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A small upgrade in speakers: the Martin Logan CLX, a true work of art!


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G'day Maties, fellow audiophiles, enthusiasts, music lovers and fanatics, the time has come to proclaim my insanity... 

 

After a very hard working span of 3 years, sweat, tears and more sweat... Pennies saved up far and wide, and believe me the company I work for, really puts you to work long hours and manage ops to the core...  I finally closed a deal on a new pair of CLX's. I would have loved to get these gems in that special Maple color but that alone was costing a fortune, plus 4 months delivery direct from Canada. So I settled for the Black Ash color and it actually looks quite stunning! 

 

Over these past few years, I personally auditioned several speaker systems, both in home demo's as well as private demo's. I made a short list of what I really liked in terms of ranking more than just price:

1. ML CLX's (my favorite all time, truth in The Absolute Sound).

2. Maggie MG3.7i (a wonderful ribbon planar design and superb value for money) there's no comparison.

3. Audio Analysis Omega's (quite a difficult beast to drive but with CJ monoblocks no issues, also reminds me of the old Apogee's). 

4. Avant Garde Duo XD (a superb horn system that is totally transparent, effortless dynamics and stunning drive capability at a whisper. However, the most expensive of the lot). 

 

Having seriously auditioned these systems, I always had my passion for stats, and being full range stats is what I preferred. So for the time being I settled for the Ethos, which is a ML hybrid design and has now been surpassed by ML's new Masterpiece series. The masterpiece series is fantastic, no doubt but also comes with a hefty price tag. Compared to the Ethos, the upgrade in performance was only marginal in terms of the panel, which reproduces all of the mids & highs, plus mid bass. It is the lower bass that is the most significant improvement in the new masterpiece series, such as the Ren15A, and 13A the bass is phenomenal! Also the synergy between panel to powered bass drivers is more coherent in this newer series. 

 

I was seriously thinking about the Ren13A, until I heard the CLX's in a proper set up at my good mates place, it was like no other!

Although the wifey proclaims I'm insane to spend so much on a speaker system just to achieve a particular kind of sound, the moment she actually listened to the CLX's, she knew straight away where my hard earned savings was heading... 

 

So with that I end my quest for speaker to amplification perfection. Many have advised that I should upgrade the preamplifier to either a GAT or an ET7. In fact I was planning on doing so but when this special deal came through, I put aside all funds towards the CLX's, I also believe the pv15 is good enough! The m8080 Mullards are truly musical and the match up with the CJ LP125 monoblocks are a perfect fit, one that will perform extremely well with outstanding quality on the CLX's.

 

Da big dog is in da house!

Woof to all Martin Logan owners and especially CLX owners, I truly understand why you absolutely love these full range stats, Respect! 

 

A very special cheers to my good mates, Kostas and Kevin from Class A Audio, without you I would have never been able to experience the CLX's in its true form.

When I get them, I'll post a few good pics with a proper write up of how well it blends with CJ amplification. I sincerely believe it will be nothing short of marvelous!

Cheers and best to all, RJ 

 

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Hello to all,  This has truly been one of the most important aspects of my audio journey, I simply cannot find all the words to describe how this experience has been but all I can say is that this is

Hee haw! The big dog in da howzzzz!  Finally, finally, finally - from my initial post in 2018 around Sept when I acquired these dream stats, hearing them the first time, driven with Dan D's Momen

G'day Maties, fellow audiophiles, enthusiasts, music lovers and fanatics, the time has come to proclaim my insanity...    After a very hard working span of 3 years, sweat, tears and more swe

I tip my hat to you sir, that is a serious commitment. But can totally understand your love for stats. Sure looking forward to seeing pics, and hearing of your delight. When are the new children due to arrive ?

Many many hours of emotional listening to be had. Congrats !! Now where is the green with jealousy button ? 😂

Edited by Mr 57
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G'day Mr 57,

Believe me it was no easy task or a walk in the park... The wifey is still not super flash about it but this time she feels that this will truly be my last! 

If Frank was reading this, as he correctly stated last time I said this, ah those famous last words... 

Not to worry Frank, this is the one and only I was aiming at for a very long time. 

The train does stop here and I'm getting off, it's not OK to do this kind of thing all the time unless you had unlimited disposal income. I carefully planned this, it was a matter of time when and that time seemed about right because I was told next year, which I was waiting for, the price goes up significantly! So this would have never happened... 

Anyway, all is well and they arrive on Sun next week, until then I'll enjoy the Ethos for a few more hours. 

Cheers, RJ 

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I’m here, lurking ...... legs playing up so reading the forum. Haha. 

Enjoy the CLX 🤩🤩 @Big Dog RJ

I’m thinking of 2x subs atm. 

Edited by frankn
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Very nice mate.

We did a demo of these for a customer who bought them straight away.

Magic speaker! We found a Plinius SA Ref did a good job but still could have used more. Audio Research Ref 250 struggled a bit.

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Yes, this is not the first time I've heard this about ARC amps, lack of drive with stats or difficulty handling impedence swings of stats... Better off with dynamic driver designs. 

There's a chap in the UK whom I'm in touch with on a US forum (wbf) goes as Harlequin. I think he was using the Ref 250's as well and realized his CLX's were not opening up as much or what their true potential is. Later on he upgraded to the 610 monoblocks, and confirms this combination to be far better.

 

Kostas is using just one stereo amp, Pass Labs XA30.8, to such a remarkable performance. Rated at just 30w pure Class A, its drive and current capabilities are superb! 

 

I've had no issues driving large stats with CJ amplification in the past and now, hence the LP series monoblocks will have no problem. CJ to me has not only proved to be powerful in terms of solid power supplies but also highly engaging and musically involving. So far I have found this combination of the highest level of musicality and finesse for me. It should be an awesome ride from now on... 

Cheers mate, RJ 

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There's another chap based in Puerto Rico, Roberto, also on wbf forum who had ARC ss and tubes driving his CLX's. The moment he changed over to CJ he never looked back. In fact the amp he's using now is actually a stereo version of what I have in a similar topology with KT120's. He's currently using the Classic 120SE and loves it! Claims that his CLX's never sounded so revealing. I totally agree because I know the classic 120 quite well, both in standard EL34 & SE KT120 version, they are superb amplifiers, and will drive the CLX's to their full potential, no doubt. 

 

The Plinius is a very well designed power amplifier hailing from Kiwi land... It reminds me of the mighty All Blacks, it can handle anything! Not much is mentioned about the Plinius, although it has achieved highend audio awards and has been rated highly in TAS (The Absolute Sound) reviews. It is probably only the second ss design I would use apart from of course Pass Labs. These two combinations are very stable designs and will out-perform many top contenders regardless of price.

Enjoy mate & have a good one. 

RJ 

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15 hours ago, frankn said:

I’m here, lurking ...... legs playing up so reading the forum. Haha. 

Enjoy the CLX 🤩🤩 @Big Dog RJ

I’m thinking of 2x subs atm. 

Hey Frank, how's it going mate... 

Trust the Quads are giving you that special enveloping sound of pure musicality.

You mentioned 2 subs... Are you planning on trying out subs for the Quads? If so why? What's lacking in the Quad bass?

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Hello to all, 
This has truly been one of the most important aspects of my audio journey, I simply cannot find all the words to describe how this experience has been but all I can say is that this is nothing short of marvelous, spectacular, outstanding, and just magical! 

Hats off to ML and their design team, they have put so much effort and research into a full range stat of this nature, that its performance is beyond anything I've heard and owned to date, and driven with CJ amplification, oh my goodness gracious!

The CLX's arrived today in the evening, it took 3 of us to unload, unpack and carry into the house. Dam are they heavy! The top panel side is manageable but the end of the base, is actually heavier on one side and my arm was nearly giving way at one point... (it's certainly a good thing I still pump some iron!)
The packing is outstanding and the workmanship is absolutely top notch! Not only are they stunning but also the way they've been assembled and constructed is nothing short of SOTA! What a huge difference from other stats I've owned, nothing comes close.
This is real top level stuff, similar to other designs utilizing heavy bracing techniques, there's nothing short of mediocre or average build quality whatsoever. Everything from top to bottom including the input terminals tightening collars are superb!

I have positioned the CLX's at the exact same spot where I had the Maggie's previously and managed to get around 4&1/2 ft from front wall and around 2ft from the sides. Distance between each panel is about 6ft, and listening position is 8.5ft to about 9ft. This is the only aspect where I would have preferred the listening position to be further away but boy do these massive things just disappear into thin air! It simply leaves the entire soundstage and performers in full affect right there! You just want to get up and shake hands with each one of them, it is actually quite spooky! 

I'll try to make this short as possible since I think I can go on for eternity... 
1. Bass: I wanted to start with bass because I think this is actually one of its strongest points. It is tight, with superb control, start stop acceleration is nothing short of marvelous and most of all it is lightening fast! It is so fast that it comes and goes before you even think about the bass, superb, superb superb!

2. Mid-range: the depth and slam in the mid-range is like no other! It can play very loud and at the same time go so soft like a butterfly flapping its wings and suddenly rise again like a thunderstorm lightening bolt! The integration and openness of the mid-range is superb, nothing short of magical! 

3. The highs: the top end is well extended such that it will reproduce whatever is on the recording, nothing else! It is so smooth and extended, it's highly accurate and provides every single minute microscopic detail of the recording. Therefore, if the recording has it then the top end extension delivers!

In summary:
The lifelike performance the CLX's deliver have to be obtained with the right amplification. And as we all are on the same level here, especially when it comes to high-end, these things are just phenomenal with CJ amplifiers, the LP125m's are simply cruising... KT120's putting out 125w of pure musical awesomeness in monoblock finesse.

My room is not large and does not do full justice to these huge stats. However, they are so well designed, with the right placement and a few adjustments, plus some critical tweaking, they can disappear even in small rooms. They are not overpowering in any way whatsoever, they don't boom, there's no overhang of bass or smudgging of the imaging at all. What you have here is a full range stat that delivers anything and everything on the recording as faithful as possible.

It is nothing short of "a true work of art!"

Bravo and we'll done to ML, they have hit a home run with this one and shattered all barriers of stat design, refined it to its finest and produced a true electrostat transducer like no other. 
Cheers to all and thanks a million for all your support and great advice. It certainly was a pleasure! 
Cheers to the CLX Art! 
RJ

Big Dog is in da house!.jpg

CLX Art just arrived.jpg

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That is a serious bit of kit....WOW !!. They look fantastic, I can only imagine how totally involving they are. Well done young man, every right to be stoked. Wonderful !

PS , it’s just 3.37 am , I’ll bet your still listening to them 😀

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Yes mate, I couldn't just shut down the system, although my eyes were nearly blood red and half closed... Probably had 5 coffees in that one session starting from 10:pm to 5am...

 

I must mention a special dedicated message to my good mate Kevin from Class A Audio. The level of service is second to none! He has a personal touch with the products he offers and he knows how to put together a particular system according to your finances. He carries a full range of very high end gear at his store and offers private demos, which I think are very critical, specially if you're serious about your sound and demand the absolute SOTA. He's got the full range of electrostats from Martin Logan, including some wonderful speakers from Harbeth, they are outstanding! 

Most of the higher end series, such as the new Ren15A's or the Neoliths will have to be placed on special order but the rest of the series can be arranged for demo. Also his demo rooms are very well laid out, another huge factor in critical listening, whereas most places I've been to are quite cluttered and don't have isolated demo rooms, except for a few. His range of amplification is also top notch, Pass Labs, Accuphase, Luxman, Jeff Rowland and Mark Levinson are available at your choice. Although I would prefer to see Conrad Johnson amps and I'm very passionate about CJ, perhaps one day soon Kev may also offer CJ...

BTW  if anyone is after a carefully used pair of Martin Logan Ethos hybrid stats, mine are available at Class A Audio. Contact Kevin and he'll look after you, it's worth going out there for a special demo and just to experience what the high end has to offer. 

Cheers to all and enjoy the music! 

RJ  

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  • 7 months later...

Hello Big Dog RJ,

I have had a pair of CLX Art speakers in Dark Cherry for about five years now.  I am driving them with a pair of Ayon Audio Orthos XS monoblocks, 400 watts of Class A power and they sound fantastic.

I actually supplement the bass with a pair of JL Audio Gothams and it improves the system immensely.  Don't know what cables you are using but I just replaced all of mine with the ones that Mike Lenehan makes and it was a great improvement, a lot quieter, better focussed and separation of instruments and better spatial information.

I am using the Clearaudio Master Reference TT with a motor that I got from Mark Doehmann, Graham Phantom Supreme with Koetsu Urushi Wajima Cart with platinum magnet upgrade, my phono stage is the Coincident and the preamp is an Allnic Audio L3000.  The Allnic has a balanced and single ended output so I send the balanced signal to the Ayons and the single ended to the subs.

Overall I am extremely satisfied with my current system which is the best I have ever heard it.  If anyone is interested I can post some pictures.

Graz is currently building me a redesigned pair of Apogee Divas so when I get them I will report how they compare with the CLX's.  I don't have my CLX's toed in as much as yours appear to be and this puts the soundstage beyond the speakers and still maintains the central image, you may want to experiment a little with this as it can make a huge difference.  I also took a lot of time to ensure the crossover cover is exactly level as this also improves the sound.

Regards,

Haztone.

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G'day Haztone, 

 

It certainly is wonderful to hear from another passionate CLX owner, who has carefully set up their stats.

 

Yes, I totally understand and agree on the use of subs, however for my listening tastes and genre in music, I didn't find the use of a sub that necessary. I've also listened to the CLX's driven by top of the line CJ ART300's full range, they certainly performed at their best, and the bass was more than adequate. Lightening fast and very agile. Captured all the low notes on well recorded material, in the most natural way possible, without the artificial enhancements. 

 

Over the many times I've experienced & auditioned these, also having owned them now for nearly a year, I realised a lot of low level detail and fine balance comes from great recordings. As you are aware, the CLX's will capture and deliver every minute detail on the recording. If the recording is not that good and lacks certain bass lines, you will hear it! On a more positive note, if the recording is of high quality and spectacular, the CLX's will deliver exactly that! I also felt that so far, according to the sheer speed of the new X'stat panel, there really is no sub that can match it's speed. Hence, if you listen closely to the CLX's with subs, you can actually hear the sub operating in its own space. This is as if you're listening to two separate speaker systems...

 

Perhaps the cross-over points needed to be fined tuned, along with the help of DSP and other room correction gear but for some reason I still prefer the CLX's driven full range. I've also heard the mighty Neoliths, and although I really enjoyed the audition, overall my preference was a full range stat.

There's another chap in Costa Rica who is also using similar amplification to mine but partners his CLX's with the Martin Logan matching sub, which is supposed to be the most seamless blend between stat to LF driver. However, I've heard this similar config in another location and didn't quite find it matched the stat panels virtues. So I guess I'm still a bit hesitant although someday I may try it out, we'll see how it goes. 

 

Regarding the Apogee Diva's, those are outstanding! I had these very same ribbon panels back in Colombo, driven by two sets of high powered monoblocks, CJ Premier 8's and Manley 350's. Both amps were superb driving the Divas, although for pure musicality I preferred CJ. It's been my personal choice ever since, although I've used many other tube designs along the way with stats, and other types of panel speakers. 

 

The amplification and other gear you have are truly top notch! The Allnic is SOTA, and especially in preamplification, that's about the best it gets. I'm totally with you in this regard, and can imagine what a superb SOTA presentation you would be getting with your current line up of carefully selected components.

 

As for me, I still have a few more hurdles to go through... New house on the way, daughters higher ed, etc... hence all finances are going towards that. Plus the pic you would've come across is our present place, which I refer to as the "shoe box ". It's no where ideal for CLX's, let alone the big Quad stats that I previously. These big stats need room to breathe and unleash their full potential, so I have critically positioned the CLX's to present a pretty good soundstage, along with good depth but this is only around 70% of what they can do, as you are well aware of. 

 

This is also another reason why I have them angled in a fair bit, as the listening position is just 9-10ft away the most. That's about all I could squeeze in the shoe box, along the lines of being tolerated by the wifey in this madness, otherwise I'll be in the dog house for sure!

 

Do your Ayons use the KT150's?

Or are these solid state amps? I'm not too familiar with the Ayon line up, other than a handful of amps I've auditioned before at Con D's dealership and Kevin's, which was an Ayon integrated using KT150's.

 

Would love to hear your system one day, must make it a point to meet. I'm sure I can learn a whole lot more and obtain a further improvement from the CLX's.

Glad you touched base, and trust you're enjoying your music!

 

Very nice Haztone, that's some serious SOTA gear. Those CLX's will be performing at their finest!

Cheers, RJ

 

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G'day Haztone, 

I just happened to come across the specs on those magnificent Ayons, that should be plenty of adequate current to grip the CLX's impedence curve, no issues whatsoever!

 

CJ took a while to perfect the circuit for the KT150's, in the time being they optimised on the usage of the KT120 tubes that I'm currently using. It seems like they're not offering monoblocks any more, other than just one pair of limited edition ART300's. These amps only use 4 KT150's per side, along with a few 6922's as the single voltage gain stage, direct coupled to the driver / phase inverter stages and then onto the output stage, having just two pairs of KT150's per side operating in ultra-linear mode. The power supplies are rock solid as is the case with all of CJ's designs, and these things put out in excess of 300w per ch. However, on terms of driving CLX's it's not the power output that matters, it's the current and stable power supplies that matter most, as you know.

 

BTW, I'm using all Nordost Heimdall 2 interconnects including all power cords. The speaker cables are Nordost Frey 2. 

That's about it. 

Cheers, RJ 

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17 hours ago, Haztone said:

I also took a lot of time to ensure the crossover cover is exactly level as this also improves the sound.

This comment caught my eye. Is this because the crossover cover is in the reflective sound path of the back wave from the panels or for some other reason?

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No, because I read a review which stressed the importance of the crossover covers being level.  It gets the panel tilt angle correct and is the only sure way of getting sound from both speakers at the listening seat correctly time aligned. That is if the speakers are the same distance from the front wall and equidistant from the listening seat.

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G,day to you too big dog.

Tha Ayons are magnificent amps. One of the best I have heard. I had the Martin Logan Descent i subs which are optimised for the CLX's but the Gothams are the next level. They should be for 5 times the price. I listen to alot of rock music so I like to have a fair bit of bass. The Gothams are fast and tuneful as well as being flat to 20Hz. They also have good room correction. I bought a Minus K platform for my turntable and was fortunate to have Mark Doehmann of Continuum fame offer to come and set up my TT and the Minus K. His comment was that you would have to spend serious money to get better than the Ayons. For me the Ayons were serious money and I am very happy with them and anyway can really never afford to trade them. I will post some pictures over the weekend. I will also post when Graz finishes my reimagined Divas. They are a whole new design based on the Diva but with far superior construction methods. Graz is a perfectionist. He has incorporated Jarrah timber into the design at my request and I am hoping they will be finished in the next few months. All the best with your CLX's they are a fantastic speaker but like all audiophiles I am stuck on a continuous upgrade path as I can afford better stuff. Yes if you are ever in Mackay I would love to meet.

Regards,

Haztone

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Yes, understood Haztone, in reference to rock music and perhaps a full scale orchestra, the use of subs will definitely augment the bass in a very positive way with the CLX's, no doubt.

 

It's certainly good to be on the upgrade path, provided it's fully justified. To me it has to have at least a percentage factor of 40-45% in improvement, that's my benchmark or it wouldn't feel right, regardless of price. Believe me, I've heard some fancy priced gear that just doesn't deliver, for whatever reasons...

At the end of the day, as long as you're truly satisfied with the outcome, that's what I term "good enough".

 

A few known audiophile mates on WBF have gone through Graz's expertise in Apogee refurbishments, and they're truly amazed at the superior quality he offers. Compared to the original Apogee's, these restored ones are top notch! The build quality and fine workmanship is far superior to commercially available panels, and I think by using the existing frame or certain available parts, Graz is able to keep costs within limits...

There's another chap in Amsterdam named Henk, a total Apogee guru only dedicated to Apogee Divas and the Full Range model. I also just learned recently that he restores Duettas and a few other versions. 

 

I've always wondered why Graz doesn't produce a full Apogee range and re-introduced  that awesome Apogee sound... Only to learn the last time we actually spoke, he clearly mentioned that he does not have the resources to do so, and really didn't want to go into a production model, far too many factors to consider in such a niche market...

 

I think Graz just prefers to use much higher quality parts throughout and provide the best restored Apogee's money can restore! 

May I also add, once restored by Graz, oh my goodness do they sound superb!

 

The only drawback is you have to either own or find a used pair of Apogee's. To me the Apogee's will always be the reference in SOTA ribbon panel design. It's a crying shame they're no longer in production but at least there's a dedicated chap named Graz who lives in QLD restoring older models to surpass every other ribbon technology that comes out even today. 

 

It's funny talking about Apogee's, these are the Divas that I once owned, eventually sold off after nearly 20 years of ownership, been through numerous other panels, Quads, Maggies and now CLX's... But whenever I hear the word Apogee, that's a "statement" and the Divas for that matter are of legendary status. 

 

Perhaps one day I will make it a point to visit you when you get the Divas up and running, it will bring back so many memories, I might just cry... 😢 tears of joy!

 

I'm sure Graz will do a marvellous job, and these ribbons will deliver all and everything you're after. Simply outstanding! Nice one Haztone. 

Cheers and all the best, we'll be in touch. RJ

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Hi Big Dog,

I have added a couple of photos of my current setup and one of the new apogees in Graz's workshop partially completed.  I know of Henk in the Netherlands, he uses ribbons supplied by Graz but doesn't use the same construction materials that Graz uses.  I am sworn to secrecy over the build materials because Graz doesn't want me to give anything away to his competitors, rest assured that the clamps and other materials are far superior to the originals.  I am hoping to have these in the next couple of months and they will be one of only two pairs in the world and while based on the Diva, they will be improved in all aspects.  I also have an Aesthetix Io Eclipse phono stage but sparks and smoke came out of it one day and it is down at the menders to get them put back in.

 

I agree about upgrades but the cable upgrade was from Cardas Golden Reference and the sound is a marked improvement, cleaner, less sibilant and much reduced background noise.  Mark Lenehan lent me the cables to trial because he knew they would never come back.  They have been compared favourably to Nordost Odin which are 40 times the price.

 

Incidentally the motor on the turntable is one that Mark Doehmann advised me to listen to and it also has reduced noise and improved imaging, spatial information and lowered noise as well as improved rhythm, pace and timing.  I am very susceptible to sibilance as well as the steely sound of digital, it just doesn't sound right to me.  I believe that if you can get the human voice to sound natural then you are well on your way to getting a satisfying system and this has taken me many years, often of trial and error because you never really know how something is going to sound in your home.  I am very satisfied with the system as it sounds now but believe the Apogees will be my final purchase.  I will be advertising the ML's on this site when the Diva's arrive so if you know anyone looking for a cheap pair please tell them about these.

 

You are very welcome to come for a listen any time you are up this way.  Mark Doehmann, who owns a pair of Scintillas refurbished by Graz, has already asked me to let him know when they arrive so that he can come up for a listen.

 

Graz does make ribbon speakers under the Perigree name and I think he will produce more of the Divas to order once he has perfected my pair as the prototype so keep watching his website if you are interested.

 

Regards,

Haztone.

 

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Now that's more like it! 

 

That's another truly remarkable ML set up, very very nice.

 

OK so you're going to part with the CLX's, yes I can see why since the Divas are on the way... Awesome!

 

The critical aspect to getting the Divas to sound their best is nothing other than the main amplification and with that said, those Ayons will deliver all that is required to get those Divas to sing. And wow do they sing! 

 

Yes, I was aware that Graz makes a certain line of ribbon panels referred to synergy something, and under the name Perigee as you mentioned but I didn't know that he was actually going to launch a new Diva line, now that would be outstanding! 

 

I'll certainly contact him again sometime down the line to see what he's upto, it would be a great time to follow up.

 

When you're ready to sell off the CLX's, I think you would have to target a very select group who are passionate about full range stats. Only ML owners would understand what the CLX's are based upon and how they were created/designed.

 

There are definitely quite a few who would be very interested but I'm not sure if they've got the right sort of amplification that can handle the notorious impedence swing of such stats...

 

Even the high powered ones have fallen short driving my Quads when I was on a quest for monoblocks but that's a personal experience, obviously would be different to others. Speaking of which there's a chappy in Perth using PS Audio monoblocks on his Quads, being SS well capable of handling stats, so no issues there. Similar success with Pass Labs, Plinius and the like but like you I just prefer tubes... The soul in the music! 

 

I know of one chap who would definitely go for your CLX's, the only issue is he's based in the US. I can ask and see how it goes. This would also involve voltage conversion and a few other things... Might be too cumbersome but if there's a will there's a way! 

 

Will be in touch. I'll contact him and see what the pulse is for what it's worth. 

 

I can already imagine what those Divas will sound like through the power and finesse of those Ayons.

Excellent stuff! 

 

Cheers, RJ 

Edited by Big Dog RJ
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Guest Music monster

Wow upgrading from clx art,must be something special to do that. I’m looking forward to my magnapans 30.7s when they arrive soon cheers gary the music monster 🎶

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Hello Gary,

l have wanted a pair of Apogees since I heard them at Vince's store in Melbourne over 30 years ago so hoping they sound as good as I remember. Cheers Tony.

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Tony, 

I just came across something in your pics of the system, which our good mate the G-man also pointed out a similar config in mine... 

 

The use of that Thor! That thing absolutely strangles the CLX's top end, including the overall presentation which is effortless. 

 

When he came over and listened the first time, it was great no doubt but there was something holding its sheer power abilities... Only after about a week he asked me to disconnect the Thor, as he had the very same thing which ended up in the bin! 

 

I handed my Thor back to Damien as an Easter gift! 

 

Whatever the Thor did or didn't do, without it, believe me it takes the CLX's and the entire system to a whole new level!

 

I will never use that Thor unit again, plus in Aus we have pretty good stable AC mains, that's all that's really required. The high-end gear takes care of any AC mains fluctuations with their top notch built in regulators. The Thor is not required at all. 

 

However, if you're having certain fluctuations and unstable AC mains, which you're not...  The only device I can think of that will do a proper job without straggling the potential, is the PS Audio AC re-generator. Now that thing does a marvellous job, and it's not a cheap device. Might as well invest in something like that, based on the SOTA gear you have, rather than the Thor... 

 

Just thought I'd let you know. 

Cheers, RJ 

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Guest Music monster

Good eyes big dog I didn’t notice it.hopefully it’s only for the tv.Gary the music monster 🎶

Edited by Music monster
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Thanks RJ, the CLX's aren't powered through the Thor. I use it for the TV and other associated gear but not the stereo equipment. I had three dedicated lines on 20 amp fuses run for the power and these are used to power up all the stereo gear. I will post the speaker distances after the footy. My room is the existing garage so is 6m x 6.2m which is barely enough. I am not buying another house for the stereo so have to make do with what I have.

Regards,

Tony

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Ah! OK that's certainly good to know. The Thor keeps things at bay with the TV setup, good idea.

 

The restored Divas will sound extraordinary, no doubt! Will be a wonderful thing to cherish, recall and reminisce that legendary Apogee sound... 

 

I will definitely make a trip up there one day Tony, might also bring along the good wife, as I'll have to plan a small getaway just for her, and then sneak out for a listen... 

Should be tickety boo as long as she's in a good mood. Otherwise getaway, special weekend trip for two, plus Apogee audition ends up in a minor kaboom! All fuses blown including the mains 😤😳😫😶 and that's all she wrote! 

 

Cheers mate, RJ

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Hi Gary,

Thanks for the advice about the Thors, I am sure you will be happy with the Maggies when they arrive.  My first experience with Maggies was what started me on the high end road.  I heard a pair of Timpani's at a store in Brisbane and the sound was so lifelike that it blew me away.  I have been striving for that ever since.  Unfortunately I felt that the Maggies sound went backwards when they introduced the ribbon tweeter and their court case against Apogee is legendary.  I went to Bill McLean's and had a listen to the 3.6's when I was considering the purchase of a high end panel speaker.  I was interested in the 20.1 but Bill didn't have one in store.  Unfortunately I didn't like the treble integration which may have been due to the associated electronics, I think ribbons are more sensitive to this than any other speaker type.  The sound was extremely sibilant and HiFi-ish which is the opposite of what I am striving for and I eventually purchased the CLX's from Joe at Audio Connection.  I have read that the newer models have addressed this issue and I am sure that you will be very happy with yours.  Would love to come and have a listen next time I am in Melbourne.

Cheers,

Tony

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Guest Music monster

Hi tony yes I believe they have addressed the issues in the Maggie’s with the 30.7s.these are in a completely different league to all other Maggie’s made including the 20.7s. It’s there first 4 way speakers as well with a special lower midrange driver and there best midrange ever made,half the weight of the midrange in the 20.7s and uses new materials that magnapan are keeping a secret.they reproduce full range bass with power and dynamics approaching the best cone speakers and speed,snap agility that cone speakers cart match. When your down pm me and your welcome for a listen.cheers gary the music monster 🎶

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Thanks Gary,

I will certainly hold you to that and if you are ever in Mackay or the Whitsundays please get in touch and come and have a listen.

Cheers,

Tony.

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Hello again Gary,

One of the things I have noticed over the years, particularly with the American Hi Fi magazines is how they praise up new models of equipment, but when the next new model is released they point out what was wrong in the previous model that has now been addressed.  I noticed this in relation to the Magneplanar treble and, if you read back through the old reviews you will find what I am talking about.  I have always preferred the sound of panel speakers which I believe have far fewer shortcomings than cone speakers.  I have followed Magnepans development with interest since I first heard the Timpani.  I have been to Bill McLean's twice, the first time while he was at his old store.  Both times I found the treble to be too pronounced for my tastes but this was not mentioned in the articles from Stereophile or TAS until the model was superseded.  It just highlights that you should only use magazine reviews to narrow down what you want to listen to and then judge with your ears.

Incidentally I have owned a pair of Apogee Centaur Majors since 1992 and am still using them for the rear channels of the 5.2 system.

Cheers, Tony.

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I have owned Apogee Caliper and Stage loudspeakers in the past and was an active member on the Apogee Audioworld(?) Forum in the late 1990s which had many members from USA, Europe, Asia and Australia. Graz was a leading member. They were a good bunch of passionate and knowledgeable guys who in the main got along very well and the forum was a wealth of information on everything hi-fi. The Audioworld site folded after Graz accepted control of it due to lack of interest from others and started a sister website or some other intrigue at the time, can’t remember exact details right now?

 

I think you will find that the original Apogee Acoustics company Trademark expired in mid 2000s and that Graz (aka Graeme Keets from Queensland) is the new owner of the Apogee Acoustics brand name. From all reports Graz is a good bloke and his attention to detail in making ribbon speakers is second to none, so it seems the Apogee legend is in good hands. See his website here:

 

http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/specialprojects.html

 

Graz’s statement product is the new Apogee Definitive fullrange ribbon loudspeaker, which has an RRP of (ouch!) $105K USD.

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

 

 

.

Edited by Steve M
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2 hours ago, Haztone said:

I have always preferred the sound of panel speakers which I believe have far fewer shortcomings than cone speakers. 

Have you listened to some good open baffle cone speakers? They sound halfway between planars and regular cone speakers.

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Hello Itakku,

Yes I have heard some open baffle cone speakers. I heard a pair in Perth 10 years ago and you are right that they are close to panels but lack the speed of panels IMHO. They do tend to have the spatial presentation of panels and do have the advantage of bass slam. That's why I have the JL Audio Gotham v2 subs to add bass slam. I will keep them if the Diva's need them. If not I will sell them. I also heard Duntech Sovereigns years ago at Len Wallis audio and they were pretty special but totally out of my price range. I recently heard Mike Lenehan's speakers and they are very good as well.

Regards,

Tony

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Hello Steve,

Thanks for the post and information on Apogees.

I have been to Graz's place in the Sunshine Coast hinterland on many occasions since he started building my Diva's. I supplied the Jarrah for use in my speakers. Graz hasn't had a pair of Definitives there on any visit as they are only made to order.

Graz's workmanship, materials and attention to detail are second to none.

Last time I was there he had a pair of Diva's that he had rebuilt for an overseas client and they sounded brilliant.

Graz assures me that he will be improving on the Diva design in many important areas in my speakers including a lighter and much improved bass ribbon, a higher crossover frequency from bass to MR drivers. A wider MR ribbon and much improved crossover parts. It has been a three year journey which is getting close to completion and I am looking forward to the results of what are arguably the best speakers on the planet.

Regards,

Tony

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Guest Music monster

Yes tony I know exactly what you mean but pretty much all reviewers do this when a new model replaces an old model. I bought a pair of magnapans 1.7i just to hear how they sound in my room. The sound was very good, that’s why I purchased the 30.7s. These Maggie’s are truly full range and reproduce a huge and effortless sound that does not require subs. Big dog has herd them in Singapore and he was blown away. Check his thread out on stereonet.cheers mate. Gary the music monster 🎶

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