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2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

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4 hours ago, Javs said:

That is what I said about 3 posts above yours. Its purely going to increase the MTF of 4K input signals right now.

Thats not correct mate and I'm surprised you said it. ANYTHING extra in the light path WILL ALWAYS reduce MTF, even the best quality clear glass lens protector reduces MTF. Upscaling does not increase MTF either, only sharpening does.

The MTF loss is not likely to be in any way significant but I definitely see this totally useless 8K E-Shift thing as a negative and pure marketing BS, I would pay extra to avoid it and would go so far as demanding JVC's service department remove the E-Shift element from light engine of any NX9 I purchased.

 

Looks like the NX7 is the model most people should buy IMHO, no way anyone will be able to see the difference between 80,000:1 contrast and 100,000:1 contrast, assuming they are accurate numbers.

With higher light output and lower native contrast these new JVC's are going to have inferior black levels compared to previous X7xxx and X9xxx models, especially the X900 from a few years back, thats not progress as far as I am concerned. Contrast is supposed to get better in new models not significantly worse.

Unless the lens in the NX7 is rubbish its not going to be an issue, its easy to correct for lens MTF loss with sharpening. 

 

I'm more interested in what the successor to the Z1 is like. If JVC can get over 100,000:1 real world measured contrast out of it I'll be interested. There is a snow flakes chance in hell Sony will get anywhere even close so they are not in the running.

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Thats not correct mate and I'm surprised you said it. ANYTHING extra in the light path WILL ALWAYS reduce MTF, even the best quality clear glass lens protector reduces MTF. Upscaling does not increase MTF either, only sharpening does.
The MTF loss is not likely to be in any way significant but I definitely see this totally useless 8K E-Shift thing as a negative and pure marketing BS, I would pay extra to avoid it and would go so far as demanding JVC's service department remove the E-Shift element from light engine of any NX9 I purchased.
 
Looks like the NX7 is the model most people should buy IMHO, no way anyone will be able to see the difference between 80,000:1 contrast and 100,000:1 contrast, assuming they are accurate numbers.
With higher light output and lower native contrast these new JVC's are going to have inferior black levels compared to previous X7xxx and X9xxx models, especially the X900 from a few years back, thats not progress as far as I am concerned. Contrast is supposed to get better in new models not significantly worse.
Unless the lens in the NX7 is rubbish its not going to be an issue, its easy to correct for lens MTF loss with sharpening. 
 
I'm more interested in what the successor to the Z1 is like. If JVC can get over 100,000:1 real world measured contrast out of it I'll be interested. There is a snow flakes chance in hell Sony will get anywhere even close so they are not in the running.


Ugh.

Whatever. I don't agree as usual.

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Do some homework on optics mate.

The Panavision videos I posted links to here recently made it very clear that even the best optical grade clear glass degrades MTF.

When it comes to passing light through an optical element there is no such thing as lossless. Upscaling to 8K will degrade MTF unless corrective sharpening is applied and sharpening is just as effective at 4K.

 

Remember ALL 4K video is already low pass filtered so that actual visible resolution is less than 3K. There is effetely zero MTF at 4K and upscaling can't do anything about that.

 

8K E-Shift is straight up marketing BS, it costs stuff all to include and JVC thinks it will suck consumers into paying a lot more money. Maybe it will for the average consumer but they are not fooling me. I want high contrast and the lowest possible black level not BS marketing. It seems JVC are unable to deliver.

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9 hours ago, Owen said:

Do some homework on optics mate.

The Panavision videos I posted links to here recently made it very clear that even the best optical grade clear glass degrades MTF.

When it comes to passing light through an optical element there is no such thing as lossless. Upscaling to 8K will degrade MTF unless corrective sharpening is applied and sharpening is just as effective at 4K.

 

Remember ALL 4K video is already low pass filtered so that actual visible resolution is less than 3K. There is effetely zero MTF at 4K and upscaling can't do anything about that.

 

8K E-Shift is straight up marketing BS, it costs stuff all to include and JVC thinks it will suck consumers into paying a lot more money. Maybe it will for the average consumer but they are not fooling me. I want high contrast and the lowest possible black level not BS marketing. It seems JVC are unable to deliver.

I suppose Chief Engineer for JVC Rod Sterling is wrong then?

 

You are talking only about optical MTF when I am talking about SYSTEM MTF.

 

Eshift increases MTF beyond that of the displays native response. It pushes the Nyquist freq higher rather than falling off a cliff.

 

 

 

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Edited by Javs

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I see US pricing to be announced at Cedia, wonder when AU pricing will be announced on these :)

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2 hours ago, Javs said:

Eshift increases MTF beyond that of the displays native response. It pushes the Nyquist freq higher rather than falling off a cliff.

I guess it is relevant to discuss this rather technical topic, at least a little, in this thread!

 

A related practical question (which has arisen in the past) would be:

Question A. What benefit [if any] does pixel shift give when feeding a native 2K* projector with a 2K source?

 

I note that that is a different question to:

Question B. What benefit does pixel shift give when feeding a native 2K projector with a 4K** source?

 

 

 

_____

* I'm using 2K to refer to Full HD resolution, i.e. a pixel grid format of 1920 x 1080, e.g. from a Full HD Blu-ray disc.

 

** I'm using 4K to refer to a pixel grid format of 3840 x 2160, e.g. from a UHD Blu-ray disc.

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I guess it is relevant to discuss this rather technical topic, at least a little, in this thread!
 
A related practical question (which has arisen in the past) would be:
Question A. What benefit [if any] does pixel shift give when feeding a native 2K* projector with a 2K source?
 
I note that that is a different question to:
Question B. What benefit does pixel shift give when feeding a native 2K projector with a 4K** source?
 
 
 
_____
* I'm using 2K to refer to Full HD resolution, i.e. a pixel grid format of 1920 x 1080, e.g. from a Full HD Blu-ray disc.
 
** I'm using 4K to refer to a pixel grid format of 3840 x 2160, e.g. from a UHD Blu-ray disc.
Regarding 1080p, I sit close enough at about 2.9m to actually see pixels and effectively aliasing from the chair unless eshift is on, in which case the aliasing is fixed and the pixels no longer visible. Everything is smoother.

When fed 4k, obviously there is literally more information there which previously wasn't and we know that is a different thing to discuss.

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There is way more difference between the JVC Z1 and N9  than just the lamp.  Around 20kg of electronics in fact.  Having said that, the N9 with a laser engine would have been ideal  I think. I would take that any day over the ability to do faux 8k by wobbling the 4K panels

Yes but those inky blacks may well be the tip of the scale.

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Just now, poppybob said:


Yes but those inky blacks may well be the tip of the scale.

 Z1 will probably still outdo the NX9 in that area anyway.   The difference  between decent projectors  of good contrast is far smaller and less noticeable  real life than people think. When you have to have projectors side by side  and continually switch between them to determine which has the best contrast,  it is a safe bet that the best overall image will be based upon other considerations as well.    In the past it was difficult to have an objective discussion on the subject because it was invariably  a Sony vs JVC thing,  but with the high contrast  2k E-shift panels finally being retired by JVC, I think  people will see the benefits that the new  4K panels can bring, even if there is  a slight (  and  barely perceptible) drop in contrast. 

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we have a couple of posts from the JVC room at IFA, this one from Ran on avs,

 

Quote

Here goes guys,

So I attended 2 different JVC Demo's this afternoon. At the end of the second one, I was able to persuade one of the guys there to put some of our own stuff (Nigel and I).

Before we get to my impressions, I had a few minutes with one of their tech guys and managed to get some answers to some of the questions I had. Some questions remained unanswered, as they wouldn't give a straight, or any answer to the question asked.

In NO particular order:

1. Ansi Contrast has been improved and is now similar to the 4500.

2. The lens on the 5+7 are the same as last years lens.

3. Updates will be done via the USB port.

4. A completely new Light engine.

5. Iris is the same as last years, BUT the N9 will have a brand new Iris system.

6. Sync times will be cut in half.

7. Streaking is a thing of the past (hopefully of course…)

8. Light loss with the filter will be less (not sure how much less) than last year.

9. New and improved calibration software will be out shortly, NO support for new sensors.

10. Bright Corners (my absolute nightmare) is a well known issue, which currently can NOT be solved under current conditions and pricing. Asked about this "picking the best parts stuff" (which is a thing of the past now, but still made me wonder...) and they said it has nothing to do or no effect on bright corners what so ever, just lens and better contrast.


As for the Demo.


The N9 was the only projector running. 

The showed a bunch of nature stuff which of course I'm not familiar with. The Iris was on Manual, because the Dynamic Iris is still a work in progress. 

The screen was a Stewart 1.3 gain, 3.8M width, which made things quite difficult for me to evaluate as I have the HP (1.7 Gain effectively) screen with 3M width, so this can be a little tricky.


Brightness was Ok but I couldn't say it was great, there was A LOT of mosquito noise which would not go away, even when we turned the E.Shift Off. 

I saw some serious Banding during the demo, in fact 3-4 times during this 20 minutes demo.

Sharpness was very good and there was a lot of detail which was quite remarkable. 
Contrast looked fine as well, I can't say, coming from a X9500,that I was aware of any problems with the contrast.

We then switched to parts of Pacific Rim 2, which I'm not familiar with it so I have no reference. Having said that I think the picture was very good , a lot of detail , very sharp and nice contrast, Brightness seemed OK, but not something that made me think it was more than enough. Motion was fine, but it did not seem any different from what I'm used to.

After the public Demo was over I was given the opportunity to watch Skyfall at 1080P which I know better than anyone who has ever worked on the film..smile.gif

I had a close look at the balcony scene (where Bond is given a shave..) and it looked very good in terms of sharpness, brightness and contrast, though I did see this kind of mosquito noise which I'm not familiar with on my unit.

As mentioned, the screen was much bigger than my own, so comparing to the picture I see at home is quite difficult, but I came out thinking that this looked very good, but not necessarily much better than mine. 

I was meaning to test some 4K footage but we where out of time and I let Nigel put on some test patterns so we can further evaluate things. I'll let him say a few words about that, but it was surely impressive.

In summery, coming from the X9500, I think that the N7 will be quite risky in terms of contrast and perhaps it might become an issue.

The N9 seems to be the obvious choice for a true upgrade but price wise and the fact that this is not a 2.1 chip (No idea of any upgrade path) this will be too risky to purchase one with out viewing a production unit first.

So, I'm on hold right now until I get to test out (or someone I trust) a production unit and evaluate how much of an upgrade this thing really is.


Ran

 

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and this from arrow-av

Quote


My two cents:

UPDATE FROM IFA 2018:

Hi everyone,

JVC had the JVC DLA-NX9 on demo only. As we all know, this is a preproduction unit, so this needs to be borne in mind.

We were not able to obtain answers to everyones questions, but we were unable to obtain the answers to some of them, which I will come onto in a second. Further to this JVC were reluctant to allow us to put on our own video content, but the good news is that we managed to persuade JVC to allow us to put one or two items of our own content on.

The dynamic contrast functionality was/is not working properly so the demos at IFA 2018 have been with it turned off and so the projected image relates to native ON/OFF contrast performance only, without any dynamic contrast functionality. 

There was also noticeable posterization however I was assured that this will not be present with the production units.

Furthermore, the unit was uncalibrated and the settings not optimized. 

Also, the focus had been set imperfectly, which became apparent when I put on some test patterns.

**HOWEVER** in spite of all of this, subjectively speaking my first impressions of the JVC DLA-NX9 are that the image projected looks very good indeed; and I have no doubt whatsoever that with respect to the actual production units with proper launch firmware and with the projector setup properly and calibrated, this projector is going to look nothing short of absolutely incredible. In short, I have been absolutely blown away by its performance.

Also, as a point of interest, the manual mechanical iris was closed down to -3. The screen size was circa 3.5m wide and was using Stewart Filmscreen 1.3 gain screen material.

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AS PER FOLLOWS (sorry if there is some repetition with respect to Ran's answers!):

 Native on/off for all models with the iris fully open? Even if only a rough idea compared to the specs, which presumably are for iris fully closed?

We were unable to take measurements and JVC were not agreeable to confirming this yet

 Autocal support confirmation, and for which meters?

Yes and the same meters (Spyder); however, the Autocal is reportedly improved

 Is the lens on the N5/N7 the same lens as on the current models?

Yes

 Is their new tone mapping based on static HDR metadata, or are they doing real-time processing to calculate each frame’s peak brightness to emulate HDR10+ (similar to what MadVR does [EDIT:apparently, the UB820 only processes HDR10 static metadata])

Yes it is indeed based on static HDR metadata, similar to how the new Panasonic UB820 and UB9000 Blu-Ray players operate. 

Furthermore, a rather neat feature, it tells you what is the media’s static HDR metadata (Max CLL and Max FALL). See this photo that I took which shows this:

20180831_121006-X2.jpg

 ANSI contrast

According to JVC but not yet definitely confirmed via independent measurements the ANSI contrast performance is increased by circa 50%. Unsure at the present time whether this extends to both of the N5 and N7 further to the NX9.

 Does the dynamic iris close further than on the current models (i.e. any improvement to fade to black)? 

No. It’s the same.

 There are “up to” 10 installation memories that hold lens memory, pixel correction, masking etc all together, which sounds great, but how many of these for each model

With respect to the NX9 it’s 10. Unsure at the present time whether this includes the N5 and N7 as well, but I expect that it does.

 Is the HDMI sync time improved compared to the current models

Yes. It’s been HALVED

 Can you confirm the +/- 100% V and +/- 47% H lens shift reported by some sources?

Confirmed

 What is the lumen loss with DCI P3 filter in place?

According to JVC “it is less”

JVC were unwilling or unable to divulge more details that the fact it is less. So someone will simply have to measure it, which I will be doing myself, as and when I receive delivery of my units

 Is there additional video noise when eShift is turned on

No. There is absolutely zero additional video noise when eShift is turned on.

 Bright corners

The same. No improvement.

 Is the iris on the NX9 the same or new?

It is a completely new iris.

 How has JVC managed to increase the native ON/OFF contrast with native 4K so much?

JVC are understandably and as expected unwilling to say how they have done it; however, they have confirmed that it’s an entirely new optical block and chipset.

 Will JVC be releasing sometime next year a ‘big brother’ to the NX9 and/or replacement for the JVC RS4500/Z1 that’s essentially an NX9 with laser light source and higher peak lumens light output?

Would not confirm or deny. 

 When will the production units for the projectors be available / ship ?

End of October.

 Impressions of lens performance and/or ability to resolve native 4K content at the pixel level

Despite all of the various pre-production related issues, and despite being 'out-of-the-box' uncalibrated, the NX9 completely aced both torture tests that I carried out. Firstly, it PERFECTLY resolved the Masciola single pixel native 4K test pattern off the HDR10 Test Pattern Suite, with perfect uniformity:

(N.B. I apologize for the quality of these photos - I was only able to take these using my phone not my 'proper' camera - there was in reality no moire in the projected image. That is a limitation of the photos)

1%20pixel%20checkerboard-L.jpg

20180831_153807.jpg

Secondly, it completed nailed the Quick Brown Fox test pattern, with perfect sharpness (aside from the projector having been set out of focus slightly) and perfect focus uniformity right across the whole image. The RGB convergence was also very good indeed all things considered; and the image was devoid of any and all streaking / ghosting / smearing, comprising an exceptionally clean and razor sharp image, even when viewed at extremely close proximity of less than 1 metre away, with superb contrast and dynamic range:

quick%20brown%20fox-L.jpg

My conclusion from my first experience of the JVC DLA-NX9 is that JVC has hit a home run with this projector; and potentially with respect to the whole new projector range. Personally, I cannot wait to lay hands on the production units and carry out my evaluations and complete my in-depth review of the range, including comprehensive measurements, scientific analysis, and direct comparisons; which will be published shortly thereafter smile.gif

 

 

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we couldnt have more contrasting posts I'd suggest, Ran seems quite cautious and aprehensive, particularly the hdmi 2.1 aspect (which is probably relevant to the n9 wiht its 8k but not relevant to the lower models) some noise and banding (posterisation?) is not encouraging. not sure related to the 8k eshift or something else. pity they were not demoing the new iris on the n9 as its completely new vs the other and older models,

 

its very interesting to hear on completely new light engines on all models. halving of synch times and usb updates, new autocal software to come are all welcome. interesting streaking is a thing of the past and light loss is less.

 

arrow-av on other hand with his post is doing the loop the loop it seems. i have lot of respect for the guy, he has posted some very telling photos. 

 

one thing it tells me is this move to removing e-shift is more about removing the processing(splitting halving and recombining with the shift) in between than native 4k as such, since this projector is doing better than the 760es with those patterns by all accounts. 

 

arrow-av also reminded there are no prices published as yet, so any prices quoted are not official. 

 

another video from ifa here, and my tourist german isnt helping much with it though :D 

 

 

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I am still curious on the auto tone mapping,

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2449346&stc=

 

with this menu screen cropped out, do we have as yet an understanding how it works ? 

 

I presume the Gamma Max CLL/Max all is data coming through from source material ? 

 

what is the rest of stuff ? obviously some selectable Gamma ? 

 

Correction value ? 

auto tone mapping on / off 

 

mapping level ? 

 

colour selection ? 

and rest ? do we play with those per title or something :D  or we use RM files to set forget ? 

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7 hours ago, Javs said:

Regarding 1080p, I sit close enough at about 2.9m to actually see pixels and effectively aliasing from the chair unless eshift is on, in which case the aliasing is fixed and the pixels no longer visible. Everything is smoother.

When fed 4k, obviously there is literally more information there which previously wasn't and we know that is a different thing to discuss.

Yes, if feeding an 8K source to a native 4K projector, it would not be hard to argue that pixel shifting would be a benefit. That would indeed be a different thing to discuss.

If feeding a 4K source to a 4K projector, the benefits of pixel shifting (to simulate a projector with more than 4K resolution) would be more subtle. One issue is whether there is a visible screen door effect before implementing pixel shifting.  I have seen SDE in public cinemas when sitting a few rows back from the front, where the projector was a 2K device. I'm not sure I'd notice it with a native 4K projector [in native mode].

Theoretically, having more pixel density in a display device than the source resolution should allow processing of the source to be a little more aggressive for enhancing the visibility of edges or small details in the content, without the final result looking too exaggerated.  However just how beneficial,* in practice, that will be when viewing a UHD Blu-ray in the home, on a large screen viewed "up close and personal", using a native 4K projector with pixel shifting  activated,  is something that we will probably see lots of comments on, going into the future.

 

_______
* Related to concerns about the "director's intent", there is the question whether image-sharpening although possible to do from a technical viewpoint, and "beneficial" for those seeking a picture with greater punch, ought to be performed if it creates an artificial result that looks sharper than (and thus different to) the source.

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25 minutes ago, :) al said:

I am still curious on the auto tone mapping,

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2449346&stc=

 

with this menu screen cropped out, do we have as yet an understanding how it works ? 

 

I presume the Gamma Max CLL/Max all is data coming through from source material ? 

 

what is the rest of stuff ? obviously some selectable Gamma ? 

 

Correction value ? 

auto tone mapping on / off 

 

mapping level ? 

 

colour selection ? 

and rest ? do we play with those per title or something :D  or we use RM files to set forget ? 

Correct. It looks like this is based only on Static metadata.

 

The mapping level looks to be a global adjustment for globally toning down or increasing the aggressiveness of the tone mapping. For either light starved or excess light setups. It would be great if JVC were to give a numerical nits level to the settings there though, or at least some translation of it. But that would rely on people knowing how to measure peak light output.

 

Correction value has always been there, its for custom gamma curves, or selecting a specific gamma value for SDR. Its not now.

 

Colour Selection has also always been there.

If Auto is on, you wont need to touch a thing, as you can see, its all greyed out except Mapping Level.

 

Nigel (Arrow) sent me a larger snippet of that test pattern we like to use to test projector focus, he was saying the Oppo they were using was bugging out in that there is a bit of a bug with it displaying PNG images properly, he knew how to fix it but was not allowed to touch the remote, I can share this larger snippet of the quick brown fox test though.

 

What is evident here is uniformity appears to be essentially perfect, complete lack of convergence errors or streaking in the text.

 

Z1v5Uef.jpg

 

We also have proper rendition of the 4K single pixel test patterns - Taken with a phone camera, apparently focus was a couple clicks off too, so this will be even better in person on a properly focuses lens. The funny thing is this is already better than I have seen Sony do. Again, convergence seems to be pretty phenomenal here given how close up this is..

 

R50wxUU.jpg

 

QoYlrkn.jpg

Edited by Javs

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8 minutes ago, MLXXX said:

Yes, if feeding an 8K source to a native 4K projector, it would not be hard to argue that pixel shifting would be a benefit. That would indeed be a different thing to discuss.

If feeding a 4K source to a 4K projector, the benefits of pixel shifting (to simulate a projector with more than 4K resolution) would be more subtle. One issue is whether there is a visible screen door effect before implementing pixel shifting.  I have seen SDE in public cinemas when sitting a few rows back from the front, where the projector was a 2K device. I'm not sure I'd notice it with a native 4K projector [in native mode].

Theoretically, having more pixel density in a display device than the source resolution should allow processing of the source to be a little more aggressive for enhancing the visibility of edges or small details in the content, without the final result looking too exaggerated.  However just how beneficial,* in practice, that will be when viewing a UHD Blu-ray in the home, on a large screen viewed "up close and personal", using a native 4K projector with pixel shifting  activated,  is something that we will probably see lots of comments on, going into the future.

 

_______
* Related to concerns about the "director's intent", there is the question whether image-sharpening although possible to do from a technical viewpoint, and "beneficial" for those seeking a picture with greater punch, ought to be performed if it creates an artificial result that looks sharper than (and thus different to) the source.

I agree. I have said previously I would likely just turn this off and not use it honestly, unless I felt it did something from the chair.

 

At my viewing distance it would be completely impossible to make out the 4K pixel grid. Only superman could see that. But eshift may make the image generally smoother and more filmic/fluid, less 'display' like, we will see.

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1 hour ago, :) al said:

we couldnt have more contrasting posts I'd suggest, Ran seems quite cautious and aprehensive, particularly the hdmi 2.1 aspect (which is probably relevant to the n9 wiht its 8k but not relevant to the lower models) some noise and banding (posterisation?) is not encouraging. not sure related to the 8k eshift or something else. pity they were not demoing the new iris on the n9 as its completely new vs the other and older models,

 

its very interesting to hear on completely new light engines on all models. halving of synch times and usb updates, new autocal software to come are all welcome. interesting streaking is a thing of the past and light loss is less.

 

arrow-av on other hand with his post is doing the loop the loop it seems. i have lot of respect for the guy, he has posted some very telling photos. 

 

one thing it tells me is this move to removing e-shift is more about removing the processing(splitting halving and recombining with the shift) in between than native 4k as such, since this projector is doing better than the 760es with those patterns by all accounts. 

 

arrow-av also reminded there are no prices published as yet, so any prices quoted are not official. 

 

another video from ifa here, and my tourist german isnt helping much with it though :D 

 

 

Let's hope the autocal HAS THE FRIGGIN METER POINTING AT THE SCREEN THIS TIME...

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18 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

Let's hope the autocal HAS THE FRIGGIN METER POINTING AT THE SCREEN THIS TIME...

It’s to calibrate the projector and suspect always will be. I can tell you it is FRIGGIN good ! :D for what it does at extreme low cost it is :)

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Looks like the jvc’s lens shift is the same as current x series. However the throw seems to be different? Ie new models require you to mount the projector further back for the same screen size compared to current x series?

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1 hour ago, Javs said:

The mapping level looks to be a global adjustment for globally toning down or increasing the aggressiveness of the tone mapping. For either light starved or excess light setups. It would be great if JVC were to give a numerical nits level to the settings there though, or at least some translation of it. But that would rely on people knowing how to measure peak light output.

Thanks javs for explaining, yes ... I do do so so wish they’d allow a numerical nits level as setup for display. or otherwise nominate a target ? Measuring light output is not a big ask !

 

i haven’t used the Pana 820 I believe allows this in the settings I think to set display nits ?

 

really I believe this stuff belongs in display so great to see jvc implementing ... it shouldn’t be upto player makers, they should be expected to just output what’s just on disc 

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42 minutes ago, k3nnis888 said:

Looks like the jvc’s lens shift is the same as current x series. However the throw seems to be different? Ie new models require you to mount the projector further back for the same screen size compared to current x series?

I haven’t seen zoom or shift spec, are you looking at the table they posted ?

 

suprised no link to website or flyers on the units yet. Sony though premature ... a bit more organised in this regard

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22 minutes ago, :) al said:

I haven’t seen zoom or shift spec, are you looking at the table they posted ?

 

suprised no link to website or flyers on the units yet. Sony though premature ... a bit more organised in this regard

Yes the table on page 4. Looks like at 110” which is what I have with the x35 is around 3300mm throw by with the newer jvc is more

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14 hours ago, Javs said:

You are talking only about optical MTF when I am talking about SYSTEM MTF.

 

Eshift increases MTF beyond that of the displays native response. It pushes the Nyquist freq higher rather than falling off a cliff.

Yes, we are discussing two different issues. Placing the E-Shift eliment in the optical path will lower MTF at all spatial frequencies and will degrade ANSI contrast some what due to added reflections in the optical system. I'm not suggesting the degradation is significant but it is unavoidable. On the plus side E-Shift allows the optical system to reproduce spatial frequencies well beyond what the imaging chips can provide natively, which is great IF we have a video input that needs it.

 

Unless the fill factor of the 4K imaging chips has taken a hit compared to the 2K units one would expect that visible pixel structure will be a non issue without E-Shift, and since the new models don't support 8K video input, nor is any 8K video likely to even be available in the life of the projector, it seems an unnecessary addition thats marketing driven.

The MTF of spatial frequencies up to 4K will not be improved by 8K E-Shift, in fact the opposite is the case all else being equal.

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3 hours ago, Mobe1969 said:

Let's hope the autocal HAS THE FRIGGIN METER POINTING AT THE SCREEN THIS TIME...

The problem with taking the measurements off the screen is it requires a VERY expensive super light sensitive colour meter, something like the Klein K10-A that has a RRP of $6900 US, or more than $10K AU.

Edited by Owen

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