What is the ME secret sauce?

[cafe67]

I'm intrigued Invariably whenever a item of ME gear is advertised in the classifieds, (the same?) people will fall out of the sky tell say - it's the best thing since sliced bread, it's being sold way to cheap and the seller must have rocks in his head and will regret it selling it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by cafe67

[BATMAQN]

Don't regret selling mine.

 

It's not for everyone but it does have a passionate fan base that's for sure.

[Guest jakeyb77]

Buy it and try it 

Not for everyone but then nothing ever is nor should be.

For me it’s just a simple fact that for the money you won’t beat it. We are also lucky to have techs who can work on it easily should need be. Also it’s easy to work on which gives good turn around time.

I also have many old friends involved heavily in HiFi that respect the brand  that led me that way. 

But in the end it’s the sound. It’s effortless and engaging. 

 

 

 

[Cafad]

They are well designed, well built, don't cost the earth and still sound good.  Any company that follows these edicts will generally gather a fan base.

 

 

(HP with a dash of Worchesterchire, that's my secret sauce.  )

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

19 hours ago, cafe67 said:

I'm intrigued Invariably whenever a item of ME gear is advertised in the classifieds, (the same?) people will fall out of the sky tell say - it's the best thing since sliced bread, it's being sold way to cheap and the seller must have rocks in his head and will regret it selling it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Listen for yourself. All will become clear (literally).

 

Or not. ME amps are not for everyone. 

 

Here's some reasons why many listeners like Peter Stein designed ME equipment (preamps and power amps), over other brands (AFAIK, the following lists the ways that ME differs from most others):

 

* Every semiconductor in the amplification chain has been matched to within 1% tolerance for hFE (gain) and VBE. A typical parameter spread for a BJT is +/-300%. Few manufacturers bother selecting devices.

* Critical resistors are matched to better than 0.5% tolerance.

* Zero global NFB.

* Over-sized power transformers, compared to power output (f'rinstance: ME850 - 120 Watts @ 8 Ohms - 2,500VA power transformer)

* Over-sized, multiple capacitor arrays (f'rinstance: ME1400/1500 - 92 X 3,300uF capacitors) AFAIK, ME was the first company to pioneer this idea.

* Extremely compact output stages, thus reducing inductive effects of power supply wiring.

* Large amounts of capacitance placed close to output devices.

* In later models, an extremely sophisticated, closed loop cooling system, which maintains output device temperature to within +/- 5 Degrees C (55 degrees C). This ensures output devices are operated at continuously elevated temperatures, thus ensuring long life and optimal linearity.

* VERY highly matched capacitors and resistors in the RIAA network (<0.05% tolerance).

* No capacitors in the signal path.

* No inductors in the signal path (except the MC phono stage, which employs an inductor to kill RF energy above 100kHz)

* Very low OPEN LOOP output impedance for preamps and power amps.

* Collectors are coupled to loads (99.99% of all BJT amps couple emitters to load)

* High bias currents, which push amplification stages (preamps and power amps) well into Class A. (ME850 - 8 Watts Class A)

* Huge CONTINUOUS current capacity, relative to power output (ME1400/1500 220 Watts @ 8 Ohms - 100 Amps)

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[rantan]

3 hours ago, cafe67 said:

I'm intrigued Invariably whenever a item of ME gear is advertised in the classifieds, (the same?) people will fall out of the sky tell say - it's the best thing since sliced bread, it's being sold way to cheap and the seller must have rocks in his head and will regret it selling it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many brands have enthusiasts. I could name at least 10 or more, but don't wish to take this OT

 

ME is no different, so why the question?

[brumby]

I got into ME in the very early 1990s when I was cruising the Brisbane Hi Fi shops (no, there weren't many then and there aren't many now) looking for a new amp.  I was leaning towards an integrated but I wasn't averse to a power/pre combo if the price and the performance was right.  Anyway, over two days I hit EVERY shop in Brissie.  One stood out for me WAY ahead of all the rest.  That was Reg Mills Stereo near Wooloongabba run by Tony Mills.  His main event at the time was ME and Duntech, both Aussie products and at the time both exceptional value for money.  Tonyt sold me on the amps (and the Duntechs) by giving one of the best presentations it has been my pleasure to receive in any Hi Fi shop anywhere in the world.  And that includes Canada/US/UK/Europe/Hong Kong and Oz.

 

I lusted after an ME 850 but simply couldn't afford it.  I ended up with a 550/14 combo (I had no need of phono) which I ran happily for years into B&W and then Spendor and then Duntech (Viceroy) speakers.  If you're curious, you just have to hear them.  It's that simple.

 

ME amps were (and maybe still are although I haven't heard the new 580) standout Australian products.  There may be, probably are, better amps available.  But at the time and at the prices Peter Stein was charging, they were stonking bargains and superb amplifiers.

[cafe67]

41 minutes ago, rantan said:

Many brands have enthusiasts. I could name at least 10 or more, but don't wish to take this OT

 

ME is no different, so why the question?

Because I can 

[andyr]

33 minutes ago, brumby said:

I got into ME in the very early 1990s when I was cruising the Brisbane Hi Fi shops (no, there weren't many then and there aren't many now) looking for a new amp.  I was leaning towards an integrated but I wasn't averse to a power/pre combo if the price and the performance was right.  Anyway, over two days I hit EVERY shop in Brissie.  One stood out for me WAY ahead of all the rest.  That was Reg Mills Stereo near Wooloongabba run by Tony Mills.  His main event at the time was ME and Duntech, both Aussie products and at the time both exceptional value for money.  Tonyt sold me on the amps (and the Duntechs) by giving one of the best presentations it has been my pleasure to receive in any Hi Fi shop anywhere in the world.  And that includes Canada/US/UK/Europe/Hong Kong and Oz.

 

I lusted after an ME 850 but simply couldn't afford it.  I ended up with a 550/14 combo (I had no need of phono) which I ran happily for years into B&W and then Spendor and then Duntech (Viceroy) speakers.  If you're curious, you just have to hear them.  It's that simple.

 

ME amps were (and maybe still are although I haven't heard the new 580) standout Australian products.  There may be, probably are, better amps available.  But at the time and at the prices Peter Stein was charging, they were stonking bargains and superb amplifiers.

 

Interesting! 

 

I went shopping for amps and a TT in about 1979, due to receiving an insurance payout after the previous (newly-bought!!) items got stolen. (I reckon the hifi salesman who sold these new items to me, tipped off his burglar mate with the address that the stuff got delivered to! )

 

Anyway, Graeme Rodwell of 'The Soundcraftsman' played me a Linn LP12 ... and some other TT (whose name I forget) - and an ME pre/power combo vs. a Naim 12s/NAP110.  Listening to the opening bars of Jeff Wayne's "War of the Worlds", I thought the Naim amps were way ahead of the ME amps.  So I bought the Naim amps.    (And the LP12.)

 

Fast forward about 20 years and I became aware that my Naim amps (by that stage, I was running 3-way active and had a 140 and 2x 250s) were getting to the stage of needing a recap ... which was gonna be expensive!    So I began looking around for a kit replacement - something that sounded better and I could afford to buy ... because I could use some 'sweat equity'!

 

It took me a couple of years but I eventually found Hugh 'Mr @AKSA Dean' - in, of all places, Rosanna!  So I took one of my NAP 250s over to his place and compared it to his 'AKSA 55' - which blew the 250 away!  So I bought 3x AKSA amp kits and sold my Naim gear.    Since then I've had 2 AKSA module upgrades - which each sounded better than the previous iteration.

 

So it would certainly be interesting to compare my current AKSA amps against current (upgraded by ZB!) ME amps. 

 

Andy

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by andyr

[davewantsmoore]

58 minutes ago, rantan said:

ME is no different, so why the question?

To find out what the secret sauce is ?!

[Guest yamaha_man]

Had an ME-24, not bad for the money but the Krell KRC-HR blew it away. I now have a Esoteric C-03x and it blows the Krell away in every single respect. 

Min saying that his, I enjoyed my time with the ME gear and it was a great stepping stone to where I am now.

Also had ME amps and same as above, Krell, Gryphon, Nagra more to my liking.

[Guest jakeyb77]

15 minutes ago, yamaha_man said:

Had an ME-24, not bad for the money but the Krell KRC-HR blew it away. I now have a Esoteric C-03x and it blows the Krell away in every single respect. 

Min saying that his, I enjoyed my time with the ME gear and it was a great stepping stone to where I am now.

Also had ME amps and same as above, Krell, Gryphon, Nagra more to my liking.

Admittedly another price range also. 

Also a bit easier dealing with @Zaphod Beeblebrox or @PonyTail than that turkey that had your Krells.

 

I just don’t have the knackers to move that far up the tree 

Edited August 25, 2018 by jakeyb77

[Guest yamaha_man]

5 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said:

Admittedly another price range also. 

Also a bit easier dealing with @Zaphod Beeblebrox or @PonyTail than that turkey that had your Krells.

 

I just don’t have the knackers to move that far up the tree 

As I said, for the money

As for the knackers to climb that far up the tree, I remember fondly freaking out paying around  $1500 for my first ME-550 hi-cap, thinking to myself, WTF am I doing.

[Guest jakeyb77]

1 minute ago, yamaha_man said:

As I said, for the money

As for the knackers to climb that far up the tree, I remember fondly freaking out paying around  $1500 for my first ME-550 hi-cap, thinking to myself, WTF am I doing.

I’ve heard the story of when you bought the TADs. If that’s the case then the ME purchase was a walk in the park. Haha 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 hours ago, rantan said:

Many brands have enthusiasts. I could name at least 10 or more, but don't wish to take this OT

 

ME is no different, so why the question?

You make a really, REALLY excellent point. 

 

Sansui, Yamaha, Sony (TAN series), Accuphase and others have deservedly very strong followings. These products (particularly the older ones) were built to very high standards and were far from the 'cookie-cutter' designs that are so common today. There are two that stick in my memory:

 

The mighty Marantz 1200b. The last US built integrated amp. Based on the 240 power amp and a simplified 3300 preamp. Wonderful amp. It was the first Marantz amp I purchased. 

 

The Sansui  AU9500. I traded this thing many years ago as a non-functioning amp. Anyway, a customer spied it in the corner of my workshop and offered me more money than I thought was reasonable for such a beat up thing. I duly cleaned the amp inside and out, cleaned with switches, replaced the electros, re-biassed it and plonked it on the bench for a test run. WOW! That thing really preformed brilliantly. One test I always do, to sort the good amps from the rest (which usually leaves about 1% good ones), is to drive it into clipping and observe the waveform. Very few amps deliver a nice clean clipped waveform. But this old Sansui did. In spades. Damned thing clipped like an ME. Then I hooked it up to my speakers. Another WOW! damned thing sounded very nice indeed. I developed a lot more respect for Sansui at that point.

 

In any case, you are bang-on. There are many good products, with avid fans. In most cases, deservedly so. In some, not so much. Like many companies, Sansui turned out some absolute shockers, but when they really tried hard, their products were frequently very good indeed. 

[Wimbo]

One day I'll have to listen to a good ME system of these days as the ME gear I use to sell back in the early 90's IMO was woeful except for the 850 PA.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

2 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

One day I'll have to listen to a good ME system of these days as the ME gear I use to sell back in the early 90's IMO was woeful except for the 850 PA.

Where did you sell ME gear from?

[Wimbo]

Store in Sydney mate.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

1 minute ago, Wimbo said:

Store in Sydney mate.

Which one?

[Wimbo]

I'm retired now, so no need to go there. Did work at the same place for 26 years though.

[arthur63]

I think ME developed a loyal following amongst some, myself included, partly due to being home grown.

And we found the sound and performance also to be pleasing. 

For me audio is a subjective thing and ME fulfils my amplification needs.  

[rantan]

2 hours ago, cafe67 said:

Because I can 

Fantastic.

[cafe67]

2 minutes ago, rantan said:

Fantastic.

You’re welcome 

[cafe67]

4 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

You make a really, REALLY excellent point. 

 

Sansui, Yamaha, Sony (TAN series), Accuphase and others have deservedly very strong followings. These products (particularly the older ones) were built to very high standards and were far from the 'cookie-cutter' designs that are so common today. There are two that stick in my memory:

 

The mighty Marantz 1200b. The last US built integrated amp. Based on the 240 power amp and a simplified 3300 preamp. Wonderful amp. It was the first Marantz amp I purchased. 

 

The Sansui  AU9500. I traded this thing many years ago as a non-functioning amp. Anyway, a customer spied it in the corner of my workshop and offered me more money than I thought was reasonable for such a beat up thing. I duly cleaned the amp inside and out, cleaned with switches, replaced the electros, re-biassed it and plonked it on the bench for a test run. WOW! That thing really preformed brilliantly. One test I always do, to sort the good amps from the rest (which usually leaves about 1% good ones), is to drive it into clipping and observe the waveform. Very few amps deliver a nice clean clipped waveform. But this old Sansui did. In spades. Damned thing clipped like an ME. Then I hooked it up to my speakers. Another WOW! damned thing sounded very nice indeed. I developed a lot more respect for Sansui at that point.

 

In any case, you are bang-on. There are many good products, with avid fans. In most cases, deservedly so. In some, not so much. Like many companies, Sansui turned out some absolute shockers, but when they really tried hard, their products were frequently very good indeed. 

Funnily enough the 2 other brands on these pages that seem to have an equally fervent following would be Sansui and Duntech

[Wayne Elliott]

5 hours ago, yamaha_man said:

Had an ME-24, not bad for the money but the Krell KRC-HR blew it away. I now have a Esoteric C-03x and it blows the Krell away in every single respect. 

Min saying that his, I enjoyed my time with the ME gear and it was a great stepping stone to where I am now.

Also had ME amps and same as above, Krell, Gryphon, Nagra more to my liking.

Similar to my experience. Had a ME-25, around mid 90's. Did an ok job in a more budget/mid set-up. Once I upgraded a few Components it was the limiting factor. Uprading to a better Pre-Amp was a massive step up in sound and improvement in System. Have 6 Pre-Amps now. All are a significant step up in sound quality.