myself to 1 a day till they are gone. I've ordered some sachet green tea crystals which can be added to cold water without breaking the fast. These will be good for me when I'm out and about.

 

I've bought some apple cider vinegar, and my wife is getting some other ingredients on her way home to make a fasting "cocktail" to increase minerals, as this seems to be an issue to keep on top of.

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On 21/11/2018 at 1:33 PM, blybo said:

<snips>Unless I misunderstand it, if you are eating carbs or sugars, you build up glycogen again and take yourself out of Ketosis. It can take 36-48 hours to get back there again.

I guess that's technically correct--it will take that long for the ketones to build up in the blood, but your body burns more fat for energy and produces low levels of ketones (and will use them for energy) after fasting for 12 hours overnight as the glycogen stored in the liver is depleted. Exercise also helps burn the liver stores.

 

One of the problems with the "Greatest Loser" regime is that the exercise was excessive--sure it burned lots of fat but the muscles didn't have time to re-build and they ended up losing lots of muscle mass too. The very low calorie diet didn't help either, it kicked in the starvation response which slowed overall metabolism.

 

Burning fat and maintaining (or actually gaining) muscle is a real balancing act that many high-end strength athletes have managed. Medicine has only recently studied how they do it. 

 

 

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Well, I'm 1 week in and have done some more research to suggest it's good idea to not fast once or twice a week as the body adjusts to the likely reduced calories so slows the metabolism. This would work well for my lifestyle so I didn't fast on the weekend.

 

Anyhoo, I don't have a starting weight, as this wasn't really planned, but I was hovering around 103-104kgs for a few months. This morning =100.3kg's and I fully expect to be back in double digits tomorrow :party. The belt buckle has gone in a notch and I can see subtle changes in body composition already.

 

Apart from the 24hr fast on day 1, I've basically been skipping breakfast and having 2 meals a day, so like a 16/8 fasting plan, and more or less following a Keto diet (apart from the grog). I've just had my first "snack" in a week, a couple of handfuls of peanuts, but it's within my "eating window" so should be fine, as long as I don't make a habit of it.

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I didn't fast as such but I changed my eating habits radically around 15 years ago. I was 99k eating junk food almost every day for lunch th8inking I would lose weight "one day".

Made a huge change. Bought a bike and started riding every morning before work. No great distance but built up to around 15ks each morning.

Cut out fast food cold turkey. I didn't eat maccas, HJ or KFC (which had been my staples) for well over 2 years. I still would only have that **** no more than half a dozen times in a year.

Stopped eating lunch. I went for a walk for 30 minutes instead.

Cut the size of my meals in half for tea.

Cut out "fat" as far as no cheese on any sandwiches.

The only thing I didn't stop was having a beer. Friday night was beer and pizza night so I had something to look forward to.

I pretty much made it up as I went along and within around 18 months I was down to 71kg. Couldn't quite hit 70.

Unfortunately it all went **** up and I fell off the wagon after about 5 years of pretty much maintaining around 75kg. I did start gym for a while but I have since gone to pot again. About 85kg now. I'm 56 in March and need to have one last go at getting things manageable again and have been eating "responsible" lunches. I have some reflux problems which I have had since my 20s and it seems to flare when I get fat.

Actually had an abdominal scan today and have been shitting myself waiting for a phone call from the doc but so far nothing. Have an endoscopy also booked for a bit later.

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4 minutes ago, crisis said:

I didn't fast as such but I changed my eating habits radically around 15 years ago. I was 99k eating junk food almost every day for lunch th8inking I would lose weight "one day".

Made a huge change. Bought a bike and started riding every morning before work. No great distance but built up to around 15ks each morning.

Cut out fast food cold turkey. I didn't eat maccas, HJ or KFC (which had been my staples) for well over 2 years. I still would only have that **** no more than half a dozen times in a year.

Stopped eating lunch. I went for a walk for 30 minutes instead.

Cut the size of my meals in half for tea.

Cut out "fat" as far as no cheese on any sandwiches.

The only thing I didn't stop was having a beer. Friday night was beer and pizza night so I had something to look forward to.

I pretty much made it up as I went along and within around 18 months I was down to 71kg. Couldn't quite hit 70.

Unfortunately it all went **** up and I fell off the wagon after about 5 years of pretty much maintaining around 75kg. I did start gym for a while but I have since gone to pot again. About 85kg now. I'm 56 in March and need to have one last go at getting things manageable again and have been eating "responsible" lunches. I have some reflux problems which I have had since my 20s and it seems to flare when I get fat.

Actually had an abdominal scan today and have been shitting myself waiting for a phone call from the doc but so far nothing. Have an endoscopy also booked for a bit later.

If you have climbed the mountain once you can get there again....... give it another try, every thing to gain and only weight to lose.

Better you decide to do it than a doctor telling you that you have to.

 

Good luck............:thumb:

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4 minutes ago, Mendes said:

If you have climbed the mountain once you can get there again....... give it another try, every thing to gain and only weight to lose.

Better you decide to do it than a doctor telling you that you have to.

 

Good luck............:thumb:

Definitely. Today was quite stressful enough.

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5 minutes ago, crisis said:

I didn't fast as such but I changed my eating habits radically around 15 years ago. I was 99k eating junk food almost every day for lunch th8inking I would lose weight "one day".

Made a huge change. Bought a bike and started riding every morning before work. No great distance but built up to around 15ks each morning.

Cut out fast food cold turkey. I didn't eat maccas, HJ or KFC (which had been my staples) for well over 2 years. I still would only have that **** no more than half a dozen times in a year.

Stopped eating lunch. I went for a walk for 30 minutes instead.

Cut the size of my meals in half for tea.

Cut out "fat" as far as no cheese on any sandwiches.

The only thing I didn't stop was having a beer. Friday night was beer and pizza night so I had something to look forward to.

I pretty much made it up as I went along and within around 18 months I was down to 71kg. Couldn't quite hit 70.

Unfortunately it all went **** up and I fell off the wagon after about 5 years of pretty much maintaining around 75kg. I did start gym for a while but I have since gone to pot again. About 85kg now. I'm 56 in March and need to have one last go at getting things manageable again and have been eating "responsible" lunches. I have some reflux problems which I have had since my 20s and it seems to flare when I get fat.

Actually had an abdominal scan today and have been shitting myself waiting for a phone call from the doc but so far nothing. Have an endoscopy also booked for a bit later.

Google "The Obesity Code" by Dr Jason Fung. He (and most proponents of fasting) is/are more concerned by the types of food we eat and when we eat them, than counting calories. By cutting out lunch you were on the right track but better to cut out breakfast, as it allows the body longer between meals to go into fat burning mode, instead of using carbs/sugars from a typical western breakfast, or pasta/rice/noddle dinners.

 

I actually love having Keto breakfasts on the weekend. I usually get half a baby leaf salad pack from Coles and wilt that into some scrabbled eggs with cheese as well as some bacon. Yum, it's guilt free junk food!

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2 minutes ago, blybo said:

Google "The Obesity Code" by Dr Jason Fung. He (and most proponents of fasting) is/are more concerned by the types of food we eat and when we eat them, than counting calories.

Yes I never looked at calories. Really just reduced the size and amount of food and tried to get rid of fat. Carbs weren't a problem because I was exercising a reasonable amount.

2 minutes ago, blybo said:

 

By cutting out lunch you were on the right track but better to cut out breakfast, as it allows the body longer between meals to go into fat burning mode, instead of using carbs/sugars from a typical western breakfast, or pasta/rice/noddle dinners.

I didn't have breakfast either. Still don't. 👍

2 minutes ago, blybo said:

 

I actually love having Keto breakfasts on the weekend. I usually get half a baby leaf salad pack from Coles and wilt that into some scrabbled eggs with cheese as well as some bacon. Yum, it's guilt free junk food!

Dont eat bacon either but I get your point. 👍

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1 minute ago, crisis said:

tried to get rid of fat. Carbs weren't a problem because I was exercising a reasonable amount.

Carbs are a bigger issue than fat to modern dietary experts... or at least the ones not being paid by food companies or the sugar industry. Our whole "food pyramid" should be turned upside down. The whole obesity issue started in the mid 70's when the food pyramid was introduced.

 

3 minutes ago, crisis said:

I didn't have breakfast either. Still don't. 👍

👍

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Great topic! I'm doing my own "DIY diet." The problem with most diets is that they are very restrictive and are too easy to fail. When you design your own diet, it's inherently flexible and it's also a lifelong process of learning. Daily fasting means I can function without food for much longer. The basic idea is to track what you are doing, notice what is working and keep adjusting until you get the result you want.

 

I've lost 12kg and I'm moving steadily towards my goal.

 

Here's a few things I've found really helpful:

 

1. Start each meal with veggies only on your plate first, then add meat and the things you most want to eat that are "healthy enough." Finish off with as much fruit as you need to be full

2. Track your weight, exercise and calories, making adjustments until you steadily lose weight - the My Fitness Pal app is great

3. Figure out the foods that satisfy within your calorie targets

4. Don't go too low on calories because your metabolism will go down and you are married to the calories you choose with no option for divorce

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Red Spade Audio said:

The problem with most diets is that they are very restrictive and are too easy to fail.

I was talking to a friend who is a GP. She told me that there was a very large meta-study done of diets and the conclusion was very simple: "find a diet that you will stick to"… really.

 

Pretty much all (sensible) diets work when you are on them, so find one that you can stay on 

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Guest Muon N'

I fast when i run out of things to eat.

 

I don't go for any diets, and there are many, some are just plain stupid like the one based on blood types :emot-bang: One thing western diets are known for apart from the junk food, is that we on average eat far too much protein. I generally eat only one meal a day, and often that is small.

 

I need to loose the middle I have gained over the last decade.

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I thought the majority of recent studies suggest western diets contain far too many carbohydrates. 

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2 hours ago, frankn said:

I thought the majority of recent studies suggest western diets contain far too many carbohydrates. 

Western eating habits usually contain too much of everything. We need enough protein to maintain and/or build muscle, a good deal of vitamins and minerals--mostly from veges and a small amount of fruit. We only need starchy carbs if we're short of energy for our daily activities. Sugars we don't need at all.

 

Sometimes I eat what I need, sometimes I eat what I enjoy.😞

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4 hours ago, frankn said:

I thought the majority of recent studies suggest western diets contain far too many carbohydrates. 

Carbs are fine if you are already lean and highly active... as I used to be before kids came along... A mate of mine who goes to the gym 5 days a week and then does long rides in the hills can eat an amazing amount of carbs. His normal breakfast is 12 wheat bix 😳. But he is addicted to exercise, our families shared a house in Port Douglas 2 years ago and he'd disappear to the local gym for 2 hours each day.

 

I fell just under 100kg's today but am beginning to realise I'm limiting my calorie intake too much, which is fine for now but something I won't keep up once I lose the majority of weight I want to get off. The Christmas parties start for us this weekend so I'll stay on the 2 healthy meals a day and have the occasional blowout till the new year at least

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31 minutes ago, blybo said:

Carbs are fine if you are already lean and highly active... as I used to be before kids came along... A mate of mine who goes to the gym 5 days a week and then does long rides in the hills can eat an amazing amount of carbs. His normal breakfast is 12 wheat bix 😳. But he is addicted to exercise, our families shared a house in Port Douglas 2 years ago and he'd disappear to the local gym for 2 hours each day.

 

I fell just under 100kg's today but am beginning to realise I'm limiting my calorie intake too much, which is fine for now but something I won't keep up once I lose the majority of weight I want to get off. The Christmas parties start for us this weekend so I'll stay on the 2 healthy meals a day and have the occasional blowout till the new year at least

"if you are already lean and highly active" is not the definition of 90% - 95% of the Australian population.  :)    Generic diet's are by definition aimed at the general population.

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update;

Last weekend was a blow out with a pre christmas get together with friends on top of not fasting that day. Several bottles of red, 4 or 5 beers and way too much food meant I put on over 2kg in 2 days.

 

We had a work Christmas function at a Greek restaurant on Wednesday night and I din't hold back there either, but went light on bread and dips and probably drank 3/4 of a bottle of red myself. I had fasted for 24 hrs leading up to that dinner and had still lost 200g the next morning. I'm not weighing myself everyday but I did for those days as I was interested in how those large meals and drinks would effect me.

 

So this week I've lost what I put on over the weekend so I'm now lighter at 99.2kg this morning than my last update. I'll be strict now till Christmas and only drink on "non school nights". Bloody hot today and I'm cooking a BBQ, so will need a few beers to get thru that... 😜

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I think one of the risks of fasting .... is gluttony :D or binging out. something I have to be VERY careful about. especially since love food ! 

 

i did a course once. was a health / diabetes heart thing. one I will always remember the lady saying ... that when you see a biscuit ... replace with what ever tasty morsel comes to mind. ask yourself will I die if I dont eat it ? the biscuit ? and then think well it could hasten my dying if I do eat it .... a bit extreme... but you need something to stop yourself ... its so easy to take in fat sugar calories ... especially with modern processed foods that are packed with the things :)

 

 

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8 minutes ago, betty boop said:

I think one of the risks of fasting .... is gluttony or binging out.

I always figured this would be an issue..... but have found it to be totally not for me (and have encountered lots of people who also say it is not a problem for them either).    At the end of a fast day I usually think to myself "man, I am going to eat all the 'nice' foods tomorrow" .... and then I wake up the next day, and just eat normally - no issue.

 

11 minutes ago, betty boop said:

especially with modern processed foods that are packed with the things

This.

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13 minutes ago, betty boop said:

I think one of the risks of fasting .... is gluttony :D or binging out. something I have to be VERY careful about. especially since love food ! 

Have you tried fasting Al?

I'm with @davewantsmoore on this. Last night I went to Doncaster Westfield and had dinner in the food court. I decided to stay away from carbs (which rules almost everything out) and got a big serve of Korean fried Chicken. I didn't like the sause and it was too hot for me so left 80% of it. My wife asked if I wanted to get something else in it's place and I said, nah, I'll just have some fruit and some peanuts when I get home. All I had previously for the day was a green salad with avo, and some left over corned beef cut up in it.

 

With fasting you should not be dramatically reducing your calorie intake, so we are eating more calorie dense food in the 2 meals we eat like avocado, nuts, skin on roast chicken, more oil on salads as a dressing instead of processed sugary dressings.

 

The Apple Cider Vinegar drink is not very pleasant each morning but it does wake me up and kick start the day. It is meant to reduce hunger craving by evening out insulin spikes but has many other benefits too. I just skull it down followed by some plain water and then an espresso.

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29 minutes ago, blybo said:

With fasting you should not be dramatically reducing your calorie intake

Not quite sure what you mean here.

 

On my fast day, I obviously dramatically reduce my calorie intake  (to about 600 from 2000).    On the non-fast days, I don't "make up" for the lost calories.

 

So overall week to week, my calorie intake is reduced (reduced by about 2800 calories).

 

I try to switch my calories away from sugar towards fat and protein .... and on non-fast days I think this 'switch' is much more important than general calorie 'counting' or 'reduction'.    So if I blow my ~2000 calories for the day, it doesn't matter as long as it's not sugar.

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29 minutes ago, blybo said:

Have you tried fasting Al?

yes, right from childhood :)

 

its actually quite common in many cultures :)

 

for me though right now its not really about fasting. its more controlling my food (portions) types of foods. so if I miss a meal I dont as such class it as fasting. just not eating because I'm not hungry. I'm aiming for one main meal a day. rest fruits, veggies (I am also not looking to cut out (carbs or anything like that) more balance with fruits veggies, (carbs included) 

 

anyways let see.... :)

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4 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Not quite sure what you mean here.

 

On my fast day, I obviously dramatically reduce my calorie intake  (to about 600 from 2000).    On the non-fast days, I don't "make up" for the lost calories.

 

So overall week to week, my calorie intake is reduced (reduced by about 2800 calories).

 

I try to switch my calories away from sugar towards fat and protein .... and on non-fast days I think this 'switch' is much more important than general calorie 'counting' or 'reduction'.    So if I blow my ~2000 calories for the day, it doesn't matter as long as it's not sugar.

So it sounds like you are doing more of a 5:2 program rather than intermittent fasting. From what I’ve learned the benefits of intermittent fasting is letting the body have long enough between eating windows to burn fat rather than sugar and doing this many times per week. There are many studies that have shown having a control group eating a set number of calories whenever they liked compared to same food intake with a fasting period each day. The ones fasting lost plenty of weight, the others didn’t. 

 

Both methods will work of course, and I’m going close to Keto as well to speed up weight loss, I’ve cut out all sugar except alcohol a couple times a week, but allowing myself a few carbs when cooking them for the kids

Edited by blybo

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