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betty boop

2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

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On 01/07/2019 at 1:40 PM, oztheatre said:

Owen, as you've said many times on here, you basically need to double the native contrast numbers to see any visible difference on screen. The N series have taken perhaps a quarter of a hit in contrast to the previous X series machines, so is it even visible? Whatever the reduction is, it's not half is it? They're still great. Always been the best at black level.. so there isn't much choice left if black level is your main concern.

 

Arrow AV in the UK did a screen shot of interstellar from the new christie machine with 22 million to 1 native, supposedly, and did the mouse roll over thing against the JVC X9500 that Javs has, and I'd be buggered if I could see any major difference. I suspect the PC monitor is probably not helping but you'd think the difference was night and day (22 million vs 80K is 275,000% increase). You'd love that new christie but at 500K USD it's too much for us convicts.

Yeah those shots are hard, I had trouble photographing it fairly to show how low the BenQ contrast was to my JVC, the problem with those photographs is the camera only has so much dynamic range, so when  you capture the black floor its so close to the real black floor of the camera, then comparing something with worse contrast looks heaps worse. I could not photograph the dynamic 400k:1 contrast on my JVC vs the BenQ. If I did it fairly, which is to say I DON'T clip the black in the camera, it looks like this!

 

AND THIS WAS WITH AN ND FILTER ON THE BENQ.

 



JVC

vrznIBT.jpg

 

BenQ Dynamic

JWD1qsj.jpg

 

BenQ Native.

oOTRgPd.jpg

 

If I dont use Dynamic on the JVC, then the comparison looks more fair... Because then the difference is only 10x not 100x. LOL but that's handicapping the JVC twice, once, not using Dynamic Iris, and two, using an ND Filter to lower the black floor of the BenQ by HALF.

 

JVC

uPn4bs3.jpg

 

BenQ

AdlreJE.jpg

 

I think its safe to say Arrows images cant begin to capture what that Christie is doing, if you note when he posted that, I cam back asking why the RGB values in his photos equalled 0/0/0 on the black areas, that means he was actually clipping the black floor when he took the photo. I could do that to the BenQ and make it look the same. Thats why only comparative photos taken at the same time, same camera, same settings are the only way to show a comparative difference.

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some interesting comparitive notes 3D on 2019 projectors ... from the 3D king zombie over on avs....

 

:"The new JVC's have same ghosting performance as the e-shift models which is excellent for a non-DLP projector (DLP's with active shutter glasses are flawless for x-talk). The caveat with the JVC's (native + e-shift) is that the 3D is 96hz or 48hz per eye. below the typical 60hz per eye threshold for not seeing slight flicker. 

On the flip side - the Epson LCD's can have some noticeable ghosting depending on the title but they run at 120hz or 60hz per eye for a more calm appearing 3D image.

personally i'm more affected by crosstalk than the slight refresh flicker and prefer the JVC's for 3D vs the Epson.

If you like 3D in the cinema, either of these HT projector choices will be a better experience than the typical Real 3D theater viewing. Circular polarized 3D glasses can induce ghosting at the slightest head tilt and the contrast on those 3D projectors is terrible. Our viewing of Avengers End game was ruined by a Real 3D projector. Any non-bright scene had a low contrast grey haze over the entire image. Infinity War 3D BD looks amazing on the JVC and looking forward to End Game to be released later in the summer in 3D Bluray."

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Hopefully some interesting releases at IFA 2019, possibly referring to more than just the EF-100.

 

Translation from 

https://www.epson.de/insights/article/ifa-2019-epson-neuheiten-bei-druck-und-projektion

 

Epson projection:

At the IFA, Epson will present a new laser projector for the demanding home theater, demonstrating in an impressive presentation the quality of a high-quality 3LCD panel with a long-lasting laser light source.

Epson also impressively demonstrates the versatility of the recently introduced EF-100W / B laser projector, which demonstrates its high-quality projection in different orientations (vertically down, horizontally, vertically upwards). The devices were designed as the first portable laser projectors for private users and are intuitive and easy to use. The EF-100W / B are currently the smallest 3LCD laser projectors on the market. So they measure at the longest point of the housing only 23 cm. The proven projectors of the EH-TW series for cinema and other applications will also be on display at the Epson booth either in a live presentation or a presentation.

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seems like there is something coming

 

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/22/08/2019/ifa-2019-nouveaux-projecteurs-laser-home-cinema-epson/

 

visitors to the Epson booth will once again be able to benefit from a large number of innovations. In addition to the compact and elegant laser projectors of the EF-100 series, a new series of projectors with laser light source for use in demanding projection environments will also be presented at IFA 2019. A selection of proven Epson projection solutions for home theater and the game will be available on the Epson booth to demonstrate their qualities.

 

The big question will be whether Epson do a laser version of the fauxK TW9400 or bring in a native 4K model?

 

Hopefully it has more lumens than the LS10500 did

 

 

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On 23/08/2019 at 1:34 PM, Mozitron said:

The Epson LS10500 has now been relegated to the back catalogue on the Epson Australia site

 

https://www.epson.com.au/products/projector/EH-LS10500.asp

It sold poorly, why the epson rep told me they have no interest in a new native 4k machine and go with what sells instead. I hope he's wrong though. A native 4K laser with decent brightness and black levels would be a welcome competitor at the right price.

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An old thread but probably needs re booting, suspect with what’s happening be no more 2020 projectors

 

so what in round up is worth considering to pass time in impending isolation ? And how do they stack up ?

 

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Projector-Resolution-Shootout-Part-2.htm

 

a good wrap above in a resolution shoot out !

 

how they panned out ...
1. jvc n7

2. BenQ HT9060

3.Optoma UHD60

4.  Epson HC5050UBe (9400)

5. JVC DLA-x790

6. ViewSonic X10-4
 

with observations, 

“Perhaps one observation we can make is that a projector like the JVC DLA-NX7, with its trio of true native 4K chips, a good lens, and high native contrast, gives the best chance of delivering the most measurable detail to the screen compared with any pixel-shifting projector. But the two-phase pixel-shifting associated with TI's 0.66-inch DLP also appeared very capable of delivering something close to the full on-screen resolution of a UHD signal if embedded in a projector with good optics and even mediocre contrast, as we saw in the BenQ HT9060.”

 

“Another observation our test reinforced is that pixel resolution is only one component of image quality that helps to define how much detail we perceive on the screen. As mentioned in Part 1, much of the differences we saw up close in the magnified test target were not easily detected at normal viewing distance, and in the Mantis photo, the variations in color balance and dimensionality resulting from differences in contrast were much more obvious from across the room. Contrast definitely plays a big role in helping to improve our perception of sharpness and detail, as well as font readability. Despite their inability to produce the finest lines in the target, both the JVC DLA-X790 and Epson HC5050UBe got very high marks for their overall image quality on real content, with the Epson's wide color gamut also a plus. Similarly, although the BenQ HT9060 produced the highest resolution (and luminance) of any of the DLP pixel-shifters, with high color accuracy in the Rec.709 space, its lower contrast allowed the Optoma UHD60—a projector with the same 0.66-inch chip that costs a fifth of its price—to give the Benq a real challenge in perceived sharpness at normal viewing distances. That is the key takeaway for any discussion about 4K resolution: it's not just about pixels.“


good they have had a balanced look at this and considered pixels -> resolution not be all, and interesting the key factor contrast plays. And for that reason I know apart from n7 that has things well covered with native 4k, good lens and contrast, in others I’d still go epson or previous gen jvc in the shifters in pure picture quality terms :)

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and taking into consideration price for each pj its a logical choice.

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happy to take 4th position on my projector purchase. Budget only allows so much

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On 21/03/2020 at 7:05 AM, betty boop said:

 

how they panned out ...
1. jvc n7

2. BenQ HT9060

3.Optoma UHD60

4.  Epson HC5050UBe (9400)

5. JVC DLA-x790

6. ViewSonic X10-4
 

 

FYI, the 5050 is the 8400 equivalent, the 6050 is 9400 equivalent 

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2 minutes ago, Johnny_Boy said:

FYI, the 5050 is the 8400 equivalent, the 6050 is 9400 equivalent 

fair enough though with regards their base tech really pretty comparable for this purpose (resolution comparisons) that said in au given the relatively  small price difference between 8400 and 9400 id go the 9400 :) 

https://www.epson.com.au/news/press_releases_details.asp?ID=1238&Year=2019

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1 hour ago, betty boop said:

fair enough though with regards their base tech really pretty comparable for this purpose (resolution comparisons) that said in au given the relatively  small price difference between 8400 and 9400 id go the 9400 :) 

https://www.epson.com.au/news/press_releases_details.asp?ID=1238&Year=2019

Oh i agree there is not much difference between the two. Just correcting the information so people are not confused 

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6 hours ago, Johnny_Boy said:

Oh i agree there is not much difference between the two. Just correcting the information so people are not confused 

There were some AVS members saying the 9400 had a better quality lens than the 8400. Someone had apparently had the conversation with an Epson engineer at cedia last year and he had said just that. I know my 9400 lens is superb, better than projectors I've had here costing 2 to 4 times more. Good optics are paramount.

 

The 8400 is the 'harvey norman' retail model. white. shorter warranty.

9400 is the custom integrator model. black. longer warranty.

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9 hours ago, oztheatre said:

There were some AVS members saying the 9400 had a better quality lens than the 8400. Someone had apparently had the conversation with an Epson engineer at cedia last year and he had said just that. I know my 9400 lens is superb, better than projectors I've had here costing 2 to 4 times more. Good optics are paramount.

 

The 8400 is the 'harvey norman' retail model. white. shorter warranty.

9400 is the custom integrator model. black. longer warranty.

theyve always had the 8 series 9 series with both have always used the same fuji lens that am aware. Though frankly for even the warranty difference and the generous warranty epson has always done on the 9400 and including lamp is why id go for the 9400. and pony up the difference ! 

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2 hours ago, betty boop said:

theyve always had the 8 series 9 series with both have always used the same fuji lens that am aware. Though frankly for even the warranty difference and the generous warranty epson has always done on the 9400 and including lamp is why id go for the 9400. and pony up the difference ! 

That is right Al, but from what I've gathered, they have a QA on these lenses and the 9400 gets the ones that pass. Though I can see why they're not advertising this as it would deter 8400 sales in some way.. my guess anyway as to why.

 

The 9400 lens is superb with only the BenQ 970 and 990 being a little better again due to 1. excellent optics and 2. no convergence muddying the image. So they're done well for a 3 chip machine at a quarter of the price of those BenQ models. My X7500 had a stellar lens also, 7900 not so much. 

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1 hour ago, oztheatre said:

That is right Al, but from what I've gathered, they have a QA on these lenses and the 9400 gets the ones that pass. Though I can see why they're not advertising this as it would deter 8400 sales in some way.. my guess anyway as to why.

all the more reason to not buy the 8400 if its getting the lenses that dont pass :D 

 

truly though i have helped couple off folk now with 9400 and its a good buy at the moment. you can get better i believe in the jvcs but they are quite a bit more in price though not sure with epson upping their price and jvc having realigned their n5 price where they end up... anyways good the choice there is .

 

re the DLPs am not so sure have come through testing above that well, and thats without rainbows thrown in the mix which is my main problem wiht current DLPs which for some reason seem to have rainbows more prevalent when I thought by now they were something of the past. 

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Well, "pass" 😇 might mean passes the threshold for use on a 9400, nothing more sinister to be read in it about 8400 lenses, which still could (and almost certainly would) pass the required performance and quality standard.

 

Pity it's only a rumour, though.

 

Regards

Grant

 

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