buddyev Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 On 30/11/2018 at 9:30 AM, Gieseler Audio said: Well I have just done another critical comparison of the Gross using 1. std supplied 9v plugpack transformer. 2. Kraftwerk M18PSU 12v 4A unit. 3. All Silmic version of the Kraftwerk now with 100+ hours run in on the Silmic's. With out a doubt the std Kraftwerk unit is clearly the best sounding & not by a small margin. I did this test first thing in the morning so I was nice & relaxed & focused. I just thought I would post this so anyone considering a PSU upgrade can be assured that currently my best sounding PSU is the Kraftwerk M18PSU 12v 4A unit. Note & can also supply it with a 9v output. Hi Clay, are you planning to do Kraftwerk as 14 v? I think you said before that 14v was preferable for the Gross dacs? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Hi Russ, I did compare the sound at 12v, 14v & 15v but in the end 12v seemed fractionaly better so I'm sticking with that. Edited December 4, 2018 by Gieseler Audio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Gieseler Audio said: Hi Russ, I did compare the sound at 12v, 14v & 15v but in the end 12v seemed fractional better so I'm sticking with that. Thanks Clay. i’ll be ordering one soon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matth Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said: I did compare the sound at 12v, 14v & 15v but in the end 12v seemed fractionaly better so I'm sticking with that. Hi Clay, I do not want to be picky but when you feed with 9VAC you get 12,7VDC so 13VDC maybe worth a try as well. Thanks ATB Matt Edited December 4, 2018 by matth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 Yes good point Matt. I actually measured the DC output of the main supply for the analogue section in the Gross when powered by the normal 9v external transformer & it was about 13.65v. Based on that & allowing for the diode drop in the bridge rectifier I thought between 14v to 15v dc in would give the same final dc voltage. Well 14.3 v dc in gave me the equivalent final voltage that the 9v AC transformer produced however with listening tests 12v dc in worked out to be the sweet spot. All the lead pre regulators in the Gross have an output of 8v & drop about 2v so 10v or more on the input side is enough for them to regulate. At the end of the day it is all about the sound quality & 12v dc in just sounded the best. The DAC runs slightly cooler with the 12v dc supply too so that is a bonus. I have carefully monitored all the internal DAC, Amanero & S/PDIF voltage rails with 12v dc in & they are all spot on & rock solid so I’m happy with that. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkBun69s Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Well Gents, i've been running the new 12v 4a - standard Kraftwerk LPSU in for nearly 40 hours since i got it on Monday evening but i didnt do any listening until yesterday evening Let it be known that i've only recently transacted with Clay, getting a Klein III dac 2 weeks ago and now the Kraftwerk LPSU and had no affiliation nor heard of any Giseler products prior. Packaging & Service Cant fault with either, it arrived real fast, and was packed really well. Build quality superb, the connectors fit snug and it even has plastic locking cover to prevent the LPSU cable from being accidentally disconnected. The external EI transformer was quite heavy (bonus!) Sound Let me say that the stock standard PSU that Clay provides is not in any way inadequate for running the Klein III to its fullest. I could easily live with it and wouldn't have known any better until all that ruckus came up on running a DC LPSU to the Klein III. So what improvements did I notice with the upgrade you ask? The sound took a step forward, it sounded bolder, highs and mids slightly more refined, bass was much deeper. What i really noticed more so was the layering of the music was much better, which enhanced the depth and stage of the song. Its always hard to put an actual equation or means to substantiate what I heard accurately, but if I were to take a stab at it, its like squeezing out that last 10% performance from the Klein III. Is it a necessity? No, and thankfully its an upgrade path that is offered should funds or the option to do so permits. Sorry Clay, as much as you've kindly offered the option to return the Kraftwerk LPSU back to you, i dont think its gonna be coming your way. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
als Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just got mine running in now - thanks @Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 If you have a Fein DAC, don't stop and think about buying a Gieseler Kraftwerk power supply. Order it NOW - your ears will thank you! Takes it up level or two and makes the DAC a killer at the price. Have a look at my review... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Clay, you might want to remove this from the listing on the website. ‘Not compatible or required with other Gieseler products.’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 Oops - thanks Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 New production bench (& staff) added to cope with all the new Kraftwerk M18 PSU orders The notes show the missing parts required for completion - I have a ton of parts coming in Friday/Monday so hopefully we will fill back orders & actually have finished units in stock early next week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 What’s with the microwave Clay? Going to burn in units before sending them out?! Hahaha.... ok bad dad joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkNark Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I am getting confused here. The standard version is better than the upgraded "Silmic II" version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussB Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 What’s with the microwave Clay? Going to burn in units before sending them out?! Hahaha.... ok bad dad joke [emoji4]He only has time for working lunches with all these Kraftwerk orders coming through! I know, another dad joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyev Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, DarkNark said: I am getting confused here. The standard version is better than the upgraded "Silmic II" version? I understand that this is the recommended one by Clay: Kraftwerk M18PSU 12v 4A. Not the Silmic version. Edited December 6, 2018 by buddyev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 Actually it is a Breville pro convection oven which is modified slightly with our custom arduino controller & now doing reflow soldering duties . The surface mount components of Klein III’s are all reflowed in it. It was a bit of a learning curve to start with but all sorted now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkNark Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, buddyev said: I understand that this is the recommended one by Clay: Kraftwerk M18PSU 12v 4A. Not the Silmic version. Thanks That was my understanding. The $375 version is better than the $500 version. @Gieseler Audio Clay can you put me down for .................. Edited December 6, 2018 by DarkNark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, DarkNark said: @Gieseler Audio Clay can you put me down for a $375 version, no rush on mine as I am away for a few months. Order here: https://www.gieseler.com.au/product-page/m18psu-kraftwerk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratcher Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Awesome work Clay! I am thoroughly enjoying the boost in performance the new Kraftwerk psu adds to my Gross. I will have to give it some more time to run in but initial impressions are very positive. Thanks mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkBun69s Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 11 hours ago, DarkNark said: Thanks That was my understanding. The $375 version is better than the $500 version. @Gieseler Audio Clay can you put me down for .................. Well at least you get some honesty from the designer/manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkNark Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, katattack74 said: Well at least you get some honesty from the designer/manufacturer. Absolutely I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. I think the opening post needs to be edited. Rather than have to read the whole thread to find out the experiment didn't quite live up to expectations. As I said, I started to get a bit confused what model we were talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 Sorry guys - yes it is a bit confusing. I was totally expecting the Silmic one to sound better but I was wrong. In future I will wait until I've actually heard new designs before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkNark Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said: Sorry guys No need to apologise. It was interesting to read along even though it didn't work as planned. Just goes to show, to me at least, how much effort and testing goes on "behind" the scenes. Disregard my comments, I am easily confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Actually, this level of transparency with trying things is likely to be good for business as it likely inspires confidence in those who haven't done business with you yet. It's nice to see a manufacturer actually promote the better sounding gear rather than just what costs more as so often happens with audio gear. I'd encourage you to continue along these lines 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBurns84 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 42 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said: Sorry guys - yes it is a bit confusing. I was totally expecting the Silmic one to sound better but I was wrong. In future I will wait until I've actually heard new designs before posting. We all live and learn - but half the fun is in the journey itself 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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