Rebuilding phono system completely

[iz_thewiz]

Hi guys, 

 

I am in the process of overhauling my phono system in its entirety by moving away from essentially a DJ system, and so I’m looking for advice and suggestions for relevant components.  

 

My current system includes:

- Technics SL 1200 MK2

- Shure M447 cartridge

- Rane TTM 56 (2 channel mixer/phono stage)

 

So firstly the turntable; based on my research and budget the Rega Planar 6 is my first choice. The NEO PSU with 33/45rpm toggle switch is essential to me and is included with the Planar 6 unlike the Planar 3. I’ve seen nothing but great reviews for both turntables, but I’m not sure if they are truly considered high-end amongst the industry and community, and for the average price tag of $2000 I want to make the right investment. 

 

I’m still doing a lot of research on cartridge and pre-amp options, and I’m assuming that this area can be highly subjective as pairing and matching may be an ongoing practice. By this I mean that the foundation of the system will be the turntable, further components added to that system can be assessed and changed if required, especially cartridges. 

 

That being said, my research and budget has drawn me to the combination of the Schiit Mani Phono Stage with a Nagaoka series cartridge, preferably the MP-150. 

Nagaoka seems to be attracting a lot of praise, I’m just having issues finding a dealer in Australia. Apart from eBay, does anybody know where they can be purchased currently? 

 

So this is my intended system for now which I’ll be integrating into my current home studio system. I would definitely like some feedback on my choices and or alternative suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks for the read. 

[Guest]

Matt, if your Technics is in decent condition, you'd be hard pressed to better it for 2k. My feeling is to put the money toward a better cartridge and phono to maximise your end result.

 

What are your musical tastes?

[A9X]

43 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Matt, if your Technics is in decent condition, you'd be hard pressed to better it for 2k. My feeling is to put the money toward a better cartridge and phono to maximise your end result.

Ditto. I don't see how a Rega is an improvement.

[Batty]

Keep the Techie as already said above, a Vincent Pho-8 or 701 phono and an MP500 or 2M black would then be in your budget.

[iz_thewiz]

I’m really surprised and confused here. I know the Technics are solid turntables in terms of build but I never saw them as a high-end product much like the Rega is marketed. 

 

My other option was to service and potentially mod or upgrade internal components in the Technics and then improve the Phono Stage from there. Is this truly the better option?

 

Thanks for the replies!

[Happy]

Truly better option is to upgrade your cartridge 

[Andrews_melb]

Yep best phono stage and cart you can afford.

if youve got 2k or so to play with and already a fine TT then you’ll be grinning in no time with a proper phono stage (personally i dont think those mixer type ones count)

I think a fair few members on here run with that style of TT with higher end carts

 

this is just my view, and im a rega rp3 owner and love it. 

[audiofeline]

20 minutes ago, iz_thewiz said:

I’m really surprised and confused here. I know the Technics are solid turntables in terms of build but I never saw them as a high-end product much like the Rega is marketed. 

 

My other option was to service and potentially mod or upgrade internal components in the Technics and then improve the Phono Stage from there. Is this truly the better option?

 

Thanks for the replies!

Technics made some fine turntables, and the SL 1200 MK2 has a good reputation as being better than many turntables. 

"I never saw them as a high-end product much like the Rega is marketed" - your words say it all, marketing talk doesn't always match what is delivered.  Rega have some ordinary budget turntables, and I believe that their better quality can be reasonable.  Trust your ears, be wary of marketing. 

 

I think there is information on the internet about improvement mod's for the Technics (and arm replacements), by all means explore them if you are curious and try them if they are not too expensive.  I would tend to agree with the above advice, to start by upgrading the cartridge, and to get a good phono stage.  These can be easily upgraded, and done in stages, and should deliver an increase in quality.  If you can't quite afford them both now, spend more money on one and then save up for the other.  Even if you decide to upgrade the Technics later, you can still keep the cart and phono stage. 

 

Enjoy!

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, iz_thewiz said:

I’m really surprised and confused here. I know the Technics are solid turntables in terms of build but I never saw them as a high-end product much like the Rega is marketed. 

 

My other option was to service and potentially mod or upgrade internal components in the Technics and then improve the Phono Stage from there. Is this truly the better option?

 

Thanks for the replies!

When you break it down, the job of a turntable is to spin the record at a steady rpm. The SL-1200 is very good at that. Secondly it needs to prevent unwanted  external vibration transferring to the cartridge. They do alright with this but can be improved without having to change decks. The job of a tonearm is to hold the cartridge rock steady to allow the stylus and cantilever to track the grooves as accurately as possible, but also provide as little impediment as possible to the slow movement of the cartridge across the record. The standard Technics arm is decent at that, but can be changed fairly easily to something better. 

[ophool]

Check out the Art of Sound forum for more head-spinning Technics hot rodding info than you might have imagined.

My take, Isonoe feet, a good platter mat, maybe a KAB damper, a Denon DL-301 and a nice GSP phono stage (you can loan one to try from @cheekyboy for postage cost) add records and enjoy.

 

The 1200 started life as a hifi turntable - DJs took it up for its bomb proof build and easy set up, they prolonged its market life into legend status but unfortunately lent it the reputation of being a "DJ deck", to the stage where it was alleged that Ortofon frowned on Kevin Barrett of KABusa for promoting it as a hifi deck.

A rather good electronics designer and builder of my knowledge uses one or two for his development and demonstration work on phono stages and headphone amps.

Edited September 4, 2018 by ophool
added a little historical perspective

[LPM]

I'd agree with all the recommendations so far.  The 1200 is a really good TT that does the basics for HiFi very well.  Can it be bettered by other TT's?  Of course, but what it does well such as speed stability it does very well indeed and it can also be improved readily itself.  I have one that I bought while saving for a better deck when my old AR XB was problematic but it was far better than I expected from day one and over the years I simply modded it a number of times, still have it and it performs so well I see no reason to upgrade to anything else.

 

The advice so far to concentrate on a good phono stage and good cartridge is spot on IMO.

 

I won't bother detailing all the mods I've made/tried but probably the best and most cost effective all round was purchasing a KAB damper (see Kevin's U.S. website).  I had in mind upgrading the arm as an early mod but the damper made such an all round improvement I've never bothered.  Its particular value is that it helps the arm better support a wide range of quite high quality cartridges.  There are plenty of references to the damper function on the web and at at The KAB site itself.  The less you need to spend on the TT itself, the more you can consider better cart and phono options

[Wayne Elliott]

3 hours ago, iz_thewiz said:

I’m really surprised and confused here. I know the Technics are solid turntables in terms of build but I never saw them as a high-end product much like the Rega is marketed. 

 

My other option was to service and potentially mod or upgrade internal components in the Technics and then improve the Phono Stage from there. Is this truly the better option?

 

Thanks for the replies!

Rega 3 or 6 arn't high-end.

[iz_thewiz]

Well all I can say is thank you all for your feedback and advice on this. I think you have talked my out of the Rega, and instead to focus on improving the Technics as much as I can through servicing and potential modifications. I'm yet to decide on an appropriate cartridge, and the Schiit Mani has an apparent RFI issue which a lot of users are reporting. The Vincent PHO-8 looks like a solid unit and I like the fact that the PSU is seperate. Will keep researching. Thanks guys. 

[Andrews_melb]

well worth checking out the grahame slee units. They are excellent and have an external psu unit as option

[gardsy]

Put a Jelco arm and isonoe footers on my 1200, havent thought about another turntable since.

Edited September 4, 2018 by gardsy

[iz_thewiz]

2 hours ago, Andrews_melb said:

well worth checking out the grahame slee units. They are excellent and have an external psu unit as option

Thanks for the recommendation. Might even go for this one instead, this rabbit hole is deep.

[oohms]

20 hours ago, iz_thewiz said:

I’m really surprised and confused here. I know the Technics are solid turntables in terms of build but I never saw them as a high-end product much like the Rega is marketed. 

They are the pinnacle of turntable engineering from the old vinyl days. Nearly everything made in this era is primitive in comparison and dressed up + marketed for a quick buck

[iz_thewiz]

If anyone’s still interested in this thread, I’ve decided to keep the Technics SL-1200 MK2 and focus on improving the phono stage. 

 

Based on the the advice I’ve received here and from various online reviews, I have purchased a Graham Slee Era Gold V with the external PSU1. I think this is definitely a solid step in the right direction and fits my budget well, considering that I was about to drop $2000 on a Rega turntable. 

 

Still doing research on cartridges and a good pairing for the Era Gold V. Any suggestions on this? I’m currently looking at the ZU/DL-103 MK2. 

 

Cheers. 

[unclekanus]

1 hour ago, iz_thewiz said:

Still doing research on cartridges and a good pairing for the Era Gold V. Any suggestions on this? I’m currently looking at the ZU/DL-103 MK2. 

 

Cheers. 

The DL-103 is a moving coil cart (low output). The Era Gold is moving magnet only so unless you use a step up of some sort it won't work. You would need to look at a moving magnet. There are plenty of great ones out there. I use a heavily modified 1200 and have been through three 2M blacks and have also had brilliant results with cheaper stuff like the Sumiko Pearl, which in a few ways is easier to live with than the Ortofon. They need to be well set up of course and I don't use a stock Technics arm by the way. Matching your cart to the tonearm is more important than matching the cart to the phono pre. Better to look around for a cartridge that mates well with the Technics arm and the phono stage will take care of the rest. I haven't heard any of the G.Slee pre's but they have a very good rep.

[ophool]

I am a fan of the Denon cartridges and particularly the 103, the Zu mods do lift its performance, but, as mentioned above, it is a low output moving coil and will require either a step up transformer or a headamp to work with the MM Era Gold V.

More, it is rather heavy at 14.5 gm - the maximum cartridge and headshell weight on the 1200 tone arm with the auxiliary weight is only 20.5 gm meaning that you would need a very light headshell and I would not recommend that option.

The AT-150Mlx is a very good cartridge that is MM and will work well on the Technics arm and at $US305 is probably better than anything else for the money.

I also really like the Era Gold V and if you have bought it new then perhaps use it for a few weeks before upgrading your cartridge.  Leave it powered on at all times, if it is a used one then it will still improve for the first 2 ~ 3 days after being powered up.

Edited September 5, 2018 by ophool

[Batty]

If you want to go MC you will need a HOMC cart such as the Sumiko Blue Point Special or a DL160, these are made to connect to MM phono stages directly.

Hana make reputedly good carts too.

[TerryO]

11 hours ago, iz_thewiz said:

If anyone’s still interested in this thread, I’ve decided to keep the Technics SL-1200 MK2 and focus on improving the phono stage. 

 

Based on the the advice I’ve received here and from various online reviews, I have purchased a Graham Slee Era Gold V with the external PSU1. I think this is definitely a solid step in the right direction and fits my budget well, considering that I was about to drop $2000 on a Rega turntable. 

 

Still doing research on cartridges and a good pairing for the Era Gold V. Any suggestions on this? I’m currently looking at the ZU/DL-103 MK2. 

 

Cheers. 

Loaning a Graham Slee first, which as others have mentioned you could have, is a better idea to see how it works in with the rest of your system.

Plus if you can wait a week or two while doing more study and asking more questions needless to say there will be a number of excellent value mm/mc phono stages pop up in the classifieds for a lot less than they are new.

Plus then you wouldn't have restricted yourself to a mm only cart.

 

cheers Terry

Edited September 5, 2018 by TerryO

[Batty]

The PHO-8 is MM and MC selected via a switch.

[eltech]

12 hours ago, iz_thewiz said:

Still doing research on cartridges and a good pairing for the Era Gold V.

To get the best clarity and detail from vinyl a cartridge with fine line, microline or shibata stylus should be used.

 

The cheapest cartridge with Shibata stylus is the Garrot Brothers K3 $360  https://www.audiotrends.com.au/garrott-brothers-k3-phono-cartridge.html

The next cheapest cartridge with fine line stylus is Ortofon 2M Bronze.

 

 

 

 

 

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, eltech said:

To get the best clarity and detail from vinyl a cartridge with fine line, microline or shibata stylus should be used.

 

The cheapest cartridge with Shibata stylus is the Garrot Brothers K3 $360  https://www.audiotrends.com.au/garrott-brothers-k3-phono-cartridge.html

The next cheapest cartridge with fine line stylus is Ortofon 2M Bronze.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the most practical advice so far.