Power Regenerators. Are they worth it? Do they contribute anything to the HI FI System?

[eltech]

20 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Mains bourne interference cannot make it's way through the power transformer, rectifiers and filters.

Funny you say that, because...... I'm fairly sure it can. I have probed the output of a regulator whilst connecting and disconnecting a ferrite on the mains cable and on the CRO I saw the noise reduce when the ferrite was fitted.

My own observation is my only basis for my comment.

I use them on my equipment.

Perhaps only some transformers let HF get past? I'm not sure.

I only commented to share an observation. I wasnt trying to prove you wrong. I was just adding to the conversation.

I don't know what the post regualator noise was. I just know that it decreased in amplitude when the ferrite was fitted to the mains cable.

Edited September 20, 2018 by eltech

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

5 minutes ago, eltech said:

Funny you say that, because...... yes it can. I have probed the output of a regulator whilst connecting and disconnecting a ferrite on the mains cable and on the CRO I saw the noise reduce when the ferrite was fitted.

My own observation is my only basis for my comment.

I use them on my equipment.

Perhaps only some transformers let HF get past? I'm not sure.

I'm just sharing an observation.

What kind of regulator?

 

Do the math.

A typical power transformer is designed to pass 50Hz and reject anything higher in frequency by a very significant amount. Just how much, depends on the type transformer. Toroidals are the worst performers, whilst 'R' cores are the best. Everything else ('EI', 'C' and double C cores) are somewhere in the middle. Let's say you're looking for a 10kHz transient, then, with an EI transformer, you could expect that the transient would be at least 30dB down. Admittedly, a toroidal could be far worse than this. Maybe as bad as 5dB. 

 

A cheap, LM317 regulator will attenuate that 10kHz by a further 60dB or so. Then there's all the capacitors in the circuit, where even more attenuation will occur. How much depends on the type and amount of capacitance.

 

Short answer: I don't know how or what you were measuring, but I doubt your test equipment (ANYONE'S test equipment) could see any differences. 

 

Then, of course, you have the inherent noise reduction in all modern SS equipment, which amounts to at least another 30dB. 

[Craig G]

You need to demo and see how it works in your system . The P10 most definitely improved my high end system, quiet black background better resolution! No question

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Craig G

[eltech]

15 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

but I doubt

Perhaps check it for yourself next time you've got the lid off something, and a ferrite about. Then you'll have no reason to doubt. You'll either see something or you wont.

I know what I saw.

[Snoopy8]

16 hours ago, Assisi said:

 

@Jake123 My suggestion to any one is, don’t take my advice or that of any one else.  This is something that needs to be experienced.  Try power treatment in your own system and make up your own mind. 

That is probably the best advice. Try it yourself and let your ears be the judge.   Results may vary with equipment.

 

As OP has seen in the thread, it is contentious with strong views on both sides which often degenerate to heated debates 

[Guest rmpfyf]

8 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Frequency of Australian mains supply is VERY close to 50Hz all the time.

Easy there. Whilst the mainland keeps frequency within our tolerance requirements, compared to many grids our frequency regulation isn't that tight. In a relative sense we don't do so well. Whether it's good enough, or at all audible, is another matter.

 

8 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Most mid sized homes require around 25kW of peak power. Is your regenerator capable of that?

Huh? Most homes are reticulated at considerably less. I've logged a 1-second maximum of just under 12kW including electric HVAC, dryer and car charging.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

12 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Easy there. Whilst the mainland keeps frequency within our tolerance requirements, compared to many grids our frequency regulation isn't that tight. In a relative sense we don't do so well. Whether it's good enough, or at all audible, is another matter.

Of course it is not audible, unless you happen to be using an old belt drive turntable, using a synchronous motor. My point is that the very minor (and they are insignificant) frequency variations are just that - insignificant.

 

12 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

 

Huh? Most homes are reticulated at considerably less. I've logged a 1-second maximum of just under 12kW including electric HVAC, dryer and car charging.

I'll take your word for it. I'd still like to see the claimant's regenerator that can supply his entire home. It would need to be sized for the maximum anticipated peak power consumption. 

[Guest rmpfyf]

@Zaphod Beeblebrox

 

Agreed. There's probably money in a device audiophiles can buy, plug in and log/test power quality. 

 

There's market for it. Cheaper than calling over a proper power engineer with a $50k Yokogawa and time. 

 

I've got people that can develop this. Interested in collaborating?

[Ittaku]

2 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Agreed. There's probably money in a device audiophiles can buy, plug in and log/test power quality.

True, but there's much more money in selling things to audiophiles with pseudoscientific claims that don't require evidence of any demonstrable effect.

[Guest rmpfyf]

Just now, Ittaku said:

True, but there's much more money in selling things to audiophiles with pseudoscientific claims that don't require evidence of any demonstrable effect.

True  how about an Energy Polarizer then  

[Ittaku]

Just now, rmpfyf said:

True  how about an Energy Polarizer then  

Oh dear Peter Brock... how far you fell. Bless his departed soul.

[andyr]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Of course it is not audible, unless you happen to be using an old belt drive turntable, using a synchronous motor.

 

Careful, now, Trevor ... I hope your not implying that any belt-drive TT which uses an AC synchronous motor is an "old TT"!! 

 

You can get motor speed controllers for AC motors - like the one I'm using - which generate their own sine wave ... so variations on the mains feed frequency don't have any effect. 

 

Andy

[Hydrology]

11 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

No. Everything starts with the room/speaker interaction. Those are, by a very considerable margin, the most important parts of any audio system. 

One cannot begin to discover room/speaker interaction without power to begin with. Otherwise there is no sound!

[Mat-with-one-t]

Not a reconditioner, however....

 

[Assisi]

On 19/09/2018 at 10:56 PM, MLXXX said:

Do you mean a background noise that is audible between tracks of a CD, or tracks of a vinyl disc?  What does the noise sound like?

@MLXXX

To me noise floor is a very low-level background interference or distortion noise that is not part of the recording and is there all the time when the CD is playing and  not just between the CD tracks.  It is not there when the system is idle.  There could be various causes and also various strategies to mitigate the interference depending on the cause(s).  I cannot describe precisely what it sounds like.  It is one of those things that when it is gone you know it, because it is no longer there.  You don't think that it is an issue until it has gone and then you have an ah! moment.

For me a power conditioner definitely was a benefit.  When the noise floor is reduced or removed there is an almost noticeable silence or actual silence between the notes of for example a guitar.  

I think that it is what some people refer to as a black background.  You are then only hearing the recorded sound and the whole listening experience is definitely more pleasurable, engaging and emotional.

John

[Snoopy8]

48 minutes ago, Assisi said:

  I cannot describe precisely what it sounds like.  It is one of those things that when it is gone you know it, because it is no longer there.  You don't think that it is an issue until it has gone and then you have an ah! moment.

For me a power conditioner definitely was a benefit.  When the noise floor is reduced or removed there is an almost noticeable silence or actual silence between the notes of for example a guitar.  

+1 
I found it difficult to comprehend the "absence of noise" until I experienced it myself.  A lowering of the noise floor or blacker background are phrases that others have used.  And it is a noticeable change...

[MLXXX]

 

1 hour ago, Assisi said:

To me noise floor is a very low-level background interference or distortion noise that is not part of the recording and is there all the time when the CD is playing and  not just between the CD tracks.  It is not there when the system is idle. ...

 

42 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

+1 
I found it difficult to comprehend the "absence of noise" until I experienced it myself.  A lowering of the noise floor or blacker background are phrases that others have used. ...

 

With test equipment the spurious noise would measure as THD, if it is only present when signal is present. (Of course the test frequency used would need to be such that it triggered the spurious noise.)

Having measured a heightened THD attributable to the spurious noise, it would then be possible to alter the power supply conditions and see what effect that had on the measured level of THD.

Edited September 25, 2018 by MLXXX

[Assisi]

On 20/09/2018 at 6:37 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Some listeners are peculiarly resistant to logic, common-sense and proper blind testing procedures and will be swayed by snake oil promoters. Other listeners may be more logical and prepared to be subject to a proper blind test to establish the veracity of the claims surrounding products that are not needed in the vast majority of systems.

@Zaphod Beeblebrox

 

I still consider that the matter of power treatment with our audio systems is contentious.  You obviously disagree.  It is also clear to me at least, that I am not unique in my perspective.   We will just have to continue to agree to disagree. 

 

I consider the way you express your fanatical disdain for the topic of power treatment in any form contributes to the contentiousness of the topic.  You regularly use mockery and  trivialisation .  An example is in your first post in this thread.  To me it is no better than the problem you have with the wording from the Acrolink site.  Do you have a scientific or engineering definition for “diddly”  How do you measure “diddly”?

 

I suppose from your perspective there is no hope for anybody such as me in that I am peculiar, unable to apply logic, have no common sense and sin of sin I do not undertake blind testing (I am not interested).  To suggest the above failings in people who have a different perspective to the one you hold is at best disrespectful.  As for snake oil.  I seek very good advice and guidance from people whose knowledge and experience I trust and I know I can rely upon. 

 

Audio to me is about amicably exploring the possible and pushing the limits.  Sometimes that occasionally may involve making mistakes and learning from the experience.  It is not about closing off options to audio nirvana.  I will say it again.  The matter of power is contentious.  I would suggest that people if they are interested, should try power treatment for themselves and not take any notice whatsoever of either of us and make up their own minds.  I predict some will be rewarded with a beneficial outcome.

 

John

Edited September 25, 2018 by Assisi

[Guest rmpfyf]

On 20/09/2018 at 3:38 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

I'll take your word for it. I'd still like to see the claimant's regenerator that can supply his entire home. It would need to be sized for the maximum anticipated peak power consumption. 

 

Thought to add a point here - there's plenty of residential-grade power hardware capable of this much, particularly in the solar PV field (whether coupled to an MPPT or as an inverter/charger). 

 

Some of it is quite good with excellent control over mains harmonics, frequency performance, etc. 

 

It is extremely rare that a modern home would pass over a few kW of average load, and though peak loads can be well in excess of this these are typically very short-term events (seconds or less). Even then such equipment is typically rated to sustain these loads and appropriately form mains AC with or in lieu of the grid. 

 

The same goes for devices that alter voltage or other factors of power correction (voltage and power factor correction particularly). Residential applications just don't constitute a particularly large load in a power engineering context. Sure, we're unlikely to find a 'regenerator' (a word that can mean many approaches) capable of supplying a whole home load in a hifi form factor, but it's not quite correct to view it all through an audiophile lens or assumption set, and the average audio rig conversely doesn't care whether it's electrons come from a pretty box or an ugly grey one, so long as it's effective and reticulation pre and post is good (and safe). 

 

I'd not be so quick to write off power concerns as insignificant or any sensitivity as poor design. I can call out mains voltage within 5VAC by what comes out of my rig - for what's sensitive (likely the valve-rectified front end in the DAC) mains quality counts. Yes, it could be made differently for more consistent performance across a variety of mains conditions though this isn't a crap design, I like the noise it makes more than something that'd have not cared so much about what mains did and frankly that the quality of mains in Australia is particularly variant shouldn't surprise anyone. Biggest transmisson/distribution network in the world, one of the highest rates of renewable penetration particularly at local generation levels and open conjecture on whether things are engineered to a new or old mains voltage standard. Our mainland mains frequency distribution - whilst in tolerance - is fairly hilarious compared to other western nations (you're welcome to pull the 4-second trade off AEMO's FTP and view it yourself if you like). 

 

If you're not living metro, power quality can get particularly squiffy. There are audiophiles on single-phase distribution and at the end of SWER lines too. 

 

In short Zaph I'd permit some allowance for people's experiences here. The other offer remains open  

 

(But really it's a small power application. I've been obtuse once and managed a 5-minute single-phase maximum of 11.94kW for the home including HVAC, dryer, car charging, cooking etc all electrically powered - and to be fair without some careful management in distribution most houses would have tripped out long prior). 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 26/09/2018 at 9:36 AM, Assisi said:

@Zaphod Beeblebrox

 

I still consider that the matter of power treatment with our audio systems is contentious.  You obviously disagree.

 

Nope. I believe I have been quite specific and precise in when and why power treatment could be helpful in a TINY minority of systems. Please read my other posts on this matter, before misquoting me.

 

On 26/09/2018 at 9:36 AM, Assisi said:

 

 

  It is also clear to me at least, that I am not unique in my perspective.   We will just have to continue to agree to disagree. 

 

I consider the way you express your fanatical disdain for the topic of power treatment in any form contributes to the contentiousness of the topic.

 

 

Again, you are misquoting me.

On 26/09/2018 at 9:36 AM, Assisi said:

 

  You regularly use mockery and  trivialisation .  An example is in your first post in this thread.  To me it is no better than the problem you have with the wording from the Acrolink site.  Do you have a scientific or engineering definition for “diddly”  How do you measure “diddly”?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/diddly?s=t

 

On 26/09/2018 at 9:36 AM, Assisi said:

 

I suppose from your perspective there is no hope for anybody such as me in that I am peculiar, unable to apply logic, have no common sense and sin of sin I do not undertake blind testing (I am not interested).

 

I consider that a grave error of logic, common sense and rational thinking. Blind testing is, presently, the gold standard in everything from car tyres to pharmaceuticals. I take that you have taken drugs at some time in your life? How would you feel if those drugs had not undergone careful evaluation using proper, double blind (Placebo) testing? I should add that, like everything in life, double blind testing is not perfect. It just happens to be the very best we have right now. Uncontrolled, sighted testing is, arguably, the very worst.

On 26/09/2018 at 9:36 AM, Assisi said:

 

  To suggest the above failings in people who have a different perspective to the one you hold is at best disrespectful.  As for snake oil.  I seek very good advice and guidance from people whose knowledge and experience I trust and I know I can rely upon. 

 

Uh-huh.

On 26/09/2018 at 9:36 AM, Assisi said:

Audio to me is about amicably exploring the possible and pushing the limits.  Sometimes that occasionally may involve making mistakes and learning from the experience.  It is not about closing off options to audio nirvana.  I will say it again.  The matter of power is contentious.  I would suggest that people if they are interested, should try power treatment for themselves and not take any notice whatsoever of either of us and make up their own minds.  I predict some will be rewarded with a beneficial outcome.

 

John

I suggest you read my comments about power treatment before you make bold assumptions. I have contributed a considerable amount to this forum in this area. 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

 

Thought to add a point here - there's plenty of residential-grade power hardware capable of this much, particularly in the solar PV field (whether coupled to an MPPT or as an inverter/charger). 

 

Some of it is quite good with excellent control over mains harmonics, frequency performance, etc. 

 

It is extremely rare that a modern home would pass over a few kW of average load, and though peak loads can be well in excess of this these are typically very short-term events (seconds or less). Even then such equipment is typically rated to sustain these loads and appropriately form mains AC with or in lieu of the grid. 

My back-of-the-napkin calculations for a worst case scenario for my household would be:

 

2 X 2.2kVA air cons

1 X 650 Watt air con

1 X 1kVA pool filter (since removed)

1 X 2kVA Off-peak hot water heater (Assumed power consumption) Let's not even discuss instantaneous!

1 X 300 Watt Water bed heater (Winter usage)
1 X 300 Watt Plasma TV

1 X 2kVA Oven

1 X 1kVA stove top

1 X 1kVA microwave oven

1 X 400 Watt Miscellaneous lighting, computer, etc. 

 

That adds up to a PEAK power demand (which may extend over an hour or more) of 13kVA. That is quite a large DOMESTIC PURE SINE WAVE inverter. And mine is a small household. I'd hate to see how much my neighbour racks up with two late teenage daughters, a very large ducted air-con, pool heater, etc. My neighbour two doors away, has a six bedroom home, with the most massive air-con I've seen in a domestic situation, internal lift, pool heating, 5 children in their early 20s, etc. Power consumption must be massive. 

 

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

 

The same goes for devices that alter voltage or other factors of power correction (voltage and power factor correction particularly). Residential applications just don't constitute a particularly large load in a power engineering context. Sure, we're unlikely to find a 'regenerator' (a word that can mean many approaches) capable of supplying a whole home load in a hifi form factor, but it's not quite correct to view it all through an audiophile lens or assumption set, and the average audio rig conversely doesn't care whether it's electrons come from a pretty box or an ugly grey one, so long as it's effective and reticulation pre and post is good (and safe). 

I agree, though part of the reason for using a specialist audio grade power regenerator is to obtain vanishingly low levels of distortion on the mains (for reasons that no proponent has ever properly explained). 

 

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

 

I'd not be so quick to write off power concerns as insignificant or any sensitivity as poor design. I can call out mains voltage within 5VAC by what comes out of my rig - for what's sensitive (likely the valve-rectified front end in the DAC) mains quality counts.

Well, yes. And, if you cared to read my previous posts on this matter, I have carefully explained that poorly designed equipment and/or equipment that is used in areas of particularly poor quality mains supply, may benefit from the use of a regenerator. This has been bourne out by my own testing. 

 

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

Yes, it could be made differently for more consistent performance across a variety of mains conditions though this isn't a crap design, I like the noise it makes more than something that'd have not cared so much about what mains did and frankly that the quality of mains in Australia is particularly variant shouldn't surprise anyone. Biggest transmisson/distribution network in the world, one of the highest rates of renewable penetration particularly at local generation levels and open conjecture on whether things are engineered to a new or old mains voltage standard. Our mainland mains frequency distribution - whilst in tolerance - is fairly hilarious compared to other western nations (you're welcome to pull the 4-second trade off AEMO's FTP and view it yourself if you like). 

 

If you're not living metro, power quality can get particularly squiffy. There are audiophiles on single-phase distribution and at the end of SWER lines too. 

 

In short Zaph I'd permit some allowance for people's experiences here. The other offer remains open  

Already done. Read my other posts on this matter. People in parts of WA, for instance, have a excellent case to consider proper regulation of their mains supply. 

 

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

 

(But really it's a small power application. I've been obtuse once and managed a 5-minute single-phase maximum of 11.94kW for the home including HVAC, dryer, car charging, cooking etc all electrically powered - and to be fair without some careful management in distribution most houses would have tripped out long prior). 

Oh, I forgot about my clothes drying. It hasn't been used in 12 years. 

[sloper]

Goodaye all

 

l think a important point has been missed here.

Unless you really have crap power 240v you are trying to make up for a poorly designed power supply in your equipment, l'll just step out now and put on my asbestos suit on.

 

GO PIES!

 

regards Bruce

[crisis]

On 26/09/2018 at 9:06 AM, Assisi said:

I would suggest that people if they are interested, should try power treatment for themselves and not take any notice whatsoever of either of us and make up their own minds.  I predict some will be rewarded with a beneficial outcome.

 

John

The problem is that "trying" these rather expensive pieces of ancillary equipment means in many cases a significant outlay on something that may not make any difference. In most responses Zaphods advice is to people who are trying to determine if it is worth spending money on these things and his advice backed up by scientific experience is valuable. If someone who has heard both arguments and is still prepared to pay the money and take their chance to see if something makes an improvement I doubt anyone cares.

 

[Guest rmpfyf]

28 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

My back-of-the-napkin calculations for a worst case scenario for my household would be:

 

2 X 2.2kVA air cons

1 X 650 Watt air con

1 X 1kVA pool filter (since removed)

1 X 2kVA Off-peak hot water heater (Assumed power consumption) Let's not even discuss instantaneous!

1 X 300 Watt Water bed heater (Winter usage)
1 X 300 Watt Plasma TV

1 X 2kVA Oven

1 X 1kVA stove top

1 X 1kVA microwave oven

1 X 400 Watt Miscellaneous lighting, computer, etc. 

 

That adds up to a PEAK power demand (which may extend over an hour or more) of 13kVA. That is quite a large DOMESTIC PURE SINE WAVE inverter. And mine is a small household. I'd hate to see how much my neighbour racks up with two late teenage daughters, a very large ducted air-con, pool heater, etc. My neighbour two doors away, has a six bedroom home, with the most massive air-con I've seen in a domestic situation, internal lift, pool heating, 5 children in their early 20s, etc. Power consumption must be massive. 

 

The odds of your loads peaking at the same time are extremely small. I keep an interval data set (public domain) of some 2500 Australian homes, and the average half hour power is well under 3kVA. Homes are of course reticulated and fused for worst case scenarios, though bear in mind that the worst case is not a common event. Less than 1% of the time - actually less than an order of magnitude less. On top of which your may well be limited from using less than your maximum possible by line capacity within your home. 

 

On top of which it's possible to have specialist equipment that doesn't support all loads under all conditions (actually something becoming more common). 

 

So no, resi grade equipment can do a home just fine. 

 

32 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

I agree, though part of the reason for using a specialist audio grade power regenerator is to obtain vanishingly low levels of distortion on the mains (for reasons that no proponent has ever properly explained). 

 

Sure there have been - I'd ask you (as you've asked myself and others) to read around. 

 

Your gear may be Class A. You may hear a difference for whatever reason. You may just like regeneration equipment. 

 

I hear a difference in blind testing, though the results vary depending time of day... as does mains quality. 

 

34 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Well, yes. And, if you cared to read my previous posts on this matter, I have carefully explained that poorly designed equipment and/or equipment that is used in areas of particularly poor quality mains supply, may benefit from the use of a regenerator. This has been bourne out by my own testing. 

 

Your use of 'poorly designed' is subjective. My DAC has a positively archaic design that is very sensitive to mains voltage, and it sounds glorious. Less glorious when the mains is bouncing off 255VAC. 

 

It is completely possible to design something with broad insensitivity to wide mains voltage inputs. I'd have to completely forget how to be an engineer to suggest that this alone doesn't come with other compromises. 

 

Whether these are audible to you or others is a further matter of subjectivity. I'd be loathe to force my subjective opinion on qualitative matters to others, not least as correlation isn't causation by any stretch. 

 

37 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Already done. Read my other posts on this matter. People in parts of WA, for instance, have a excellent case to consider proper regulation of their mains supply. 

 

People in WA are the tip of a very large iceberg. I've read many of your posts, I've an impression (possibly incorrect) that you may underestimate the nature and geography of variance in mains power quality.

 

Power quality standards and requirements thereof vary significantly regionally. If I've intimated @Assisi's location correctly, it's a known place where supply voltage is affected very significantly by local generation - swings in mains voltage are strong with a significant number of people resorting to voltage correction equipment solely to allow their solar PV system to continue to function is a manner compliant with distribution requirements. 

 

And yes - when a DNSP needs to tweak a feeder or transformer to take exceptional measures to maintain voltage within limits - that's quite audible, and (get your power analysers out) quite visible. It's completely rational to have a desire for a consistency of performance of one's audio system without resorting to accepting an audible performance variance simply because most of your neighbourhood thought solar PV was a great idea (it is). 

 

43 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Oh, I forgot about my clothes drying. It hasn't been used in 12 years. 

 

An excellent thing to have when reno'ing your backyard  

 

22 minutes ago, crisis said:

The problem is that "trying" these rather expensive pieces of ancillary equipment means in many cases a significant outlay on something that may not make any difference. In most responses Zaphods advice is to people who are trying to determine if it is worth spending money on these things and his advice backed up by scientific experience is valuable. If someone who has heard both arguments and is still prepared to pay the money and take their chance to see if something makes an improvement I doubt anyone cares.

 

There's a gap here in working out whether it's likely to make a difference or not. It is possible - there are people, power engineering specialists - that can install some logging equipment at your place, have a good look at mains over a period of time and then work out a plan. Some have even played around the fringes of audio enough to talk to whether it's positive or wasted cash. 

 

They're not common but they're out there and, for some (given they're not cheap to engage) it's a worthy outlay. 

[Jventer]

2 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

 

The odds of your loads peaking at the same time are extremely small. I keep an interval data set (public domain) of some 2500 Australian homes, and the average half hour power is well under 3kVA. Homes are of course reticulated and fused for worst case scenarios, though bear in mind that the worst case is not a common event. Less than 1% of the time - actually less than an order of magnitude less. On top of which your may well be limited from using less than your maximum possible by line capacity within your home. 

 

On top of which it's possible to have specialist equipment that doesn't support all loads under all conditions (actually something becoming more common). 

 

So no, resi grade equipment can do a home just fine. 

 

 

Sure there have been - I'd ask you (as you've asked myself and others) to read around. 

 

Your gear may be Class A. You may hear a difference for whatever reason. You may just like regeneration equipment. 

 

I hear a difference in blind testing, though the results vary depending time of day... as does mains quality. 

 

 

Your use of 'poorly designed' is subjective. My DAC has a positively archaic design that is very sensitive to mains voltage, and it sounds glorious. Less glorious when the mains is bouncing off 255VAC. 

 

It is completely possible to design something with broad insensitivity to wide mains voltage inputs. I'd have to completely forget how to be an engineer to suggest that this alone doesn't come with other compromises. 

 

Whether these are audible to you or others is a further matter of subjectivity. I'd be loathe to force my subjective opinion on qualitative matters to others, not least as correlation isn't causation by any stretch. 

 

 

People in WA are the tip of a very large iceberg. I've read many of your posts, I've an impression (possibly incorrect) that you may underestimate the nature and geography of variance in mains power quality.

 

Power quality standards and requirements thereof vary significantly regionally. If I've intimated @Assisi's location correctly, it's a known place where supply voltage is affected very significantly by local generation - swings in mains voltage are strong with a significant number of people resorting to voltage correction equipment solely to allow their solar PV system to continue to function is a manner compliant with distribution requirements. 

 

And yes - when a DNSP needs to tweak a feeder or transformer to take exceptional measures to maintain voltage within limits - that's quite audible, and (get your power analysers out) quite visible. It's completely rational to have a desire for a consistency of performance of one's audio system without resorting to accepting an audible performance variance simply because most of your neighbourhood thought solar PV was a great idea (it is). 

 

 

An excellent thing to have when reno'ing your backyard  

 

 

There's a gap here in working out whether it's likely to make a difference or not. It is possible - there are people, power engineering specialists - that can install some logging equipment at your place, have a good look at mains over a period of time and then work out a plan. Some have even played around the fringes of audio enough to talk to whether it's positive or wasted cash. 

 

They're not common but they're out there and, for some (given they're not cheap to engage) it's a worthy outlay. 

Oneof the best postsnI have read in a long time.