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US power board

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44 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

doesn’t mean that everyone else will receive the same treatment.

Most definitely.

 

My inspector said he would identify them (non-Australian compliant plugs) to insurers, and insurers would definitely attempt not to pay....  but this depends on:

  • Was the plug, or something electrical related/near the plug responsible for the damage
  • Is there a clause in your policy which would allow them to not pay based on that  (perhaps not)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

Wouldn’t take it as gospel.  Just because of @guru  and @davewantsmoore  case have been successful doesn’t mean that everyone else will receive the same treatment.  We are all different here with different insurance companies and not all policies are the same.  What might have applied here may not apply to others.   

Whats important is that if you are using US style plugs and you are using them for either 120v or stupid enough to use 230V with them, bring it up to your insurance company and see if they will cover it.   To assume that just becuase 2 cases have successfully paid out and it will apply to everyone else is irresponsible.

I suggest that, like with anything in life, one should use their intelligence and fact collecting skills and decide for themselves. On the other hand, I am mildly annoyed by the fact that this same topic keeps getting brought up and discussed by the same people in the very same dogmatic fashion every single time. 

 

For example - if you claim that the US plugs should not be used with 240V mains - how do you explain that IEC connectors are the same for both 120 and 240V? Do you even know what drives a voltage and current rating on wires and connectors? 

 

These things are regulated by governments around the world and for good reasons. If one understands the reasons and risks involved in not following the regularity advice then one should employ that knowledge to improve things (if possible) by assessing potential benefits against the risks. Knowledge is power - if you have it - use it! On the other hand, regulations are generally created to protect people that prefer not to know and there is nothing wrong with that.  They should follow the rules and enjoy their (relatively) safe lives. 

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One thing about the US plugs/sockets that may be interesting - I recently changed out the rather solid, heavily built, ceramic US sockets on a 'US made' line filter box and the Active and Neutral wired connections were "back-to-front' to our sockets

 

I often wonder if all the US built equipment is connected this way and if the importers/retailers correct this wiring - I don't know if this has any effect on the sound at all but it's a bit disconcerting to know that a US built amplifier, for example, may indeed have the mains fuse in the Neutral line and not the Active.

 

Just something to keep in mind ...

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All decent US audiophile grade power plugs are better made, better insulated, and use better quality metals, than any AUS power plug you can buy from Bunnings or Mitre 10. Same goes for the power point/receptacles.

 

Its true you can have legal issues, and insurance companies will do anything to deny a claim. This is a good reason not to use them.

 

But if your concern is over actual real life safety, then don't listen to Zaphod, he is talking nonsense.

When was the last time you looked at a US power plug Trevor, 1985? The amount of metal to metal contact is similar to AUS, while the internal build quality of audiophile grade plugs vastly exceeds your normal Australian plug.

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On 03/12/2018 at 1:57 AM, HdB said:

One thing about the US plugs/sockets that may be interesting - I recently changed out the rather solid, heavily built, ceramic US sockets on a 'US made' line filter box and the Active and Neutral wired connections were "back-to-front' to our sockets

 

I often wonder if all the US built equipment is connected this way and if the importers/retailers correct this wiring - I don't know if this has any effect on the sound at all but it's a bit disconcerting to know that a US built amplifier, for example, may indeed have the mains fuse in the Neutral line and not the Active.

 

Just something to keep in mind ...

That's right. Many have wired US stuff out of phase because of this. It looks the same, because the pin positions and ground are similar visually, but the Active and Neutral are reversed compared to us.

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A curious thing with my Ayre mains 'filter box' is that it's used the Oz brown/blue/green insulation colours instead of the usual US Black/White/Green

I'm with 'ag' on the build quality of the big ceramic US plugs/sockets - I think those ceramic US sockets have superior contact surfaces/pressure to our own AU sockets, especially our current production units - nearly all our domestic plugs/sockets are becoming 'lighter duty' devices, some are of quite 'flimsy' construction indeed especially in comparison to the US big 'chunky' things built for high current and voltages.

 

  The available China line plugs seem to be built with slightly thinner pins (or blades, as they call them for some strange reason), and hence lower contact pressure, altho they do still seem to work quite well.

 

I've never had any problems with the familiar IEC power plugs/sockets and tried some of the China built AES sockets with 'audiophile' copper pins (no difference to 'normal' version, IMO) but the pins are actually thicker than standard, go figure!   Expensive little buggers too, more fool me!

 

There is a certain confidence to get all plugs, sockets/cable tested and certified despite the cost - I was quite surprised to find that some, if not many, of the high priced audiophile power cords either aren't certified, or even checked, I think.

I checked one locally assembled and crazy priced solid silver conductor power cable and the Act/Neu was indeed reversed - it's not something you like to see on any cable, let alone one at this price - a cheap simple testing plug would show this mistake immediately

 

It's just another reminder to us all to 'pay attention' the small details,, eh !

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1 hour ago, agisthos said:

All decent US audiophile grade power plugs are better made, better insulated, and use better quality metals, than any AUS power plug you can buy from Bunnings or Mitre 10. Same goes for the power point/receptacles.

Absolute nonsense. Australian made power plugs and sockets are amongst the best available. You may need to visit a specialist electrical wholesaler (Turks, et al) though. US power plugs and sockets are rubbish. AND, they're not certified for use on 230VAC. They should not be used in any 220/230/240VAC environment. 

 

1 hour ago, agisthos said:

 

Its true you can have legal issues, and insurance companies will do anything to deny a claim. This is a good reason not to use them.

 

But if your concern is over actual real life safety, then don't listen to Zaphod, he is talking nonsense.

Oh really? 

 

 

1 hour ago, agisthos said:

When was the last time you looked at a US power plug Trevor, 1985?

3 weeks ago (it was a month old product).

 

1 hour ago, agisthos said:

 

The amount of metal to metal contact is similar to AUS, while the internal build quality of audiophile grade plugs vastly exceeds your normal Australian plug.

I agree that some of the so-called "audiophile plugs" are of equivalent quality to high quality Australian plugs. The big difference is the cost. Sound-wise, there is, of course, zero difference, provided the connections are properly made. 

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3 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Absolute nonsense. Australian made power plugs and sockets are amongst the best available. You may need to visit a specialist electrical wholesaler (Turks, et al) though. US power plugs and sockets are rubbish. AND, they're not certified for use on 230VAC. They should not be used in any 220/230/240VAC environment. 

 

 

I always use specialist wholesalers for my electrical stuff. But my point is the cheap stuff from Bunnings is AUSTRALIAN CERTIFIED. Some here seem to cling to this label as if its some holy grail of safety. You are simply misleading the forum members when you claim Australian certified means its safer than US stuff. This is not a rule. Just open up a $7 power strip from your local hardware store and some are more than dangerous.

 

It is also misleading to claim US stuff cannot be used safely in 240v regions (legality is another matter). There is no such thing as 115v and 230v plugs in real life. There is a country specific industry rating, yes, but in the real world there is only good quality and bad quality plugs, and this determines current carrying capacity. The US and Australia has both. Bad quality plugs use thin and cheap metal with poor contact design and will have trouble pushing 15 amps over time, whether they be US or AU.

 

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Just now, agisthos said:

 

I always use specialist wholesalers for my electrical stuff. But my point is the cheap stuff from Bunnings is AUSTRALIAN CERTIFIED. Some here seem to cling to this label as if its some holy grail of safety. You are simply misleading the forum members when you claim Australian certified means its safer than US stuff. This is not a rule. Just open up a $7 power strip from your local hardware store and some are more than dangerous.

I have NEVER suggested that cheap power strips have any place. Goal post shift duly noted. I have ALWAYS suggested the use of Elsafe power boards is the best option. 

 

Just now, agisthos said:

 

It is also misleading to claim US stuff cannot be used safely in 240v regions (legality is another matter). There is no such thing as 115v and 230v plugs in real life.

117VAC plugs and sockets are not rated for 230VAC. They should never be used under such conditions. 

 

Just now, agisthos said:

 

There is a country specific industry rating, yes, but in the real world there is only good quality and bad quality plugs, and this determines current carrying capacity. The US and Australia has both. Bad quality plugs use thin and cheap metal with poor contact design and will have trouble pushing 15 amps over time, whether they be US or AU.

 

US plugs and sockets have no place for use in Australia. 

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28 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

I have ALWAYS suggested the use of Elsafe power boards is the best option.

Where would you recommend buying them from?

Edited by Ittaku

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1 minute ago, Ittaku said:

Where would you recommend buying them from?

Cos your from Melbourne.Their sales office is in Port Melbourne 

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45 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

I have NEVER suggested that cheap power strips have any place. Goal post shift duly noted. I have ALWAYS suggested the use of Elsafe power boards is the best option. 

 

 

You continuously, year after year, mislead the members of this forum by claiming US sockets and power points are bad and so poorly designed compared to AUS, and cannot be safely used (legality is another matter).

 

Now the meme is "in comparison to Elsafe" then you accuse me of goalpost shifting. I suggest you stop projecting.

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1 hour ago, agisthos said:

 

You continuously, year after year, mislead the members of this forum by claiming US sockets and power points are bad and so poorly designed compared to AUS, and cannot be safely used (legality is another matter).

That's because they ARE poorly designed, unsafe and, compared to Australian products, rubbish. There is ZERO reason to use US plugs and sockets in Australia, as there is no sonic difference between properly terminated and constructed mains connectors. 

 

I also take issue with your accusation that I mislead members of this forum. I do not. Far from it. I have, with monotonous regularity, asked for some proof that fancy mains connectors are audibly significant. A properly conducted double blind test will suffice. 

 

1 hour ago, agisthos said:

 

Now the meme is "in comparison to Elsafe" then you accuse me of goalpost shifting. I suggest you stop projecting.

Let me remind you that you brought up the topic of power boards. If you want to, now, discuss power boards, then my suggestion remains: Elsafe are among the best available. If you want one of the best power boards, then this will do the trick:

 

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/bayer-b15amp-15-amp-portable-4-socket-power-outlet?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz7Xrlarl3wIVzgorCh2riAv2EAYYASABEgKVhPD_BwE

 

 

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So much dogma here... 

 

There might be more supply of US kit but there is nothing, zip, zero, nada scientifically better in an absolute sense. There is nothing in AS/NZS 3112 that stops anyone making an audiophile grade plug or socket. And frankly anyone suggesting that the quality of US audiophile kit is better than local Bunnings kit has kinda forgotten that the equivalent shopping experience in the US is Home Depot, and their plugs are (from first hand experience) just as cheap. 

 

If you're not terminating mains as per AS/NZS 3112 you're definitely in breach and very much on your own. No sparkie worth their license will do this. There is to my knowledge (could be wrong, do your own research) a grey area in requirements for power boards, though you're welcome to call your local regulating body, ask for their compliance department and seek advice. Energy Safe Victoria (ESV) work down this way, your mileage may vary. 

 

If you are getting NEMA 5 sockets (3 pin) they are rated to 125V and probably 15A. You can have something designed and tested to Australian standard current and voltages, though it is not a standard connecting set. There is no guarantee it'll work in an Australian mains set. I would imagine in the event of an incident the onus would be on you to prove that whatever plugs and sockets you chose to use are rated to Australian mains conditions and connection/wiring requirements, which a standard NEMA 5 socket is not required to meet. If your audiophile mains connector maker can provide for you documentation stating everything tickety-boo regards standards compliance, that'd probably be a start, though at ground floor consider that a plug/socket designed for US voltages has never seen 230VAC in its life. 

 

In comparison between them, blade width is identical, ours are slightly thicker and generally slightly longer. Ours has (slightly) more contact area on the live/neutral for less current and (far) more area on the earth, it's a clear winner for physics. If you want to push that point you can use 15A or 20A versions of ours (with appropriate electrical reticulation) that will give even more contact area. There are some recent revisions to AS/NZS 3112 that require hot pins to be insulated in Australia. This is not a US requirement. Our kit and wiring standards are safer to this end. Period.

 

Anyone wanting a powerboard would do well to pick one up out of a rack server and give that a go before spending big money - they're typically built to last and nicely 'toasted' for use by the time you'll get 'em.

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Good info - thanks

 

Those Sydney Tools units, or similar, are available from Middy's, L & H, and indeed our local Bunnings - sometimes under the Arlec or  HPM name - I haven't seen any made as flat packs like the ubiquitous power strips but no doubt, they're probably available, complete with the RCD, etc, protections. 

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30 minutes ago, HdB said:

Good info - thanks

 

Those Sydney Tools units, or similar, are available from Middy's, L & H, and indeed our local Bunnings - sometimes under the Arlec or  HPM name - I haven't seen any made as flat packs like the ubiquitous power strips but no doubt, they're probably available, complete with the RCD, etc, protections. 

 

Try Gumtree! https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-server+power+board/k0

 

These look interesting - mega Elsafe boards at https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/lansvale/other-electronics-computers/xmas-lights-power-boards-electrical-server-racks-computer-cabinet/1206376918! If you have the 15A supplies to drive 'em :)... though at the price he's asking you'd call out a sparkie, run dedicated RCD's and drop routes direct to earth with the change :P 

Edited by rmpfyf

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