Jump to content

7" + sub vs 8" no sub


Recommended Posts

I've currently got a pair of JBL 305s and the 310S sub in my study room that's about 3.5 x 4 x 3 m in volume (WxLxH).

I'm planning on selling off my ZMF Auteurs and speakers and get a pair of either

 

- $2400 Eve Audio SC207 -> https://www.storedj.com.au/eve-audio-sc207-2-way-7-professional-studio-monitor-speakers-pair 

 

which says it'll go down to 44Hz and I'll probably keep my sub

 

or 

 

- $3000 AUD Eve Audio SC208 -> https://www.storedj.com.au/eve-audio-sc208-2-way-8-professional-studio-monitor-speakers-pair 

 

which says it'll go down to 36Hz so I'll probably sell my sub with the 305s

I've heard both at a store (but not at the same time because they didn't have one at each time). The 207s sounded very good but I think it lacked bass quantity and some extension. The quality of everything else was very good. The 208s were also very good and I didn't find anything I'd change in the short time I heard them. Maybe they lacked a bit of energy, I'm not too sure.

 

Also, does anyone recommend anything else? I tried putting my B&W CM6 S2s on my desk but they sounded very lackluster. I put them in my living room and they sounded amazing. I've listened to a pair of ELAC BS244.3 and ELAC Air-X 403. The first was very unforgiving with a lot of my music and the second was just boring. So history makes me feel like hifi speakers aren't suitable for my desk, but I am open to suggestions. I live in Perth, Australia and I'd really like to audition before I buy. If something is truly amazing that I should try out, I think I'd be willing to deal with domestic shipping only and only if the store/company is easy to do business with.

 

Also, I've heard the Adam T5/7V, Yamaha HS8, and Presonus R80 alongside the Eve SC207 and the Eves definitely won that shootout.

Edited by thisisnotaboutagirl
Added some comparisons
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Most music doesn't have much content below 50Hz, with the exception of some EDM / electronic.

 

Bass drum is typically at 80hz.

 

The 8" driver will move more air than the 7" version. But not all that much difference.

 

If the speakers have a high pass and your sub has a low pass, use the sub with either speaker to reduce the excursion of the LF drivers in the top boxes. 

 

Finally, just buy whatever you like the sound of. You're the one who has to listen to it. If your not keen on what you've already heard, then keep looking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, eltech said:

Most music doesn't have much content below 50Hz, with the exception of some EDM / electronic.

I beg to differ. I am astounded by how much energy there is below 50Hz in most genres of music. Reproducing those frequencies gets progressively harder and more difficult at high volumes, but even comparing a system that goes to 20 Hz versus one that goes to 30 Hz is very noticeable.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the Melbourne HiFi show, I heard the demo of Sonus Fabre Venere speakers with a pair of Rel subs connected via the speakers ( not via the pre-p/avr sub out).

that was impressive on music with no apparent bass let alone bass music.

 

if you get a chance to try a sub or two, and you have options how you wire the subs in eg via the speakers you may find a surprisingly good option. Or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

I am astounded by how much energy there is below 50Hz in most

Really?????

It's usually at much lower amplitude than the 80Hz to 3k region.

 

I have 4 X 15" subs in one pair of speakers and 2x 18" in another pair. 

 

I do know about bass, and I like to look at spectral analysis because I'm a nerd. So I stand by my comment.

Edited by eltech
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

but even comparing a system that goes to 20 Hz versus one that goes to 30 Hz is very noticeable

Really? On most music I doubt it. 

It depends on so many factors. Room size and accoustics of that room, as well as the roll off characteristics of the 30Hz speakers you're referring to.

Edited by eltech
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20Hz isn't really that audible. I've had to test many subs at low and high SPL and I can feel the air pressure, and hear them rattling walls and ceilings but as for actually hearing the fundamental sine wave. Nope. You need a very long distance between yourself and the sub to hear it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, eltech said:

Most music doesn't have much content below 50Hz

This depends very very much on the mix.    Music (ie. musical instruments) certainly DOES have content at very low frequencies..... and it is a mistake to only consider the "fundamental tone" of an instrument (eg. bass drum ~80, bass guitar lowest note ~40, etc.)

 

You are right that some music has had these frequencies removed.

8 hours ago, thisisnotaboutagirl said:

So history makes me feel like hifi speakers aren't suitable for my desk

Yep, if it's for a serious desk setup then look for speakers which are designed for nearfield listening.   Many have a "switch" on them to tune the speaker for listening distances, and how close it is to walls/floors (eg. desk surface).

 

1 hour ago, eltech said:

You need a very long distance between yourself and the sub to hear it.

This is quite incorrect.    You can hear a tone (of any frequency) no matter how far you are from the source.... and no matter how large/small the room is you are in.    I have heard people say that you must be a wavelength (or whatever distance) from the source, or that the room must be bigger than a wavelength ..... and these are both utter nonsense.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



@20hz I hear port noise. I hear a slight amount of cabinet resonance, i can hear the spider and surround making some stretching noises, I hear all walls rattling. But really don't think I hear the 20Hz. I feel it. I start to hear a tone at around about 27Hz. I find it very interesting that people say they can hear 20Hz. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, eltech said:

@20hz I hear port noise. I hear a slight amount of cabinet resonance, i can hear the spider and surround making some stretching noises, I hear all walls rattling. But really don't think I hear the 20Hz. I feel it. I start to hear a tone at around about 27Hz. I find it very interesting that people say they can hear 20Hz. 

Best solution - if you're in Melbourne, come around here, have a listen, and we can geek it up listening to hi-fi and discuss it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, eltech said:

I can't hear wifi frequencies.??

Apart from the frequency range which puts wifi waayy out of our hearing spectrum, there is one more factor: wifi are electtomagnetic waves while sound consists of mechanical waves. We wouldn't be able to hear wifi even if it was using 1kHz signals, because we don't have the right receptors for that.

 

Coming back to this thread's topic: I have used 8" monitors as my desktop speakers and still felt that a sub was necessary. But this will largely depend on how the speakers are placed and how your room interacts with them. If the intended placement is close to a wall then rear ported speakers may have a hard time to sound their best.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



14 hours ago, eltech said:

Well, blow me down. I stand right next to subs flapping at 20hz and don't really hear it, only feel it. Must just be me. Oh well ?

This is because ~20Hz is not audible, at all, from any distance.

 

The idea that you need to be a certain distance from a source, to hear a certain frequency (ie. you need to be further to hear low frequencies, because they are long) .... is wrong.

 

14 hours ago, eltech said:

I find it very interesting that people say they can hear 20Hz. 

Indeed.  Clean 20Hz is not very audible at all.... unless it is very loud.

Edited by davewantsmoore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The threshold for hearing 20Hz is about 75dB, but that's the minimum meaning it's only barely audible. Most drivers give out before creating any significant amplitude at 20Hz which is why it's rarely audible. My sub can only do 102dB maximum at 20Hz which is about as audible as a 55dB 1kHz tone, despite being almost 17". Ideally I'd actually like a second sub but am scrapped for space - though I might find a way to do it in the future anyway. Yes you can get more extension and louder subs than this if going ported, but I prefer the sound and lesser group delay of a closed sub.

image

The main reason people don't hear 20Hz is because they can't reproduce it loudly enough. Reproducing that frequency reliably requires a dedicated design with very different requirements to the rest of a full range speaker. Speakers that claim to go down to 20Hz often can't reproduce it at any real significant loudness so they look good on paper but rarely contribute to music since the music needs to be relatively loud for it to be audible, and the drivers need to create immense displacement to match it. I use a subwoofer purely for 30Hz and below and the difference in authority and foundation to all instrumental music is substantial. While I predominantly listen to classical, all music genres seem to benefit, be it rock, pop, jazz, heavy metal, whatever...

Edited by Ittaku
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Satanica said:

I believe this to be incorrect. Bass kick drums are mostly in the 50Hz region.

 

http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/principles_of_multitrack_mixing_the_kick_drum_bass_relationship/P1/

I go by what I measure not random articles.  You should also do some measurements and come to your own conclusions. I don't mean to be rude.

Measure things, don't just randomly "believe" it's a better way to be.

Edited by eltech
Link to comment
Share on other sites



3 hours ago, Ittaku said:

The threshold for hearing 20Hz is about 75dB, but that's the minimum meaning it's only barely audible.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make, but clearly I failed to make my point, or I was misinterpreted. I hang my head in shame for my lack of clarity. I appreciate your post for explaining it clearly.

 

When I said I can't hear the tone at 20Hz, Ive used twin 21" subs of 2000 watt power handling. By the time they are outputting sufficient SPL everything else is rattling, so the tone, if there is one to hear, is at lower amplitude than the "everything else" that's rattling. Get what I'm saying? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ittaku said:

The threshold for hearing 20Hz is about 75dB, but that's the minimum meaning it's only barely audible.

Furthermore, if the 20Hz content is say 30dB below the average. That means the average SPL at your ears has to be about 105 dB before the 20Hz content is barely audible.

If your average SPL is say 60dB, then the 20Hz content is at only 30dB which makes it completely inaudible. See how this lines up precisely with what I originally said?

 

Edited by eltech
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, eltech said:

Furthermore, if the 20Hz content is say 30dB below the average. That means the average SPL at your ears has to be about 105 dB before the 20Hz content is barely audible.

If your average SPL is say 60dB, then the 20Hz content is at only 30dB which makes it completely inaudible. See how this lines up precisely with what I originally said?

That's not quite how it works. If your average SPL is 60dB why would the 20Hz content only be 30dB? The energy is most concentrated down near the lower frequencies rather than the high. But yes you're right if you listen at 60dB average then you won't hear any 20Hz notes, however that's quite a bit lower than I'm likely to listen to music at unless it's purely on for background music purposes.  I do like to listen to music at full scale if possible, which probably explains my love of big speakers and lots of amplification. Blame my love of Shostakovich and Prokofiev...

Edited by Ittaku
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, eltech said:

I go by what I measure not random articles.  You should also do some measurements and come to your own conclusions. I don't mean to be rude.

Measure things, don't just randomly "believe" it's a better way to be.

You've measured a kick drum? In that not so random article that I linked to, they have.

 

Posting links to information is within the rules of this forum I believe so please don't suggest or try to tell me to do otherwise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I'll go with a 7" Eves and keep my sub because it saves some money and selling the sub won't be quick or easy.

 

Btw the sub is definitely the final piece of the audio experience given my musical tastes (hip hop and electronica especially) and my preferred tonality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top