Ants01 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Hi All Currently upgrading a Thorens TD 125. It is in mint condition with original TP 25 tonearm, but have read the SME 3009 tonearm (which was a config option when it was originally sold) is better if I want to use a modern, high compliance cartridge. Any advice appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ants01 said: Hi All Currently upgrading a Thorens TD 125. It is in mint condition with original TP 25 tonearm, but have read the SME 3009 tonearm (which was a config option when it was originally sold) is better if I want to use a modern, high compliance cartridge. Any advice appreciated. Thanks! A high compliance cartridge (which generally means an MM cart) - modern or old - requires an arm with a low effective mass. According to the Vinyl Engine arm data base, the 3009 Series 2 comes in 3 different effective weights: 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm (very low) 3009 Series 2 S2 improved - 9.5gm (low-medium) 3009 Series 2 - 12.5gm (medium) Andy Edited September 27, 2018 by andyr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 7 hours ago, andyr said: 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm (very low) 3009 Series 2 S2 improved - 9.5gm (low-medium) 3009 Series 2 - 12.5gm (medium) and the Thorens arm is about 16 g, so yes, it would be better, but what cartridge were you thinking of using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, aussievintage said: and the Thorens arm is about 16 g, so yes, it would be better, but what cartridge were you thinking of using? 16g would make it too heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Wimbo said: 16g would make it too heavy. I think that was the point of switching to the SME for high compliance carts, yes. To clarify, I was saying it would be better to use the SME. Edited September 27, 2018 by aussievintage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, aussievintage said: I think that was the point of switching to the SME for high compliance carts, yes. Pardon mate, missunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, Wimbo said: Pardon mate, missunderstood. Ha, no probs, my sentence was poorly constructed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 8 hours ago, andyr said: A high compliance cartridge (which generally means an MM cart) - modern or old - requires an arm with a low effective mass. According to the Vinyl Engine arm data base, the 3009 Series 2 comes in 3 different effective weights: 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm (very low) 3009 Series 2 S2 improved - 9.5gm (low-medium) 3009 Series 2 - 12.5gm (medium) Andy 52 minutes ago, aussievintage said: and the Thorens arm is about 16 g, so yes, it would be better, but what cartridge were you thinking of using? You quoted my post with your above answer … but you really need to ask the OP what cart he's intending to use. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, andyr said: You quoted my post with your above answer … but you really need to ask the OP what cart he's intending to use. Andy You are correct Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ants01 Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 Hi There. Thinking of using an Ortofon 2M black - compliance rating is 20, so I'm aiming to find a 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm. I think that combination should put me in a good resonance range. Does that sound right to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ants01 said: Hi There. Thinking of using an Ortofon 2M black - compliance rating is 20, so I'm aiming to find a 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm. I think that combination should put me in a good resonance range. Does that sound right to you? That'll give you 9 or 10Hz resonance. Good. Have you seen this page? https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=6.5&submit=Submit Very handy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, aussievintage said: That'll give you 9 or 10Hz resonance. Good. Have you seen this page? https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=6.5&submit=Submit Very handy Vinyl Engine is almost the bible of vinyl playback info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 18 hours ago, Ants01 said: Hi There. Thinking of using an Ortofon 2M black - compliance rating is 20, so I'm aiming to find a 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm. I think that combination should put me in a good resonance range. Does that sound right to you? The Vinyl Engine "Cart Resonance Calculator" shows the 3009 Series 2 S2 improved - at 9.5gm eff weight - is good too. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freaky1 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 S2 improved = removable headshell , effective mass 9.5grams Series II Improved = fixed headshell, effective mass 6.5 grams Very confusing from SME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjay Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 On 27/09/2018 at 6:50 PM, Ants01 said: Hi There. Thinking of using an Ortofon 2M black - compliance rating is 20, so I'm aiming to find a 3009 Series 2 improved - 6.5gm. I think that combination should put me in a good resonance range. Does that sound right to you? I have a 2M black on one here at home (Thorens 124 MK2) and it sounds pretty darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Resonance calculations aside, I have had Shures, Ortofons, ATs, Stantons, and probably others I have forgotten, also different weighted headshells, on my SME 3009 arms (series II and improved), and all seem to work great. It's a great versatile arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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