Vinyl disillusionment

[sir sanders zingmore]

I'm a bit disillusioned with the while vinyl thing...

The other night we had some friends over and we were spinning some vinyls and the volume got quite loud. Quite a bit louder than I usually play - the kids were complaining

 Everyone was super impressed with the sound but all I could hear were problems:

1) the bass was very boomy - I'm pretty sure it was feeding back via the speakers. Also, if I tap the turntable, the sound seems to keep going for ages (hence why I think it's feedback)

2) quite a lot of surface noise and

3) I guess motor rumble. Not 100% sure but in the runout groove and in-between tracks I could hear a low frequency background noise. 

 

My setup is as per the attached pic:

TT is on a wooden cabinet between the speakers. Wooden floorboards

Its a Yamaha GT750 with a Dynavector Karat 17d3 Cart.

The phono stage is the inbuilt one in my devialet - this is a weak point (it's a bit hissy but I don't think it's the cause of the above problems)

 

My problem is now that I'm aware of the noise, I can't un-hear it.

I'm considering chucking the whole thing in… is that nuts?

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Sir Sanders Zingmore

[Candyflip]

I've got a car with a really squeaky door that I can hear, but no-one else that gets in is terribly bothered by.

Should I sell it and get a motorcycle instead?
Problem solved.....

 

[Telecine]

Try some better isolation for the TT.

 

Surface noise will be the record. You could try cleaning it.

 

Worry about these things before you worry about motor rumble.

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 minute ago, candyflip said:

I've got a car with a really squeaky door that I can hear, but no-one else that gets in is terribly bothered by.

Should I sell it and get a motorcycle instead?
Problem solved.....

 

When I tell people I have a Yamaha GT750 they think I already have a motorcycle

 

[Guest Simonon]

I'm a bit disillusioned with the while vinyl thing...
The other night we had some friends over and we were spinning some vinyls and the volume got quite loud. Quite a bit louder than I usually play - the kids were complaining [emoji4]
 Everyone was super impressed with the sound but all I could hear were problems:
1) the bass was very boomy - I'm pretty sure it was feeding back via the speakers. Also, if I tap the turntable, the sound seems to keep going for ages (hence why I think it's feedback)
2) quite a lot of surface noise and
3) I guess motor rumble. Not 100% sure but in the runout groove and in-between tracks I could hear a low frequency background noise. 
 
My setup is as per the attached pic:
TT is on a wooden cabinet between the speakers. Wooden floorboards
Its a Yamaha GT750 with a Dynavector Karat 17d3 Cart.
The phono stage is the inbuilt one in my devialet - this is a weak point (it's a bit hissy but I don't think it's the cause of the above problems)
 
My problem is now that I'm aware of the noise, I can't un-hear it.
I'm considering chucking the whole thing in… is that nuts?
 

Looking at your setup you will need to attach a shelf to your wall for your tunrtable. With floorboards this is the only way to isolate it. I would say the improvement in sound would be huge with a wall mount.
I ultrasonically clean and vacuum my vinyl with amazing results this does not need to be expensive.
I now also use a DBX 2BX expander which is fantastic for improving dynamic range, reducing surface noise and rumble ( you also can bypass it but I find I use it constantly).
The moving coil position on my phono preamp accentuated noise so I now use a step up transformer and the moving magnet position on my preamp.
My perception of vinyl has changed and I now prefer it over digital which I thought I would never say.
Also pay attention to eliminating ground loops and earthing.

[MarsofMars]

Oh heaven's no! Don't throw in the towel! I had a similar problem running my little Audio Technica turntable through my "toy" Onkyo amp... for me it turned out that the TT was on a hollow desk / cabinet / wood thing like yours, the pick up was getting feedback form the speakers, through the cabinet (NOT from the floor btw) and coming through... I'm nowhere near an expert in sound waves, but moving my TT off that cabinet corrected the issue for me...

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 minute ago, Telecine said:

Try some better isolation for the TT.

Any recommendations for how to do this?

Is having the TT on a wooden cabinet going to be an insurmountable problem?

[Telecine]

3 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Any recommendations for how to do this?

Is having the TT on a wooden cabinet going to be an insurmountable problem?

Try a slate slab or even a concrete paver on three squash balls. You can use the caps from a plastic milk carton to hold the squash balls in position.

 

The wooden cabinet shouldn't be an insurmountable problem.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Telecine

[BATMAQN]

6 minutes ago, Telecine said:

Try a slate slab or even a concrete paver on three squash balls

This may be a silly question but why 3 wouldn't 4 be better?

[Telecine]

Just now, BATMAQN said:

This may be a silly question but why 3 wouldn't 4 be better?

Self-levelling.

[BATMAQN]

Just now, Telecine said:

Self-levelling.

Ah yes fair enough ta.

[sir sanders zingmore]

14 minutes ago, Simonon said:

Looking at your setup you will need to attach a shelf to your wall for your tunrtable.

Unfortunately that is not an option 

[sir sanders zingmore]

12 minutes ago, Telecine said:

Try a slate slab or even a concrete paver on three squash balls. You can use the caps from a plastic milk carton to hold the squash balls in position.

 

The wooden cabinet shouldn't be an insurmountable problem.

My concern with that is whether the cabinet can handle the extra weight. The Line Magnetic amp is like 40kg already !

[Telecine]

Just now, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

My concern with that is whether the cabinet can handle the extra weight. The Line Magnetic amp is like 40kg already !

Should be fine but take a photo of the aftermath if I am wrong  

[Guest yamaha_man]

Time to get a decent turntable, cart and phono mate! Presto! Problem fixed!

[unclemack]

My last setup had the TT on a heavy rack on a wooden floor but it was closer to my seating position. Never had any feedback or rumble issue even at 106db. Where I am now I’m lucky to have a slab as well as the tt placed on a brick shelf so, even at very high spl with several old fellas dancing about, not a problem at all. The point being, if you can place the TT away from between the speakers, you might get some improvement, even with a wooden floor.

[vivianbl]

Any recommendations for how to do this?
Is having the TT on a wooden cabinet going to be an insurmountable problem?

If you were playing loud, then most likely it was causing mega vibration through floor and cabinet impacting on TT.

I found positioning on side wall, better than between the speakers.

I used an Auralex speaker isolation platform $109.00 to isolate my Linn Sondek. An IKEA bamboo butchers block ($19.00) with 3* megahexa dampers ($14.00) was also effective.
On the other hand you could spend thousand on High End Isolation stuff[emoji6]

Like those horns![emoji2]

[buddyev]

21 minutes ago, Telecine said:

Try a slate slab or even a concrete paver on three squash balls. You can use the caps from a plastic milk carton to hold the squash balls in position.

The wooden cabinet shouldn't be an insurmountable problem.

squash balls work ok but sorbothane hemispheres under the slate are a bit less obtrusive — I have some you can have.

Edited November 1, 2018 by buddyev

[Full Range]

Yes I agree with just about all the suggestions made above 

Only try one item at a time so you can pinpoint the culprit 

 

Isolation should be the first item on the list 

Apart from the good suggestions above you can also try a cheap kids toy called a hacky sack 

Get as many as you require 

 

[Rocketfrogs]

24 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

My concern with that is whether the cabinet can handle the extra weight. The Line Magnetic amp is like 40kg already !

It looks like the Line Magnetic is ready to fling the turntable skywards any second....

[t_mike]

The stand you have looks like a big hollow box, the same design they use for speakers because of it's natural resonance and amplification qualities. Your cartridge is basically a microphone. Think about it...

 

Try stuffing the stand with blankets/pillows/towels and see if that alleviates the problems. It may not give the actual sound you want, but if it helps, you know where you have to work. If you build a large heavy duty plinth for the whole stand, it will help with footfall problems, especially if you have floorboards as opposed to sheets.

Edited November 1, 2018 by t_mike

[Wimbo]

54 minutes ago, candyflip said:

I've got a car with a really squeaky door that I can hear, but no-one else that gets in is terribly bothered by.

Should I sell it and get a motorcycle instead?
Problem solved.....

 

I did.

[rantan]

8 minutes ago, t_mike said:

..

 

Try stuffing the stand with blankets/pillows/towels and see if that alleviates the problems. It may not give the actual sound you want, but if it helps, you know where you have to work.

 

Maybe he could just stick the TT in the linen closet?

[Wimbo]

1 hour ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Any recommendations for how to do this?

Is having the TT on a wooden cabinet going to be an insurmountable problem?

Its like speakers. What ever you put them on is going to influence the sound. I'd isolate the rest of the kit from the turntable if you are having problems. Separate (stable) table for the turntable. Then you can run different boards under the table for experiment.I think you need damping around the system as well. That window scare me. I dont have a very expensive system but I've listened for decades and  am using a Sota Nova and a SME M2 arm with a newly rebuilt Dynavctor 23R, original stylus and cantilever running into a PHO8. Its better then my Grado VPI Ref and my AT33SA cartridges. The 17D is supposed to be better then that, so maybe a TT/arm mismatch as well. Also, you are going to be very opinionated on how your system sounds and I feel you had a bad day. Look from the mountain top and work it out. Wont be hard.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Wimbo

[Krispy Audio]

I've found a huge difference in surface noise between different cartridges (different stylii shapes). Maybe it's time to try something else? Also had a customer with some feedback issues in his vinyl system which was remedied with some speaker resonance control and a little for his rack and TT.