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Posted (edited)

I am wanting to install two dedicated circuits for hifi gear. One circuit for the power amplifiers and one for all the other gear. I had an electrician out today to give me a quote and he couldn't quite understand why I wanted to do it. I assume most sparkies would find these requests quite odd and not something that happens everyday.

 

It is a freshly renovated older home and one thing he noticed is it only has 6mm cable from the mains to the box. He mentioned if I was to upgrade this to 16mm cable I would need to move the meter boxes to the front of the property. Part of me just wishes he would run the 16mm without moving the meter boxes as it would be a very quick job with easy access to everything.

 

In the end he recommended installing one 32 amp circuit and one 20 amp circuit for the time being and see if the 6mm feed is adequate.

 

On a side note does anyone know any sparkies in Brisbane who have done this before and also what are the best GPO's to use?

Edited by kelossus

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Hmmm I really should get my contractors licence.

We he has suggested seems excessive as the current draw won't be anywhere near that. Cable size is good though.

Think Zaph and a few others comment on this a bit. If you do a search you should find what others have done.

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3 minutes ago, Bunno77 said:

Hmmm I really should get my contractors licence.

We he has suggested seems excessive as the current draw won't be anywhere near that. Cable size is good though.

Think Zaph and a few others comment on this a bit. If you do a search you should find what others have done.
 

I have done a quick read and most suggest running 6mm cable for the dedicated circuits. What he was pointing out is that the cable from the mains is only 6mm to begin with.

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Yeah I understand. He'd have to do some Max demand calcs and that will determine what he can add.
32 and 20 is excessive as current draw will be nowhere near that. He's just guessing.

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And maybe hoping.....

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I was kinda pushing for a 32 amp circuit but I think 20 amp circuits would suffice. I was just imagining have two huge Krell Monoblocks and wanting a larger circuit for them. Will likely never materialize though.

 

The main concern for me is the 6mm mains. I would really like to change it to 16mm, in line with current homes but having to move the meter boxes is a pain in the arse. Was hoping a sparkie on SNA would inform that their is no need/obligation to move the meter box or that 6mm from the mains would be enough. I doubt the latter though.

 

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10 amp outlets are enough for anything available in Australia, nothing draws close to 10amps. The breaker will be different.

It's really difficult to say without seeing your board and what's in the house and not something anyone but a contractor should give advice on really.

I'd get them to install 16a breakers, 6mm cable, 10a outlets. If it trips anything you would then need to upgrade mains. It won't though. I believe now the main iso should also be a breaker so it will be safe.

The thing is the legalities and Max demand.

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Why 6mm2 cable ?

4mm2 handles up to 30amps depending on length, voltage drop, installation (assume it is running through with insulation). 

30amps = 7200w. 

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52 minutes ago, frankn said:

Why 6mm2 cable ?

4mm2 handles up to 30amps depending on length, voltage drop, installation (assume it is running through with insulation). 

30amps = 7200w. 

Happy enough to use 4mm. No real reason to use 6mm but the sparky suggested it. It would be a roughly 20 metre run of cable. Any suggestion on cable to use?

 

The two cables will run external to the house in a conduit. I don't foresee this causing any issue?

 

Considering using these Elsafe GPO's.

QD-power-colours_2.jpg

image.png

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With the current draw, derating and length it could be 2.5mm2 like most domestic power circuits but many use a larger CSA for audio and believe there to be benefits. For the cost difference it is what I would most likely do. 

 

 

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It’s funny is t it - all the ppl here telling us that there’s no need for audiophile power cords, interconnects, power regeneration etc. because the effects cannot be measured and did you do a blind test blah blah. BUT when it comes to wires in the walls the same ppl ignore the science and the recommendations and say it sounds better??

Go with whatever your electrician tells you as long as you understand his reasoning. 

The cost difference is pretty low. 

 

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Haha yeah. But the price difference will be for in wall it really is negligible. Less than a single audio power cable so why not?

Yep good advice.

32 and 20a outlets are very industrial looking and probably not what you'd want in a house

The pic above are 10a outlets and in a house will need a switch as close as practicable to the outlet

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13 minutes ago, frankn said:

It’s funny is t it - all the ppl here telling us that there’s no need for audiophile power cords, interconnects, power regeneration etc. because the effects cannot be measured and did you do a blind test blah blah. BUT when it comes to wires in the walls the same ppl ignore the science and the recommendations and say it sounds better??

Go with whatever your electrician tells you as long as you understand his reasoning. 

The cost difference is pretty low. 

 

Do you think there is any issue with the 6mm cable feeding the house from the mains for a starter? From the fusebox to the mains tap on my roof there would be roughly a 5 meter run.

 

The fact my house only has a 6mm feed vs 16mm in modern houses may or may not be cause for concern?

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Sorry the sparky never said he was going to put a 32/20 amp outlet just 32/20 amp circuit breakers.

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It really depends on what is in your home ie type and size hot water, size of oven, lots of power circuits, pool, shed etc.

Only your electrician can determine that based on your individual house. If he is suggesting that he can add circuits already it shouldn't be an issue. If he was saying you need to upgrade your mains before he can add anything it would be different.

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Yeah OK, sorry for the misunderstanding re outlets

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First sparkie came back at $600 to run the two lines. Fairly reasonable, I really had no idea what to expect and I am quite happy with that price.

 

I did get a 2nd quote which I should be receiving the figures today. The 2nd Sparkie said he can run the 16mm from the mains to my house no worries and didn't mention having to move the meter box. I would like to mention this to this first sparkie but I don't want him to feel like I am second guessing him or worse, have him feel pressured to do something not to standards.

 

Also regarding the Elsafe GPO's. I don't know how they ever were recommended on SNA as they don't make any GPO's for residential use. Spoke to a Sales Rep this morning and all their products are suited for office/commercial use with no residential offerings.

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@kelossus Not sure why the first sparkie would have to move the meter box - he might have meant the point of attachment (where the aerial line attaches to the house). This might be to ensure the mains meets clearance requirements from the ground, but this is unusual as they often solve this problem with a riser (metal bracket) at the house. A couple of houses in my street had this issue after the local distributor measured clearances to the ground, particularly where the mains was from a pole on the other side of the road.

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2 hours ago, Whites said:

@kelossus Not sure why the first sparkie would have to move the meter box - he might have meant the point of attachment (where the aerial line attaches to the house). This might be to ensure the mains meets clearance requirements from the ground, but this is unusual as they often solve this problem with a riser (metal bracket) at the house. A couple of houses in my street had this issue after the local distributor measured clearances to the ground, particularly where the mains was from a pole on the other side of the road.

The meter boxes being at the rear of a house behind a gate are not compliant with current standards, or so I'm told.

 

If the electrician is to work on mains power they have to bring everything in accordance to current standards.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 29/08/2018 at 10:15 PM, kelossus said:

Happy enough to use 4mm. No real reason to use 6mm but the sparky suggested it. It would be a roughly 20 metre run of cable. Any suggestion on cable to use?

 

The two cables will run external to the house in a conduit. I don't foresee this causing any issue?

 

Considering using theseimageproxy.php?img=&key=a1aee8f6a7a51714 Elsafe GPO's.

QD-power-colours_2.jpg

 

image.png

Chris,

Having been there done that, I would suggest several 4mm circuits are more than fine for the job.  I have 3ea 4mm circuits feeding my setup and definitely noticed an improvement over the original single 2.5mm circuit ( my cable runs are approx 10m).  It is not so much a maximum demand thing rather a source impedance reduction (of the mains power supply) by using the heavier cable (ie >2.5mm).

4 and 6mm tps has a 2.5mm earth so I would suggest running a 6mm earth wire for each of the circuits back to the board to give a decent gauge star-earthing setup back to the earth bus.  I also found it to be beneficial upgrading the earth stake and cable run to the earth stake.  I use 16mm earth from the board to the earth stakes where I have 4 or 6 earth stakes in a cluster to improve the earthing ability.  Again a difference was noticed.

If you are happy to pay the extra dosh then putting 6mm circuits in is not a bad thing.  For me it made more sense to put that money into an additional circuit having one for amps, one for digital front end and one for analog front end.  I think the separation of components on the mains ie more circuits has more benefit than having 6mm instead of 4mm.

Quite a bit of difference in material cost for 6mm vs 4mm.

Bunno77's suggestions above

"I'd get them to install 16a breakers, 6mm cable, 10a outlets. If it trips anything you would then need to upgrade mains. It won't though. I believe now the main iso should also be a breaker so it will be safe. "

are good imo bar my comments re 4mm vs 6mm.  

Comes down to $ vs benefit of 6mm over 4mm. I have never directly compared the 2 sizes so cannot give first-hand comments but multiple 4mm ccts gives a crap-load of supply ability.

From an audio pov upgrading the 6mm mains mead-in would be a very good idea.  

16mm sq ie 63amp is standard minimum lead-in installed nowadays.

cheers

Rawl

 

 

Edited by rawl99

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Idiot question here. We are about to get a split system AC installed in my living room where the 2ch system is. They have to run a new circuit so I was wondering if I could get a couple more run at the same time. Not sure how the new one will be run but can multiple circuits be run side by side without side effects?

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Idiot question here. We are about to get a split system AC installed in my living room where the 2ch system is. They have to run a new circuit so I was wondering if I could get a couple more run at the same time. Not sure how the new one will be run but can multiple circuits be run side by side without side effects?
Not a bad question at all.

There will be some magnetic field and induction. If it will be audible I don't know.

If a sparky is running a cable for ac it will be easy/cheap to run another cable for your audio at the same time. I would just keep it separated if possible.

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Thanks. I currently have 1x double gpo and powering tv, streaming integrated 2x50W amp, Sonos amp, foxtel box, Apple TV, Project TT and Rel S3 sub. I’m using a Isotek 6 point power board for everything other than the amp which is direct to the othe point of the gpo. Should 1 extra circuit be enough?

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You could run two circuits and have 2 * 3 switched outlets, that’s what I did. 

Or you can have one circuit with a few dual outlets. 

Whether or not you will tell a difference is questionable. 

 

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14 hours ago, frankn said:

You could run two circuits and have 2 * 3 switched outlets, that’s what I did. 

Or you can have one circuit with a few dual outlets. 

Whether or not you will tell a difference is questionable. 

 

Thanks. So you haven't heard a benefit? My run will be pretty long, without measuring it has go almost the full depth of that side of the house, so probably up to 20m depending on how they run it. I'd go 2*4 switched outlets to give some future proofing. I currently have my rechargeable remote dock plugged in elsewhere as I've run out of points.

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