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PS Audio DACS - outdated or still current?


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Hi all

 

I currently have a Chord 2Qute and an AURALiC Aries, which is going well for me.

 

I’m curious about the Directstream and Bridge combo. Whilst I see they’ve had lots of software updates, the model has been around for ages I beliece. 

 

Are these still “current”? Old tech?

 

If so is there a new one coming?

 

Cheers

 

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14 hours ago, memota said:

Are these still “current”? Old tech?

Still current tech and a perfectly fine DAC in its own right.

 

14 hours ago, memota said:

If so is there a new one coming?

Unfortunately, irrespective of the brand or model of anything, there is always a new one coming. However, I'm not aware of any PS audio marketing describing a replacement model.

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54 minutes ago, PKay said:

Or even better at a significant saving check out the Gieseler Gros Dac. I just bought one and IMO this it is incredible value and sound performance.

x 2 and agreed at the actual new price they are sold for by Clay they are a absolute bargain.

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Yes agree with @Ittaku FGPA is current technology and Ted Smith continues to refine the product via software updates, the latest of which is about to be released in the coming weeks.

There will be a limit to when the software updates reach their limit but that hasn't happened yet.  Go to the PS Audio forums for more info, look at the posts from Ted Smith under DAC's;

This is a good thread . 

 

Yes there is currently in development a "super version" - currently tagged as the TSS Directstream however it is a long way off and is likely to be aimed at a significantly higher price band / competition for dcs / MBL etc....   

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The DirectStream DAC itself is awesome and still very current in terms of technology. It originally upsampled to 10x DSD and output at 2x DSD. The same hardware now upsamples to 20x DSD and outputs at 4x DSD courtesy of the software updates that PS Audio continues to supply for free to all owners.

 

The Bridge, even version 2, is kind of meh compared to a lot of the competing products. The biggest advantage that it has is being able to adjust the DAC's internal digital volume (which is a truly lossless, transparent thing) from the network. There's no other way to achieve that – I just control the DAC's volume using a Harmony IR remote, which is also able to play/pause and skip tracks courtesy of my SqueezeBox Touch and Roon playback chain. The Bridge 2 does have official MQA decoding to 192/24 if that matters to you. Without that you only get up to 96kHz from the first unfold in your player.

 

The built-in I2S and USB inputs support higher resolution sources than the Bridge and are both capable of beating the bridge for overall sound quality given good signals.

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The whole point of the DAC is that it is software, not chip based, so it stays "current" with updates. And it hasn't been around for ages, unless you consider a few years ages. But in the case of a software based DAC, that is basically irrelevant.

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If somebody was thinking in computer terms, the FPGA is now a generation or two behind. There are limits to what that particular processor is capable of doing, and newer ones would be more capable. But thankfully that particular component hasn't yet become a limiting factor: Ted Smith is still extracting better and better results through software, as you say @firedog

 

What's still unique and I would argue yet-to-be-bettered is the clocking and output stage design. That is as essential to the design as the software but it can't be modified in an update by end users.

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  • 2 weeks later...

From somebody who has tried the PS Audio DS, and compared it to a Chord 2 Qute, Hugo, Hugo TT, and Gieseler GroB I’d say DON’T do it. Very underwhelming (and overpriced) product. I had a Chord 2 Qute at the time and it bettered the DirectStream in every way, completely dominated it. The only scenario I’ve heard the DS sound ok is with a full PS Audio BHK setup running into $40,000 PMC speakers. It sounded ok but put in another DAC to the same system and it was so much better than the DS. My opinion backed up by others in both situations where I was listening to it. Bass is soft and woollly and undefined. Rest of the frequency range is ‘nice’ and inoffensive but a Rega 1 with a really good cartridge would make you laugh at the PS Audio, little own a good DAC. If you want an improvement look at other DACs that are being recommended here, or try the new Hugo TT2 (yes I’ve tried it) and the @Gieseler Audio  DACs. The GroB and the Fein especially are stupidly good for the money. With the upgraded Geiseler power supply not a lot can touch the Gieseler DACs below a new TT2. And they easily compete against the TT2, bettering it in the lower frequencies and bass. By the way I’m a big PS Audio fan and have PS Audio gear in my system. But my order is in for a Gieseler Fein and upgraded power supply. 

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On 05/11/2018 at 6:29 PM, memota said:

Hi all

 

I currently have a Chord 2Qute and an AURALiC Aries, which is going well for me.

 

I’m curious about the Directstream and Bridge combo. Whilst I see they’ve had lots of software updates, the model has been around for ages I beliece. 

 

Are these still “current”? Old tech?

 

If so is there a new one coming?

 

Cheers

 

I have really enjoyed all the replies to your question.

The beauty of the PS Audio product is that it is FGPA and it is updated regularly - so to answer your question - yes, the product is still current and should be as long as software upgrades can be done. I personally think it is a great way of building equipment as it extends it's life.

What others have said and what I would like to elaborate on is that what we have is possibly good enough and does not need change. 

Before you make a final decision please listen to the options in your system.

Enjoy the journey.

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Thanks everyone, some very thoughtful replies here.

 

At the end of the day I should go and listen - perhaps an in-home demo if anyone does that.

 

It sounds like that processor is not yet limiting the software which is the key I suppose.

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7 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

From somebody who has tried the PS Audio DS, and compared it to a Chord 2 Qute, Hugo, Hugo TT, and Gieseler GroB I’d say DON’T do it. Very underwhelming (and overpriced) product. I had a Chord 2 Qute at the time and it bettered the DirectStream in every way, completely dominated it. The only scenario I’ve heard the DS sound ok is with a full PS Audio BHK setup running into $40,000 PMC speakers. It sounded ok but put in another DAC to the same system and it was so much better than the DS. My opinion backed up by others in both situations where I was listening to it. Bass is soft and woollly and undefined. Rest of the frequency range is ‘nice’ and inoffensive but a Rega 1 with a really good cartridge would make you laugh at the PS Audio, little own a good DAC. If you want an improvement look at other DACs that are being recommended here, or try the new Hugo TT2 (yes I’ve tried it) and the @Gieseler Audio  DACs. The GroB and the Fein especially are stupidly good for the money. With the upgraded Geiseler power supply not a lot can touch the Gieseler DACs below a new TT2. And they easily compete against the TT2, bettering it in the lower frequencies and bass. By the way I’m a big PS Audio fan and have PS Audio gear in my system. But my order is in for a Gieseler Fein and upgraded power supply. 

@maxheadroom

interesting your comments. 

I have a ‘reasonable’ tt/cart/phono amp. 

ClearAudio/SME-V/Lyra Kleos/Golden Age Audio Ref. Phono amp/Lundahail transformers-> BHKpre/BHK 300 monos/Quad2905s. Connection from tt-> BHKpre is Aurealis R3 Dragon cables and from BHKpre to amps and speakers is via  Belden Iconoclast cables. 

Basic system I know. 

If I compare the above to the DMP + DSsnr there isn’t much in it. 

I am happy for anyone to bring over a Grob or a R2R to show me how much better they are. 

I wanted a loan of the wandering Grob that Clay had out several months ago but it was pulled from circulation after a while. Pity. 

 

 

BD2367E5-D108-4DD3-88D1-68B8FF129386.jpeg

Edited by frankn
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5 minutes ago, awayward said:

The DS snr has been elevated considerably by the extraordinary Snowmass update, any previous comparisons to other DACs are null and void, imho

Snowmass is an improvement but in my system it’s evolutionary not extraordinary. Better bass, clearer yes. It seems recording specific - e.g. brings out more on good recordings - to be expected I suppose. Can’t make a silk purse from a sows ear!

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2 minutes ago, frankn said:

Snowmass is an improvement but in my system it’s evolutionary not extraordinary. Better bass, clearer yes. It seems recording specific - e.g. brings out more on good recordings - to be expected I suppose. Can’t make a silk purse from a sows ear!

Well it is opposite in my system, non HD has improved considerably across the board, HD is more recording specific, at a general level the tone of everything is more realistic, plus the things you have mentioned and more. 

I don’t think I’ve played anything that hasn’t clearly sounded better, mostly I go wtf

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I too have been left quite amazed at the level of improvement that Snowmass has impacted on my set up and I would also really like to hear the difference with another DAC one day.

Now is certainly a good time to give the DS snr a demo @memota and should you do it would be great to hear your impressions and comparisons like @Max Headroom has done :thumb:

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17 hours ago, mtf said:

I too have been left quite amazed at the level of improvement that Snowmass has impacted on my set up and I would also really like to hear the difference with another DAC one day.

Now is certainly a good time to give the DS snr a demo @memota and should you do it would be great to hear your impressions and comparisons like @Max Headroom has done :thumb:

these posts are a great example of the benefit in buying into a line like the PS Audio family. Do you think 6 months down the track that the Gross DAC will have a firmware update that improves its performance? I am not a PS Audio owner, but I also recently purchased an "old-tech" DAC which is also from a family that continues to support older products with firmware updates (and updated modules) etc. I am planning to run a shoot-out with this DAC and the Gross to see where it stands; and even if the Gross is victorious I will walk away knowing that in 6 or so months time my 'old dac' may yet take another step forward and surpass the Gross (if the manufacturer sends another update!). :)

Edited by Juicester
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  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

 

I've just recently purchased a PS Audio DAC (DS Snr) with Bridge2. It came with Snowmass. Initially out of the box - a bit dry, brittle and also mushy in the bass but clarity was there as well as depth. Initially out of the box - an improvement on my current DAC. I've since clocked about 300 Hrs on it and I must admit that it has improved substantially over the burn in period. 

Much like others here - its nice to know that there are manufacturers that provide free updates to improve performance. I look forward to the next update!

I haven't heard the Gieseler Audio DAC but if its as good as expected - then the race is on for the next firmware update!

Cheers

 

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If you currently have a Direct Stream then I see no reason to upgrade.  It's still being updated.

 

That said if you're looking for a new DAC my vote goes to the Gieseler Gross DAC + Kraftwerk power supply upgrade. I'm running that in my system and its nothing short of spectacular :)

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