TV Calibration Poll

[Guest DarkNark]

HI all

 

I have just bought new TV, a Panasonic EZ950. I have been following some of the threads about calibration and just was wondering what people who have paid for it to be done experiences were. 

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Edited August 13, 2018 by DarkNark

[Guest DarkNark]

Well its good to see that all people have had a positive result. That has eased my concerns. I wouldn't like to pay for a service where there were little to no gains.

 

Is it TV dependant? The reviews of my TV says it has a good picture out of the box. Does this mean that I am less likely to see an improvement?

 

To the DIY'ers, I am assuming that I can buy the equipment to calibrate it myself for about the same price? Was it a steep learning curve?

 

PS. Thanks to the moderator who moved the poll to the correct section.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[betty boop]

29 minutes ago, DarkNark said:

Is it TV dependant?

it can be....I was all set to get my tv calibrated as it was originally all planned to do with the deal, however the calibrator was very busy but he was kind enough that he still told me while tv was running in to select certain modes. I also as I always have had done some basic calibration/setup using setup discs. as happens the calibrator got out of the business and I never bothered to follow up as the telly as it is was really quite good enough as I had it with the minimum of basics and right mode selected

 

the first projector I had also found there was a mode that was best selected and did what I could do with basic setup and light meter. When got around to it in calibration with help of a friend guess what we found it actually the was so close to when we calibrated that for many it might not have been worth it. 

 

similarly with last two projectors I haven't bothered with a professional calibration, did what I could with the basics and help with a friend with calibrating that got to place that was pretty happy with things and learnt a massive amount as part of the process ! . similarly with the current projector did basics and with light meter, when came to calibration it luckily comes with a auto calibration tool which coupled with an inexpensive meter and with help got head around to get to an excellent space. 

 

the learning curve with this stuff can be steep. but I'd suggest to everyone to get a handle on what is best modes and understand the basics colour, brightness, contrast at the very least in setting up with a setup disc. as far as out of box, I dont know your telly but most I find come with shop settings ie cranked to the max retina burning to catch attention but hardly natural or even good for the sets in the long run. 

 

for many a professional calibration is probably the best thing should be doing. have to make own judgement calls whether worth it to you or not. definitely with much stuff I woudl say just out of box would be plain wrong and doing a dis service to just leave as such and if to get to point doing it justice best there is nothing wrong with getting professional help  

[Guest DarkNark]

Thanks for the reply Al

14 minutes ago, al said:

I also as I always have had done some basic calibration/setup using setup discs.......

I have read about the setup discs but they seem to need to be ordered online. Would you have a suggestion for a particular disc, as there seems to be a few available.

27 minutes ago, al said:

I dont know your telly but most I find come with shop settings ie cranked to the max retina burning to catch attention but hardly natural or even good for the sets in the long run. 

Agreed. They are definately set up to grab attention and I kept this in mind when looking at them. I asked the shop to show me FTA, which they did, but considering it would have been set up from the original boot screen as "shop" rather than "home use" I am not sure that would have helped.

 

I have set the mode to Professional 1, which the internet tells me is the best setting. I just tweaked one setting in that mode which was I turned ambient sensor to on which apparently "allows for automatic control of display luminosity relative to ambient brightness." I figure this is a good thing, but maybe not.

 

35 minutes ago, al said:

for many a professional calibration is probably the best thing should be doing. have to make own judgement calls whether worth it to you or not. 

I understand. It was the main reason for the poll. At this stage everyone has said it was a positive thing, so that helps me make a decision. I'll just have try and find  a TV calibrator in Perth. My google fu is letting me down on that front.

 

Dave

[Guest DarkNark]

52 minutes ago, al said:

with getting professional help  

Not the first time I have been told I need professional help! 

[Addicted to music]

I confess, diy for me....all the way!  

 

 

[betty boop]

17 minutes ago, DarkNark said:

I have read about the setup discs but they seem to need to be ordered online. Would you have a suggestion for a particular disc, as there seems to be a few available.

there are a few options, for just dvd/blu-ray fta tv and such there is the disney wow disc(what I use). there is also the DVE setup disc and also the spears and munsill disc. google these though I have to say I havent looked for a while on their availability.  there are also freebie ones eg THX discs like the Incredibles I have on both DVD and blu-ray have the little THX optimiser thrown in for free and will get you the basics. similarly on uhd if you hit the numbers corresponding to SONY on any sony uhd title it will bring up the "sony eggs" and they are setup patterns though you need to know what you are doing with them ! 

 

you can also download setup patterns eg from avs. for uhd and HDR you can also buy patterns eg what are R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns though again need to know what you are doing with those. 

 

for many just basics for DVD/blu-ray FTA telly is probably pretty straight forward I'd say to getting pretty good results, HDR and UHD tends to complicate things ! not insurmountable though if willing to put in time and effort to understand

17 minutes ago, DarkNark said:

I understand. It was the main reason for the poll. At this stage everyone has said it was a positive thing, so that helps me make a decision. I'll just have try and find  a TV calibrator in Perth. My google fu is letting me down on that front.

https://www.homeimprovementpages.com.au/connect/hometheatreengineering/service/266390

 

andrew poole who is with the HAA(home acoustic alliance) has been doing work in your neck of the woods for years, maybe worth getting in touch to explore as an option  

[Guest DarkNark]

7 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

I confess, diy for me....all the way!  

Can you let me know what you use? There seems to be a lot of options ranging from cheap to not so cheap. I am not adverse to buying what I need if its in the $500 range.

5 minutes ago, al said:

...... there are also freebie ones eg THX discs like the Incredibles I have on both DVD and blu-ray have the little THX optimiser thrown in for free...

This may be an easy option. The other discs need to be ordered online it seems. 

 

11 minutes ago, al said:

 

https://www.homeimprovementpages.com.au/connect/hometheatreengineering/service/266390

 

andrew poole who is with the HAA(home acoustic alliance) has been doing work in your neck of the woods for years, maybe worth getting in touch to explore as an option  

Thanks

 

[Tweaky]

You can download the files to burn your own Test Disc from the AVS forum at the link below.....these are for standard HD...otherwise known as the REC 709 spec.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

 

Truth be known, most new TV's are pretty good colour wise, and don't need that much adjustment of the primary's [RED, Green Blue], it's usually needed more to get rid of slight colour casts in the secondaries [Yellow, Cyan, and especially Magenta]...a lot depends on what colour preset setting you choose to base your calibration on....you want the one closest to D65.

On my Panasonic EX780a that's 'Warm 2' in the colour Temp settings.

 

Where the BIG DIFFERENCE is seen is when you calibrate the GREY SCALE, this goes for any type of TV/PJ regardless of tech used.

 

My TV which I bought last NOV looked OK at first when I first started using it, but after viewing a wider selection of Free to air/ Blueray/4K material over a week or so, didn't take me long to realize  that the Grey Scale must of been out.....[Normally I would have waited at least a month before I did a first calibration, just so the circuitry had time to bed in]

Anyway, once I started measuring the grey scale, just one look at the graph as the metering was going through each IRE measurement, it became all too plain to see that the Grey Scale was WAY OUT, I mean ridiculously so.

 

Once I calibrated the Grey Scale it was like getting a much much more expensive TV for free, the difference was massive [well to my eyes]

I look for great graduation as being the sign of a good picture, where you can see the folds in Darth Vadaer's black cloak for instance, something that you won't be able to see if the Grey Scale is out.

Everything just appears more realistic once you have your TV calibrated, slight details that you would not usually notice are readily seen, this is apparent in skin tones / the clothes the actors are wearing/ scenes of gardens-forests etc.....you get to see all the small differences in shades of what might otherwise be perceived as the same colours....this is what calibration gives you.

 

It's not hard to DIY, I recommend ChromaPure calibration software as I find it easy to use, and there is a very well written 'Calibration For Dummies' guide using this software at the Curt Palme CRT site [link below]

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322

You can purchase it via his site or the ChromaPure site...price for the Standard version is US $200.....the software has it's own built in test patterns, and the actual metering sequence is done automatically once you start the process.....that gives you your 'Pre-Calibration' figures, which tell you what is out of whack and by how much......then you start the calibration process.

http://www.chromapure.com/products-chromapure-new.asp

 

The Meter most DIY people use is the Xrite i1display pro....current price is AUS $349

IMHO I think your best served to by that from a seller in Australia, the savings are minimal if buying from OS....the meter is pretty much the same price everywhere, you can get it at the link below

https://imagescience.com.au/products/calibrators/calibrator-recommendations

 

I'll just mention that if you do intend to go down this path, it's best to buy the meter first, the reason is because you need the serial number of the meter to give to ChromaPure when you order the software, [Xrite meters are normally locked to only to be used with Xrites own calibration software - which you also get with the meter, but Xrites software is of no use for TV/PJ calibration]

ChromaPure sends your serial number to Xrite, and they in turn send a unlock code to ChromaPure, when they then send to you via Email.....you enter the code into the ChromaPure software and your meter will now work.

[Guest DarkNark]

3 hours ago, Tweaky said:

You can download the files to burn your own Test Disc.......

@Tweaky Oh wow! Thanks for your detailed instructions and links. It may take me a few days to get through and absorb, but rest assured I will.

 

Well it appears the majority of people have had a positive experience and a few people are interested in the trying it. No real surprise that 50% of people have gone the DIY route, since it's an enthusiasts forum.

 

I have had a quote to get my TV done and it's in the ballpark of what I thought. However, I was surprised that it was just for HD and UHD is a seperate price. Or a package combining HD and UHD together. For the combined price I could easily buy the software and meter.

 

[Tweaky]

The ChromaPure software will also calibrate 4K extended gamut....otherwise known as REC 2020 spec...you just change the parameters from the list where you would otherwise choose REC 709.

 

BUT, you need a different set of test patterns to do it, I think AL mentioned this in a earlier reply.

 

Easily bought for the princely sum of US $25 from Diversified Video Solutions....[Hopefully they would have finally got a definitive version, they have updated it 3 times in the last few months....I wouldn't mind but it's a 8GB+ download each time and takes ages]

https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/dvs_uhdhdr-10.html

 

You want the DVD UHD/ HDR-10 test patterns.....you need to mount them on a USB stick and read them from your 4K disc player

 

[metalheadz]

I paid l have my OLED calibrated, and to be honest the difference was so minimal in don’t think its worth the investment. You can get good enough results with a diy disc

[Tweaky]

Did the calibrator leave a 'Before' setting for you to compare against the calibrated ones ?

Depending on the TV/PJ, the differences can vary greatly on perceived 'Improvement', some require little work, others a lot.

Some calibrators calibrate to a standard, others to a 'Look' that some people find more enjoyable....Gamma 2.4 or higher for example, I don't know what your calibrator calibrated to so it's hard to assess why you find little perceived difference between Pre and Post calibration...[Have a look in your TV's settings..probably in advanced picture adjustments, and see what Gamma the calibrator set it at]

Also the calibrator would have calibrated the TV to your highest available source, probably a Bluray or 4K disc player,  viewing anything other than that is only going to show the difference of the source material, which with Free to Air for example can jump around all over the place.....FTA Sports is usually the best thing to judge a picture with as most people would be familiar with what it should look like in real life.

 

It's not unheard of for people to be underwhelmed once having their TV/PJ calibrated, probably in the mistaken belief that calibration will result in a picture that is 'MORE', for loss of a better description.

I think that's because they are so used to looking at a uncalibrated TV, and think that 'What they saw at the Store' is the best picture quality, which is just so Not True [I equate store displays like putting 10 teaspoons of Sugar on everything you eat]

You can calibrate a TV/PJ to be less than accurate, but to have more punch and still have a enjoyable picture, a lot depends on what Gamma you are calibrating to, the higher your gamma from 2.2 the more colour saturated a picture can seem.

 

The use of a disc can only give you the most rudimentary of calibration, that being Brightness, Contrast and colour decoding if you have the Red Green and Blue gels to look through.

 

Grey scale tracking [The B&W base of a image that colour is imposed on top of, and is responsible for how many shades you can see] needs a meter and software to do, and pretty much every TV/PJ will be out of whack until calibrated, some are really poor in this regard.

On the other hand, the colour reproduction of a lot of new TV's is pretty good straight out of the box on most modern TV's , and only needs a little adjustment.....strange the manufacturers can repeatably get one spec so right and the other so out of whack.....Go figure.

[metalheadz]

Tweaky,

Yes, he displayed the before and after calibration images. Grey had a slightly green tinge, Skin tones more natural. The improvements were not drastic.

Gamma is set to 2.2. Oppo 203 was the source. The display was calibrated to a standard for SD and HD, UHD I’m not sure.

There’s a small amount of jitter as motion controls are all off. The display looks fantastic. Although if I had know there would be an issue with colour banding I’d have held off until it has been addressed in newer models.

[Tweaky]

I think it is safe to turn those motion controls back on again.....rather pointless having a calibrated screen if you are suffering screen judder, I wouldn't put up with it.

Just adjust them if possible, so they just make a difference, and nothing more, probably MPEG Motion as well if you stream.

 

I'm guessing from the issues that you describe your TV is/was suffering, that it is a LG.

 

From what I'm hearing I think the new LG panels still suffer the same problems.

It's partially caused by the strange pixel structure LG has chosen to implement in their panels to basically 'Fudge' a screen that is perceived as brighter.

 

Red, Blue and Green, when shown at the same intensity equal 100% White, but it is the Green channel that carries the Luminence details [ How bright it will appear]

 

What LG has done is to make a larger irregular shaped pixel [think of a lightning bolt ] in the middle of other square pixels, and this pixel pattern runs all over panel.

This larger pixel is delegated it to carry the Green channel, this doesn't throw colour accuracy out to unbearable levels, but can and does leave a Greenish colour cast to a picture.

 

The sole reason they have made this odd shaped pixel in among the normal ones is that it also makes the screen seem around 25%-30% brighter.........It also makes LG panels with this pixel structure very close to impossible to calibrated properly unless you know about this idiosyncrasy , only because it fools the meter into reading wrongly.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tweaky

[CAVX]

I confess, diy for me....all the way!  
 
 

I have no issue with DIY.
Do you have a colorimeter?

Getting the grey scale to D6500K is not sometime you will not do by eye, especially for 10 point adjustments on a TV.

[CAVX]

 

 

 

 

Red, Blue and Green, when shown at the same intensity equal 100% White, but it is the Green channel that carries the Luminence details [ How bright it will appear]  

What LG has done is to make a larger irregular shaped pixel [think of a lightning bolt ] in the middle of other square pixels, and this pixel pattern runs all over panel.

This larger pixel is delegated it to carry the Green channel, this doesn't throw colour accuracy out to unbearable levels, but can and does leave a Greenish colour cast to a picture.

 

The sole reason they have made this odd shaped pixel in among the normal ones is that it also makes the screen seem around 25%-30% brighter.........It also makes LG panels with this pixel structure very close to impossible to calibrated properly unless you know about this idiosyncrasy , only because it fools the meter into reading wrongly.

 

One of the most important things I learned at the ISF course was that grey scale is a specific x,y point and not just 100% RGB.

 

Grey in video is x:0.313, y0.329.

 

Display type pending, 100 green may move the point higher (or lower) than y:0.329. If that happens to read higher (example y:0.332), then yes, your images will have a green hue to them.