2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

Davo1972 · October 19, 2018

1 hour ago, Javs said:

Anyone cross shipping the models, which is what most people do who throw this much cash on a piece of electronics will compare the feature set and find that for what you get (remember we are in the era of the OLED) when they see native contrast 80k and Dynamic 800k and Sony says 350K, its going to make the JVC look better on paper on top of all else, 100lm brighter. 103% DCI coverage. All glass lens.

I think you have little confidence in the intelligence of buyers, you need to give people more credit in making considered shopping decisions, its why JVC was in trouble in the past, it was fake 4K, its a really tough sell when you can simply say one is real 4k and one is not. Now that cannot be said.

Opinions differ, so lets leave it there.

You pretty much described what I've done.

My plan was to upgrade my projector, and I wanted an LCOS technology projector.

I was watching the heavy discounting on the 550ES, then saw the 570ES was announced last month with some improvements over the 550ES. So I was keen to get a 570ES.

Decided to have a quick reality check and see if JVC had announced anything new. Saw they had announced a new line of native 4K projectors, cross checked the specs with the Sony and saw that, on paper, the N7 appeared to have superior specifications at a similar or better price point. I'll admit that native 4k is the draw for me (I know it's not right but I just can't get my head around e-shift being as good as native 4K) but the combination of native 4K and the contrast specs of the N7 on paper are a real drawcard for me.

Either way, if the contrast on the N7 is worse than the outgoing e-shift models it won't matter to me anyway, because the N7 is such a massive upgrade over my current 10+ year old single chip DLP projector that I won't know any better To be honest the subjective reports I'm reading all over the internet (AVS forum, German and Italian AV websites etc.) regarding the performance of the N5 and NX9, have not made me worry at all about ordering the N7 sight unseen.

betty boop · October 19, 2018

looks like Ekki has done some comparisons reckons overall the N5 a worthy competitor for the sony 270

"Found by a member of a UK forums.

First impression of the N5 from Ekki Scmitt from cine4home

Here are a few visual impressions:
Black level and contrast very good (quite similar to X5 series, both black and in-picture contrast).
Could not make any serious mistakes of the FI, I liked it a lot.Of course, better than X series.
Sharpness very good, but no "magic".
HDR presentation was not final.With Peters "Arve like" optimization but good, as with X series
DCI color filter system has been changed to X-series, so unfortunately the N5 no longer reaches the DCI red, like his little X5 brother. The result is a well-saturated red, but with yellowing.
Green as good as a top X5 (they came quite far with green)
Panel PWM noise in dark grayscale as in the X series, I have specially checked with a freeze frame.
You can look in from the outside into the light engine (see photo)
Overall a worthy competitor to the Sony VW270."

also a note from RK10YJ from the uk,

looks like will be doing some comparisons with the n5 vs the v270.

"do not know if it is exactly the same as a Sony (as had no Sony to reference it against), but it did seem to be an obvious improvement to what I am used to. I will be testing the N5 against the VW270 over the weekend/early next week, so should be able to confirm after some testing. I cant imagine the NX9 will have a vastly different sync time compared to the N5."

I wish he'd compare with the 5900 or n7 but will have to do and should hopefully get some thoughts on how stacks up

TP1 · October 19, 2018

Also from Ekki on Cine4home

TP1 · October 19, 2018

7 hours ago, Javs said:

The closest Sony competitor to the N5 is actually the 570ES.

No its the 270ES.

5 hours ago, Javs said:

I was under no illusions in the past that Sony was the only native 4K game in town. Not any more.

But JVC dealers and fans were arguing all over the interweb that resolution didn't matter - only contrast did. Ive seen JVC people swear there is no noticeable differences with 4k. The new JVC models simply validate the approach Sony took all along and JVC buyers would have a right to be miffed at the previous approach. And before you quote contrast numbers, lets see them in action first under real conditions. Shutting down irises might give nice numbers but when you need massive amounts of light for a big screen with a fading bulb that will get another 20-30% reduction of light (when you engage the DCI-P3 filter), the scenario changes quite quickly.

TP1 · October 19, 2018

Duplicate post

Edited October 19, 2018 by Tasso

poppybob · October 19, 2018

What i can't understand about this new JVC projector line is how understanding everyone is of the new prices.

Last year people generally viewed the 7900 as good value at around 7k , and viewed the 9900 as too expensive at 10ishk for what you got.

Now we have a full 4k and its adding on 75% more cost for the equivalent NX7 and 100% more for the NX9. How are people not outraged by the increase in cost??

Yes, its now got 4k, fancy lens, dual iris bla bla bla, but does that justify the massive increase in cost? The way i view it is, that this is just the next step, the next feature, like when tv's went from 1080p to 4k, or when 3D was all the rage. And with all these changes, TV's have stayed relatively similar prices.

I just don't get how everyone is now comfortable spending so much more than the model before it. Maybe its just me, and if i had more money to throw around i wouldn't care about paying 5k more for a NX7, but for now it seems crazy.

Couldn’t agree more. It’s like a new model Holden or Ford being released with new features, do they double the price?
Very bloody cheeky in my view. [emoji35][emoji35]

Javs · October 19, 2018

8 hours ago, Tasso said:

No its the 270ES.

How on earth do you figure that?

Do you want to explain then for everybody, how you think a projector with 1500 lumens, no DI, 16k max contrast, and no lens memories, can compete realistically in feature set with a projector that has 1800lm, a DI, 15-40k (native) - 150k max contrast (dynamic), 10 lens memories and support for Autocal?

Ekkis statement on how the N5 can compete with a 270ES was honestly comical. Maybe he was referring only to price point.

In terms of complete feature sets, the N5 is comparable to a 570ES only.

The $1500 up from a 270ES suitably gets you all those missing features, in the past, Sony would charge $5-6,000 for the same thing! Remember the 360ES and the 550ES? 300lm only, that was the difference.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Javs

T800 · October 19, 2018

9 hours ago, poppybob said:

Couldn’t agree more. It’s like a new model Holden or Ford being released with new features, do they double the price?
Very bloody cheeky in my view.

Agree, hope it bites them in the ass. Surprised Epson has released a new 4k affordable projector to replace the 9300 (9400 fake 4k is pointless)

Spizz · October 19, 2018

SONY VPL-VW570ES test

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/19/10/2018/test-sony-vpl-vw570es-lavis-de-gregory/

Also the other one.........

http://cine4home.de/sony-vpl-vw270-vw570-exklusive-ergebnisse-zum-serienschnitt/

Edited October 20, 2018 by Michael391

oztheatre · October 20, 2018

9 hours ago, T800 said:

Agree, hope it bites them in the ass. Surprised Epson has released a new 4k affordable projector to replace the 9300 (9400 fake 4k is pointless)

Did you meant hasn't? enhanced 4k, e-shift etc, all very impressive if you ask me. Most beneficial with an LCD projector as it helps reduce that ghastly pixel gap they have.

Spizz · October 20, 2018

I don't think Epson is close to releasing a native 4k projector for the HT market at a reasonable price point, reason being the only native 4k I have seen from them is a laser commercial pro unit costs over $80k USD. The rep even mentions they only use native 4k in select applications-

Epson

Edited October 20, 2018 by Spizz

T800 · October 20, 2018

2 hours ago, oztheatre said:

Did you meant hasn't? enhanced 4k, e-shift etc, all very impressive if you ask me. Most beneficial with an LCD projector as it helps reduce that ghastly pixel gap they have.

oops, yeah mean hasn't, before everyone thinks they have released a new one. Yeah the 9300 is a great machine, but Epson are normally the front runners with new tech in their projectors, Maybe thy are just waiting until the time is right and the cost of parts to go down/technology to improve/hdmi 2.1 etc.

Edited October 20, 2018 by T800

betty boop · October 20, 2018

2 hours ago, T800 said:

oops, yeah mean hasn't, before everyone thinks they have released a new one. Yeah the 9300 is a great machine, but Epson are normally the front runners with new tech in their projectors, Maybe thy are just waiting until the time is right and the cost of parts to go down/technology to improve/hdmi 2.1 etc.

the 9300 is indeed a very good machine for the money. the 9400 fixes up a few things, and while not 4k native it I am quite sure would be more than sufficient for a lot of folk for the money.

Epson actually has been a bit cautious in quite a few years. eg the 9000 model didnt get 3D after quite a few others makers had already introduced however it was very good at it. same goes with 4k uhd where were a bit lacking with full bandwidth hdmi chip and the like which only now the 9400 will fix. what they need to do is get their flagship laser unit sorted which is quite lagging. epson is a bit of a giant lot larger than likes of jvc. but still they tend to perfect and only then release. so we might b e waiting a while ...

Javs · October 21, 2018

20 hours ago, Tasso said:

Give me a break! We have all been to dealers who push one brand hard, and who say they can still supply the other but slam it nevertheless. We know where you stand. I realise that SNA is pretty relaxed about these things but the direction you have taken on this nothing but a sales pitch. Anybody with experience with audio gear will know that you cannot judge whether you will like the sound of an amplifier or DAC for example based solely on a couple of specs that the dealer throws out . Projectors are no different and people have differing preferences on what constitutes the best for them.

Before anything else, I am an enthusiast. I have owned both brands, and put thousands of hours on each of them. Its funny that when you dont agree with me, you just chalk up my motivation as being a dealer and some kind of sales pitch, not the first time somebody has thrown that stick at me. Sorry but you are wrong. I will take a baseball bat to JVC just as fast as any brand. In fact, I am NOT bashing a brand here, I am correcting the misconception from all, that the 270 somehow competes with the N5 on a feature level, frankly, that idea is outrageous. The N5 has a plethora of features which the 270 does not, this is not a jab, its an actual fact this year, its also why half of AVS let out a collective sigh and laughed when Ekki said that, he should have compared it to a 570ES since they are not only then just about equal in brightness and pretty darn close in contrast too, both native and dynamic, and would be much more comparable when set up correctly in a room.

Quote

You forget to mention Sony's superior motion handling and up converting electronics which is evident when you see the projectors in action. As we know Ekki has seen both in action. The auto iris is a better sales feature than it is in actual use IMO, unless you like seeing the picture pumping as the iris opens and closes. Not to mention when it gets it wrong altogether . And good luck when you want to watch an HDR movie when you get a 20-30% cut in light output with the JVC when the DCI-P3 filter is engaged, particularly after the bulb has racked up some hours. Then reduce the light further with the iris and you will be lucky to have a watchable image at all. It will only get worse with bulb time.

This one is up in the air in regards to these new models, Ekki seems to be singing high praise about the FI and motion on the new range, he mentioned it more than once, FI is a feature I dont like anyway. Sure the native panel response is 2.5ms vs 4ms, but I dont have a single issue with the native motion on JVC's vs Sony, I did look at this specifically when I actually had them stacked and focused at the very same time, The judder was identical on them both. Did you do this????

RC is good, no doubt, you will never hear me say its bad, I loved it when I had a Sony, took a while to get the same effect externally, but I finally did.

You had one JVC sample in your room? Is that the extent of your experience with them? How do you know you had a good sample? I can tell you the 9900 range had some QC issues, it was absolutely not as sharp as it should be. I sent two back in a row. They were substantially different from the year before IMO.

I actually CANNOT believe you have managed to twist the concept of a Dynamic and Controllable Iris into a negative point. Are you serious!? You dont have to use the DI, you can manually set the iris to 16fl or whatever level is recommended for your particular set up, and at the same time, increase your native contrast. For me, that's -12 on the iris to get a good relaxed level of light output in SDR, and 100k:1 native, and somewhere between -4 and -0 for HDR, 41k-50k:1.

You also twist around the very fact that you have TWO OPTIONS for displaying DCI colour space on the JVCs from factory, one without a filter (near 90% coverage on past models) and one with a filter (>99%)... Again, how is that a negative? Its giving the user options, Some people like me who are in min throw with a respectable screen size actually dont need to run full tilt in HDR, especially when using good tone mapping, the level of light loss to achieve the full spectrum of the DCI colour space might be worth it to some users, especially those with high gain screens. Personally I think it was wrong to chase higher numbers than they already had, since 99% and only about 7% light loss (which is what I literally measure on my own unit) is absolutely good enough.

Furthermore you go on about losing light in HDR, when you are comparing a 1500lm projector to an 1800lm projector!! What?? You ALREADY have no comparable light on the 270ES for HDR right out of the box, and when calibrated, Ekki states its down to about 1200lm in high lamp mode and 900 in low lamp, that's crazy low! HDR is not going to work at all on the 270ES unless you run high lamp and full tilt all day.

TP1 · October 21, 2018

1 hour ago, Javs said:

Before anything else, I am an enthusiast.

Javs, I think you have lost perspective between bring a JVC enthusiast and JVC dealer in this thread. I’ve heard it all before from dealers talking up their favourite brand which they can make most money on and making wild claims about the competition . Do you know why not one street-front dealer in WA sells JVC? According to them , it’s due to the lack of reliability, service backup and overall performance delivery from JVC. I know that thIs is not the true reason, but at least they don’t come on SNA with the hard sell.

Why not become a forum sponsor? I know SNA members (including me) give preference to buying from them.

1 hour ago, Javs said:

Furthermore you go on about losing light in HDR, when you are comparing a 1500lm projector to an 1800lm projector!! What??

As soon as you engage the dcip3 filter on N5 you will be down to 1250lm and possibly around 1000-1100 after calibration in high lamp mode. Then use your iris to try to get better contrast and the picture will be so dark it will be unwatchable, if it isn’t already,

Dynamic iris is crude in operation no matter which manufacturer does it. I am not alone on thinking this even if it goes against the over worn sales script. I can see benefits for static iris for sure, but only when you have an excess of light. That might be the case for the N5 on SD material when the bulb is new, but anything else....

Javs · October 21, 2018

57 minutes ago, Tasso said:

Javs, I think you have lost perspective between bring a JVC enthusiast and JVC dealer in this thread. I’ve heard it all before from dealers talking up their favourite brand which they can make most money on and making wild claims about the competition . Do you know why not one street-front dealer in WA sells JVC? According to them , it’s due to the lack of reliability, service backup and overall performance delivery from JVC. I know that thIs is not the true reason, but at least they don’t come on SNA with the hard sell.

Why not become a forum sponsor? I know SNA members (including me) give preference to buying from them.

We dont we leave the personalities out of the conversation? You are taking jabs at my credibility now Tasso. Pretty plain to see really. I dont come here looking for business Tasso, if business does come my way, that's great, but I surf the various forums because I am into AV, pure and simple.

Quote

As soon as you engage the dcip3 filter on N5 you will be down to 1250lm and possibly around 1000-1100 after calibration in high lamp mode. Then use your iris to try to get better contrast and the picture will be so dark it will be unwatchable, if it isn’t already,

Dynamic iris is crude in operation no matter which manufacturer does it. I am not alone on thinking this even if it goes against the over worn sales script. I can see benefits for static iris for sure, but only when you have an excess of light. That might be the case for the N5 on SD material when the bulb is new, but anything else....

To be clear, the N5 does not have a DCI filter. Only the N7 and NX9 does.

The N5 should calibrate to 1500lm. The N7 should do around 1600. With the N7 if you have a 25% filter loss (if you chose to use it at all) you would be looking at 1200 calibrated lumens with the filter. The jury is still out on what those numbers are going to accurately be, but based on the NX9 numbers, its a pretty good ballpark expectation.

Your preference for DI systems is noted, but myself, I think they are of paramount importance, any many, many others agree. So much so, that if a product does not have one, they may not consider it at all. The scales can swing both ways there. Again, I dont get why you chalk it as a negative, when its a feature which can be customised and also completely disabled. Having a static iris to set your preferred light output then switching off the DI if you are sensitive or bothered by its operation is a plus no matter how you look at it.

Tell me, you are not running your 760ES on full laser power are you? Did your calibrator come and just set up the machine for maximum brightness at all times? Iris' are a tool Tasso. Since your 760ES does not have one, the only way you can fine tune the light output of your projector is to use the laser adjustment in its place. With a bulb, you require an iris to do so. Or an ND filter. When I had my old 300ES, I needed to use an ND filter. I didn't much like 22fl SDR images. It was far too bright and uncomfortable in my room, and with the lack of an iris, I was given no choice. With an iris on a projector, you could set SDR to 16fl or HDR to 30fl and adjust the iris over time as your bulb dims and retain the same level of light output for thousands of hours potentially.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Javs

TP1 · October 21, 2018

2 minutes ago, Javs said:

We dont we leave the personalities out of the conversation? You are taking jabs at my credibility now Tasso. Pretty plain to see really. I dont come here looking for business Tasso, if business does come my way, that's great, but I surf the various forums because I am into AV, pure and simple.

i don't doubt your integrity Javs. I wouldn't be engaging with you if I did.

Javs · October 21, 2018

Just now, Tasso said:

i don't doubt your integrity Javs. I wouldn't be engaging with you if I did.

Good to know, thank you.

Serentity · October 21, 2018

Unless I missed it, has the Aust price for the new Espon 9400 Projector come out?

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SONY VPL-VW570ES test

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