A small upgrade in speakers: the Martin Logan CLX, a true work of art!

[Big Dog RJ]

Tony, 

I just came across something in your pics of the system, which our good mate the G-man also pointed out a similar config in mine... 

 

The use of that Thor! That thing absolutely strangles the CLX's top end, including the overall presentation which is effortless. 

 

When he came over and listened the first time, it was great no doubt but there was something holding its sheer power abilities... Only after about a week he asked me to disconnect the Thor, as he had the very same thing which ended up in the bin! 

 

I handed my Thor back to Damien as an Easter gift! 

 

Whatever the Thor did or didn't do, without it, believe me it takes the CLX's and the entire system to a whole new level!

 

I will never use that Thor unit again, plus in Aus we have pretty good stable AC mains, that's all that's really required. The high-end gear takes care of any AC mains fluctuations with their top notch built in regulators. The Thor is not required at all. 

 

However, if you're having certain fluctuations and unstable AC mains, which you're not...  The only device I can think of that will do a proper job without straggling the potential, is the PS Audio AC re-generator. Now that thing does a marvellous job, and it's not a cheap device. Might as well invest in something like that, based on the SOTA gear you have, rather than the Thor... 

 

Just thought I'd let you know. 

Cheers, RJ 

[Guest Music monster]

Good eyes big dog I didn’t notice it.hopefully it’s only for the tv.Gary the music monster

Edited April 19, 2019 by Music monster

[Haztone]

Thanks RJ, the CLX's aren't powered through the Thor. I use it for the TV and other associated gear but not the stereo equipment. I had three dedicated lines on 20 amp fuses run for the power and these are used to power up all the stereo gear. I will post the speaker distances after the footy. My room is the existing garage so is 6m x 6.2m which is barely enough. I am not buying another house for the stereo so have to make do with what I have.

Regards,

Tony

[Addicted to music]

Thanks for sharing, that's some awesome gear!  im sure it sounds better than it looks. 

[Guest Music monster]

Good to hear tony it actually improves the tv. Cheers the music monster

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! OK that's certainly good to know. The Thor keeps things at bay with the TV setup, good idea.

 

The restored Divas will sound extraordinary, no doubt! Will be a wonderful thing to cherish, recall and reminisce that legendary Apogee sound... 

 

I will definitely make a trip up there one day Tony, might also bring along the good wife, as I'll have to plan a small getaway just for her, and then sneak out for a listen... 

Should be tickety boo as long as she's in a good mood. Otherwise getaway, special weekend trip for two, plus Apogee audition ends up in a minor kaboom! All fuses blown including the mains and that's all she wrote! 

 

Cheers mate, RJ

[Haztone]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the advice about the Thors, I am sure you will be happy with the Maggies when they arrive.  My first experience with Maggies was what started me on the high end road.  I heard a pair of Timpani's at a store in Brisbane and the sound was so lifelike that it blew me away.  I have been striving for that ever since.  Unfortunately I felt that the Maggies sound went backwards when they introduced the ribbon tweeter and their court case against Apogee is legendary.  I went to Bill McLean's and had a listen to the 3.6's when I was considering the purchase of a high end panel speaker.  I was interested in the 20.1 but Bill didn't have one in store.  Unfortunately I didn't like the treble integration which may have been due to the associated electronics, I think ribbons are more sensitive to this than any other speaker type.  The sound was extremely sibilant and HiFi-ish which is the opposite of what I am striving for and I eventually purchased the CLX's from Joe at Audio Connection.  I have read that the newer models have addressed this issue and I am sure that you will be very happy with yours.  Would love to come and have a listen next time I am in Melbourne.

Cheers,

Tony

[Guest Music monster]

Hi tony yes I believe they have addressed the issues in the Maggie’s with the 30.7s.these are in a completely different league to all other Maggie’s made including the 20.7s. It’s there first 4 way speakers as well with a special lower midrange driver and there best midrange ever made,half the weight of the midrange in the 20.7s and uses new materials that magnapan are keeping a secret.they reproduce full range bass with power and dynamics approaching the best cone speakers and speed,snap agility that cone speakers cart match. When your down pm me and your welcome for a listen.cheers gary the music monster

[Haztone]

Thanks Gary,

I will certainly hold you to that and if you are ever in Mackay or the Whitsundays please get in touch and come and have a listen.

Cheers,

Tony.

[Haztone]

Hello again Gary,

One of the things I have noticed over the years, particularly with the American Hi Fi magazines is how they praise up new models of equipment, but when the next new model is released they point out what was wrong in the previous model that has now been addressed.  I noticed this in relation to the Magneplanar treble and, if you read back through the old reviews you will find what I am talking about.  I have always preferred the sound of panel speakers which I believe have far fewer shortcomings than cone speakers.  I have followed Magnepans development with interest since I first heard the Timpani.  I have been to Bill McLean's twice, the first time while he was at his old store.  Both times I found the treble to be too pronounced for my tastes but this was not mentioned in the articles from Stereophile or TAS until the model was superseded.  It just highlights that you should only use magazine reviews to narrow down what you want to listen to and then judge with your ears.

Incidentally I have owned a pair of Apogee Centaur Majors since 1992 and am still using them for the rear channels of the 5.2 system.

Cheers, Tony.

[Steve M]

I have owned Apogee Caliper and Stage loudspeakers in the past and was an active member on the Apogee Audioworld(?) Forum in the late 1990s which had many members from USA, Europe, Asia and Australia. Graz was a leading member. They were a good bunch of passionate and knowledgeable guys who in the main got along very well and the forum was a wealth of information on everything hi-fi. The Audioworld site folded after Graz accepted control of it due to lack of interest from others and started a sister website or some other intrigue at the time, can’t remember exact details right now?

 

I think you will find that the original Apogee Acoustics company Trademark expired in mid 2000s and that Graz (aka Graeme Keets from Queensland) is the new owner of the Apogee Acoustics brand name. From all reports Graz is a good bloke and his attention to detail in making ribbon speakers is second to none, so it seems the Apogee legend is in good hands. See his website here:

 

http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/specialprojects.html

 

Graz’s statement product is the new Apogee Definitive fullrange ribbon loudspeaker, which has an RRP of (ouch!) $105K USD.

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

 

 

.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Steve M

[Ittaku]

2 hours ago, Haztone said:

I have always preferred the sound of panel speakers which I believe have far fewer shortcomings than cone speakers. 

Have you listened to some good open baffle cone speakers? They sound halfway between planars and regular cone speakers.

[Haztone]

Hello Itakku,

Yes I have heard some open baffle cone speakers. I heard a pair in Perth 10 years ago and you are right that they are close to panels but lack the speed of panels IMHO. They do tend to have the spatial presentation of panels and do have the advantage of bass slam. That's why I have the JL Audio Gotham v2 subs to add bass slam. I will keep them if the Diva's need them. If not I will sell them. I also heard Duntech Sovereigns years ago at Len Wallis audio and they were pretty special but totally out of my price range. I recently heard Mike Lenehan's speakers and they are very good as well.

Regards,

Tony

[Haztone]

Hello Steve,

Thanks for the post and information on Apogees.

I have been to Graz's place in the Sunshine Coast hinterland on many occasions since he started building my Diva's. I supplied the Jarrah for use in my speakers. Graz hasn't had a pair of Definitives there on any visit as they are only made to order.

Graz's workmanship, materials and attention to detail are second to none.

Last time I was there he had a pair of Diva's that he had rebuilt for an overseas client and they sounded brilliant.

Graz assures me that he will be improving on the Diva design in many important areas in my speakers including a lighter and much improved bass ribbon, a higher crossover frequency from bass to MR drivers. A wider MR ribbon and much improved crossover parts. It has been a three year journey which is getting close to completion and I am looking forward to the results of what are arguably the best speakers on the planet.

Regards,

Tony

[Guest Music monster]

Yes tony I know exactly what you mean but pretty much all reviewers do this when a new model replaces an old model. I bought a pair of magnapans 1.7i just to hear how they sound in my room. The sound was very good, that’s why I purchased the 30.7s. These Maggie’s are truly full range and reproduce a huge and effortless sound that does not require subs. Big dog has herd them in Singapore and he was blown away. Check his thread out on stereonet.cheers mate. Gary the music monster

[Haztone]

Thanks Gary, I will check out Big Dog's thread. I didn't mean to insinuate that the 30.7's will be anything but superb. I really think they will be very special, especially if they are an improvement over the Tympani's which were very special speakers. I have gone a different route based on my experience with Maggies with what was probably poor associated electronics. I am sure you will be mightily impressed with them. Unfortunately they wouldn't fit in my room and I am sure my wife would call the men in the white coats if I suggested another pair of speakers after the Apogees.

Cheers,

Tony

[Guest Music monster]

Thanks mate I appreciate that and I truly believe your apogees we be very special indeed.the 30.7s are definitely better than tympanis and the best magnapan has ever made. Cheers gary the music monster

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, some interesting points of discussion and very informative from the Apogee front...

 

Having previously owned all three types/brands, and now CLX's, all I can say is that each one of these transducers has its own attributes and when compared side by side, which I have, it's very very hard to absolutely prefer one over the other. 

 

For example the 30.7's were driven by Dan D'Augostino top of the line Relentless monoblocks, these are 200 grand a pair. The phono stage was the Momentum phonostage which retails for 80 grand something... The preamp was the Momentum preamp, which is close to another 80 grand plus... so basically a full SS line up at its finest. Then he has the CLX's set up with top of the line CJ gear, ART300's and the GATS2, then in another corner are parked four huge towers, the Martin Logan Statements Evo-II and the mighty Infinity IRSV. Prior to this he had the much older original Apogee Diva's that I bought from him and used in our personal reference system for a few decades... 

 

Having all this fancy stuff is well and good, and obviously if you can afford whatever then by all means go for it!

 

At the end of the day, I sincerely think each one of those systems are in a class of their own. There's no point in comparing simply because when one discovers better sound from their favourite recordings, on a particular system, they will prefer exactly that system no matter what! Simply because it makes them happy and truly satisfies their expectations of high quality playback.

 

The TT rig he was using, I believe, was the Walker Audio black diamond II-prosethium something... I can't even pronounce the bloody thing. Anyway, it was somewhere around 150 grand for the TT rig and full set up, which actually looked like the size of a mini Cooper! 

 

For now, all I can say is this, I just sit back and enjoy my humble Rega RP8, fitted with the Benz Micro Glider SM cart, running through the Rega Aria phonostage. It's just short of 150 grand... But delivers plenty of music through CJ and the CLX's (without subs!) and that's all she wrote! 

 

Cheers maties, just sit back, pour that scotch, light that cigar and enjoy the music! 

 

It's also a very very good thing to learn that at least now the Apogee name lives on and is definitely in good hands. Cheers to Graz  

RJ

[Guest Music monster]

I agree raj they are all surberb and it simply comes down to personal taste, I would like one day to own Martin Logan’s and apogees. Gary the music monster

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, mate me too! That's a definite! 

Would certainly be nice to have a second / third pair of Maggies lurking in the background... wouldn't mind the wonderful MG3.7i, and an exquisite pair of Graz rebuilt Divas or the slightly smaller Duettas... Now that's living the hi-fi! 

 

Only down side in my scenario, I'd be slapped left, right & centre whiles sitting in the dog house

Probably still enjoying the music, from a distance, whiles digging for that bone...

 

That won't happen as long as I'm on planet earth.  Heck, just to get the system in the lounge room and design the new interior based around the system was a hard ask! The good wife finally agreed, hence why I refer to her as the "good " wife! 

I believe you've met her over the car phone... In person she's like those Relentless amps, very smooth in Class A starting at 1500w, then onto 3000w at 4ohms, and then a whopping 6000w at 2ohms, and then the fuse blows!

But heck, I absolutely love her more than anything in the world, for without her I wouldn't even be in this country... 

That's a definite! cheers to our better halves RJ

[Guest Music monster]

Ha ha ha I remember that phone call in the car I fort you might drop me of on the side of the roadits definitely nice to have a few different pairs of speakers for a change in sound as you know raj I have the entire klipsch heritage range of speakers. These klipsch sound very different to panel speakers with bass slam and dynamic punch that Maggie’s can never do. Cheers gary the music monster

[Haztone]

Hey RJ and Gary, another night with red wine and music, paradise. RJ you have a great way of putting things succinctly. We all make an audio journey. It seems mine, yours and Gary's are similar in that we all prefer panel speakers. My CLX's are stunning and I only really went to the Apogees because I had issues with my first pair which were replaced under warranty. I have made several recent changes to my system with perhaps the most cost effective upgrade being the change to Mike Lenehan's cables.

I also prefer valve amps over SS finding them to be more to my taste musically.

I would love to own a pair of 30.7's but would never get to appreciate them from the lunatic asylum my wife would put me in.

I am really satisfied with my current system which has evolved over the years. Money doesn't always buy satisfaction, I was reading tonight about the Airforce Zero - €360,000 without arm or cartidge!!! They have to be taking the piss but if you have the scratch. Or the Wilson Chronosonic US $685,000 plus another $100,000 or more for sub-woofers, really???

My family and friends think I am mad for what I have spent but I justify it on the amount of use and pleasure I get.

Anyway back to the music, I bet you both spend heaps of hours in the den listening and enjoying.

Tony

[Big Dog RJ]

Good one, good one... 

Listening for hours... Mmm the G-man that's a definite! He listens nearly every day for a healthy dose of around 6-8 hrs a day. 

 

I on the other hand, is what you refer to as the "big dog turns into a werewolf after midnight... "

Unfortunately my days are shot, due to a ridiculous work week, timings are off the rails. Start at 3pm & end at 3am. Only Sun & Mon off, so plenty of time to clean up, need to brush the kitties (2 annoying furry buggers), clean the fish tank, vacuum the house -shoe box, do the laundry and then take a shower...

By the clock it's time to warm up the tubes, it's closer to midnight! 

So the true listening starts only then, goes well into 4am. Then the good wife wakes up around 4:30am to find me slumped on the couch

With the tubes glowing and needle on inner edge of LP asking, "please turn the other side dopey! " and life goes on to Sun... 

If and when I can get out of work by 1am, there are those luxury days, then I slam the accelerator and get home in zippy time to have a decent couple hours listen. But then after a few days, I receive a speeding fine. and the good wife's reaction

I always tell her, the red face is no good for tube's, since they're already glowing red, Ha! 

Now, I've learned to slow down and reach home safely, turn on the system slowly and sit back like this fella!

Cheers, RJ 

[Big Dog RJ]

Here's a better one, whiles I'm typing this message and listening to music, this ginger fella has fallen asleep on my left... What a luxury life they have, just snooze and listen to music whenever... 

Cheers, & big woof to panels! 

RJ 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Tony, getting back to music... 

I just reduced the angle of toe in, sounds pretty good! The flash light adjustment, according to the owners manual, was what I went by...

However, I feel these added tweaks gave a subtle difference for the better. Still have a good 4-5 ft from front wall, moved both panels slightly further apart by few inches, and pushed the couch further back.

 

There's a slight improvement of depth in soundstage, plus a slightly wider presentation, still manage to make the panels totally disappear, this is great stuff! And didn't ruin the carpet either, thanks to Readers Digest!

 

Obviously when we move to our new place, I'd have to adopt the flash light method once again and then make these finer adjustments. Should be easier with more space, especially on the listening position. Always great to have a few more feet further for that added ambience affect. 

Thanks for that, Cheers!

RJ