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betty boop

2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

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I pop in once a week or so to read the latest projector model news and by default usually end up reading about the many issues with the new N series JVC’s and I have to say a lot of the reporting is quite disheartening in how many issues there are and or how ordinary the picture quality is of the latest Sony’s. 

 

Al commented something along the lines in a earlier post that watched in isolation without comparisons many projectors look pretty good. The old saying ignorance is bliss springs to mind and I don’t mind admitting that we are very blissful in our isolated ignorance with the X9900 that was purchased late last year. 

I am not saying I’ll never buy another new projector but chances are I will try and stay in my isolated state of ignorant bliss for as long as I can.

 

cheers Terry

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3 hours ago, TerryO said:

I pop in once a week or so to read the latest projector model news and by default usually end up reading about the many issues with the new N series JVC’s and I have to say a lot of the reporting is quite disheartening in how many issues there are and or how ordinary the picture quality is of the latest Sony’s. 

 

Al commented something along the lines in a earlier post that watched in isolation without comparisons many projectors look pretty good. The old saying ignorance is bliss springs to mind and I don’t mind admitting that we are very blissful in our isolated ignorance with the X9900 that was purchased late last year. 

I am not saying I’ll never buy another new projector but chances are I will try and stay in my isolated state of ignorant bliss for as long as I can.

 

cheers Terry

Terry what you have is a very good thing. I do at times as well wonder why bother ! and I have had a few projectors over years where sitting there thinking gee how can it get any better than this ? and then suprised pleasantly when updating to see further gains. and gains readily apparent ie slap you in face stuff not as in gee if I squint I might see a difference kind of thing or anything. :Dso  am under no dissolutions that can't hold back pace of progress and these things do indeed keep progressing at a fast pace of knots. 

 

all that said like you its very disheartening to read the issues that exist. though am not sure just limited to new range. As per oz's post below a great part I believe is purely down to our courier system in this country (though appears this problem exists else where too) these projectors have got to point of being quite a bit on the large and heavy side and quite simply more susceptible to being dropped and man handled and such now.... and these are expensive things. we are talking sonys and jvcs past the $10k mark. a 760 sony is a $20k machine !

 

"Half the problems we're seeing could be attributed to the shonky couriers. They basically come to a skidding stop at my factory and I just cringe hoping it's not a PJ they're delivering. Then when it is a PJ I'm like 'oh let me grab that for you' lol. How would we ever know? They don't care, it's just a box to a courier.

I've had 2 Sony 760's both damaged, one wouldn't even fire up, box handles ripped. The lights on it suggested it was 'dropped' in the manual. 
2 Sony 570's, one was terrible, the other 'acceptable'
2 N7 JVCs the 2nd one with a red line all the way down the screen with or without a signal."

 

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according to arrow its sonys "undefeatable processing" 

 

"As far as Sony SXRD home theater projectors are concerned this sort of phenomenon is completely normal and to be expected. In short, for whatever reasons, they have a problem delineating native 4K test patterns properly. 

However, Sony claims that this sort of phenomenon does not affect actual video content. 

Either way, the JVC RS1000/N5 performs significantly better as compared with the SONY 295/270ES with respect to properly resolving the native 4K test patterns. So, as far as native 4K test patterns performance is concerned the JVC wins. 

**BUT** it is important to properly assess comparative performance of actual video content in addition to this, which I will be doing very shortly smile.gif

For interest, here are the uncropped photos of the whole screen:

SONY 295/270ES:

1C%20-%20MASCIOLA%20SINGLE%20PIXEL%204K%



JVC RS1000/N5:

1A%20-%20MASCIOLA%20SINGLE%20PIXEL%204K%

 

"Nope smile.gif

That is with item 21 in the Service Menu turned OFF. It's a lot worse with it turned on

You can sometimes improve things more by additionally toggling Item 2 within the service menu, which selects a different uniformity preset, but in this particular instance it just moves the grunge around to a different location on the screen; and Item 15 (with the models that have this) which switches to a different White Balance preset, can also help to clean up the image, however this last one necessitates calibrating the projector and you lose all presets except those that use D65 white point. 

However, Sony says this does not affect actual video content smile.gif

Either way, the fact of the matter is that the Sony projectors all have undefeatable video processing going on all of the time"

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, betty boop said:

 

according to arrow its sonys "undefeatable processing" 

 

"As far as Sony SXRD home theater projectors are concerned this sort of phenomenon is completely normal and to be expected. In short, for whatever reasons, they have a problem delineating native 4K test patterns properly. 

However, Sony claims that this sort of phenomenon does not affect actual video content. 

Either way, the JVC RS1000/N5 performs significantly better as compared with the SONY 295/270ES with respect to properly resolving the native 4K test patterns. So, as far as native 4K test patterns performance is concerned the JVC wins. 

**BUT** it is important to properly assess comparative performance of actual video content in addition to this, which I will be doing very shortly smile.gif

For interest, here are the uncropped photos of the whole screen:

"Nope smile.gif

That is with item 21 in the Service Menu turned OFF. It's a lot worse with it turned on

You can sometimes improve things more by additionally toggling Item 2 within the service menu, which selects a different uniformity preset, but in this particular instance it just moves the grunge around to a different location on the screen; and Item 15 (with the models that have this) which switches to a different White Balance preset, can also help to clean up the image, however this last one necessitates calibrating the projector and you lose all presets except those that use D65 white point. 

However, Sony says this does not affect actual video content smile.gif

Either way, the fact of the matter is that the Sony projectors all have undefeatable video processing going on all of the time"

 

 

 

 

For the sort of money both brands are charging, is it too much to ask for lenses without significant chromatic aberration? The JVC isn't quite as bad as the Sony, but I'd be reluctant to pay half the RRP for either of these when fitted with such mediocre lenses.

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56 minutes ago, Quark said:

For the sort of money both brands are charging, is it too much to ask for lenses without significant chromatic aberration? The JVC isn't quite as bad as the Sony, but I'd be reluctant to pay half the RRP for either of these when fitted with such mediocre lenses.

I think the problem is if they make the lenses almost anomaly free on the cheaper projectors it starts to eat into the more expensive models as the gap in quality closes up.. So they need to sort of strangle the cheaper ones to keep the more expensive ones price tag.

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3 minutes ago, oztheatre said:

I think the problem is if they make the lenses almost anomaly free on the cheaper projectors it starts to eat into the more expensive models as the gap in quality closes up.. So they need to sort of strangle the cheaper ones to keep the more expensive ones price tag.

I can understand the (cynical) thinking manufacturers might have, but the base JVC just had a massive increase in price from earlier models. Yes we know it got 4K, but half the benefit of increased resolution is lost in CA.

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1 minute ago, Quark said:

I can understand the (cynical) thinking manufacturers might have, but the base JVC just had a massive increase in price from earlier models. Yes we know it got 4K, but half the benefit of increased resolution is lost in CA.

Yes it is.. and convergence problems.. Yes the base model now is only 1200 less than the top of the line from last year.. 9300 vs 10500. 

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https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sony-vpl-vw270es

 

for those looking for a 270es, they make good comparisons to 260es it replaced and 570es which is the step ip. clearly big minus is the missing dynamic iris on the 270es. 

 

which impacts on blacks,

 

"While its black levels almost certainly won’t rival those of the step-up VW570ES (thanks to the step up model’s dynamic iris), dark scenes look much less greyed over and flat than they did on the VW260ES. This makes dark scenes of the sort that populate all the best films more convincing and less tiring to watch."

 

while arrows photos look pretty average the review is quite complementary of the image vs say single chip 4K DLPs.

 

"There’s a stunning consistency and stability to the VW270ES’s clarity too. Single-chip 4K DLP projectors, by comparison, can look a little noisy at times. Also, with one or two exceptions, their sense of sharpness can ebb and flow. What’s more, even at their best, none of the pixel-shift 4K solutions look as emphatically 4K as the VW270ES."

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1 hour ago, betty boop said:

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sony-vpl-vw270es

 

for those looking for a 270es, they make good comparisons to 260es it replaced and 570es which is the step ip. clearly big minus is the missing dynamic iris on the 270es. 

 

which impacts on blacks,

 

"While its black levels almost certainly won’t rival those of the step-up VW570ES (thanks to the step up model’s dynamic iris), dark scenes look much less greyed over and flat than they did on the VW260ES. This makes dark scenes of the sort that populate all the best films more convincing and less tiring to watch."

 

while arrows photos look pretty average the review is quite complementary of the image vs say single chip 4K DLPs.

 

"There’s a stunning consistency and stability to the VW270ES’s clarity too. Single-chip 4K DLP projectors, by comparison, can look a little noisy at times. Also, with one or two exceptions, their sense of sharpness can ebb and flow. What’s more, even at their best, none of the pixel-shift 4K solutions look as emphatically 4K as the VW270ES."

Gee talk about biased. You have to be lucky to get a an error free 3 chip machine today, no doubt he was sent a perfect example.. not a real world unit that everyone else seems to get.. I wonder what 'single chip dlp that isn't really 4k and is a little noisy at times with sharpness that ebbs and flows' was he sent? 

I wonder what comparisons were made? Seems to be just based on memory and what someone said? They're not side by side and not a single measurement was taken for the 270.. Not even a test pattern? This 'review' reads more like an advert for the manufacturer than anything else Al. Compare that review to say Ekki Schmidt or Vincent Teoh or how they stack up over at the AVS forum with guys like Woofer and Javs - these people you can trust 100%, they're not biased towards any brand and will only ever be bluntly honest.. It is very much needed these days.. I'm not saying it isn't good but the way they market them you'd swear it was the top of the line model when it's the bottom model... Should be called biasedreviews.com 😂

 

Quote

Take this for example: Accompanying the VW270ES is an excellent remote control. Its unusually large, elongated shape provides room for decent-sized, well-spaced buttons. These buttons are logically organised, too, and brightly backlit to aid use in a dark projection room.

 

This is all true apart from one important thing, the backlight is bloody terrible. It's a dull blue and it's very hard to read as the lettering is too small. They even talked about good the new jvc remote is, it's woeful! My god you'd have to be blind to say it's better than the previous one.

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1 hour ago, oztheatre said:

Should be called biasedreviews.com 😂

haha they are usually pretty straight up oz, but hey they have a range of reviewers no doubt... or could be that GOLDEN sample of the sony there who knows ! I will say its one reason i look to real world end user testing. kind of thing we get from forums, this including. while first hand beats all that. what else got to go on right now. I think there is one working n7 in the wild in our lands. maybe one n5 :D not sure if many more "good" sony's :)

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With all the reports on AVS and here of panel misalignments, convergence problems, and chromatic aberration etc. in the new 4k projectors from both Sony and JVC after watching Star Wars Ep IV this morning (on Blu-ray, from the 2015 six movie box set, a really wonderful transfer that's really pin sharp and clean and it looked superb when projected by the DLA-N7, probably the best I've ever seen Ep IV projected including commercial cinemas, although I don't like some of the stuff Lucas "added" in this later version of Ep IV) I decided to check everything again to make sure I'm not missing any problems with my unit.

 

Putting up the quick brown fox image to test 4k sharpness (the QBF .png image file on a USB drive into my Oppo UDP203 which was set to chroma 4:4:4, and CMD off on the DLA-N7 to ensure the projector didn't downsample back to 4:2:2) and it looked sharp and correct, no chromatic aberration seen (certainly nothing like the recent pic Arrow put up on AVS of the Sony VPL-VW270ES projecting the QBF image!). Putting up the pixel alignment grid from the JVC menu and I don't see any overall or zone panel misalignment at all (and changing the pixel alignment to anything from 0 introduced misalignment on the grid, to my eyes), and maybe a tiny amount of chromatic aberration at the side edges of the screen (possibly the tiniest, tiniest hint of red fringing, if I put my nose right up to the screen, but absolutely nothing visible from my seating position).

 

I haven't run the JVC Autocal software to measure gamma, colour temp and colour yet. I'm just enjoying watching movies on it :)       

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This is all true apart from one important thing, the backlight is bloody terrible. It's a dull blue and it's very hard to read as the lettering is too small. They even talked about good the new jvc remote is, it's woeful! My god you'd have to be blind to say it's better than the previous one

I'll agree with you about the remote. It looks nice but it's a pain to use. To use it you have to constantly press the button for the backlight to see which button you want to press. 

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14 minutes ago, Davo1972 said:

I haven't run the JVC Autocal software to measure gamma, colour temp and colour yet. I'm just enjoying watching movies on it :)   

good to hear Davo you have a good one.

 

and no need to autocal so early up, I wouldnt bother until 200-400 hours or such. and then worth doing. if have access to a professional calibrator could also just get it calibrated. either ways both will be good steps forward. but its usually suggested to clock up some hours first :)

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11 minutes ago, Davo1972 said:

I'll agree with you about the remote. It looks nice but it's a pain to use. To use it you have to constantly press the button for the backlight to see which button you want to press. 

to be honest thats not really that different to the older remote. am always pressing the backlight before using. but then again tis not something to use that often so not really bothered me too much :)

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4 minutes ago, betty boop said:

good to hear Davo you have a good one.

 

and no need to autocal so early up, I wouldnt bother until 200-400 hours or such. and then worth doing. if have access to a professional calibrator could also just get it calibrated. either ways both will be good steps forward. but its usually suggested to clock up some hours first :)

About 70 hours up on it so far over the course of about 6 weeks :) which when compared to how many hours I clocked up on my old Sharpvision DLP (around 1000 hours over 12 years) shows I'm getting a heap more use out of the N7.

 

Getting this projector has made me love watching movies at home again. I'm seeing (and hearing with my Maestro M5 AV processor and 5.1.4 Atmos setup) new things in movies that I've seen many times in the past and have never previously seen! It's like watching a movie for the first time again :D 

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About 70 hours up on it so far over the course of about 6 weeks [emoji4] which when compared to how many hours I clocked up on my old Sharpvision DLP (around 1000 hours over 12 years) shows I'm getting a heap more use out of the N7.
 
Getting this projector has made me love watching movies at home again. I'm seeing (and hearing with my Maestro M5 AV processor and 5.1.4 Atmos setup) new things in movies that I've seen many times in the past and have never previously seen! It's like watching a movie for the first time again [emoji3] 


I heard from a dealer that there’s a good calibrator from Queensland that travels round Australia that we can book in once we’ve clicked enough hours on the projectors.

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Hey guys JVC In AUSTRALIA how come they haven’t updated their projectors In Australian website unless I’m looking in the wrong site.

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3 minutes ago, franin said:

Hey guys JVC In AUSTRALIA how come they haven’t updated their projectors In Australian website unless I’m looking in the wrong site.

I'd like to know too. I've mentioned it to them.. having projectors on there from 4 years ago is not a great look. It's the right site Frank just hasn't been updated in so long.

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So are these units available in Australia yet, I was told today by a retailer they had a production halt so the new updated ( fixed models ) are ready to go with no issues.

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1 minute ago, franin said:

So are these units available in Australia yet, I was told today by a retailer they had a production halt so the new updated ( fixed models ) are ready to go with no issues.

Yes there's a small number out there now. We'll just to wait and see if the next batch has any issues. I hope for their sake they don't as it'll be almost time for rumors of new models for next year soon.

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11 hours ago, oztheatre said:

Yes there's a small number out there now. We'll just to wait and see if the next batch has any issues. I hope for their sake they don't as it'll be almost time for rumors of new models for next year soon.

Do you think they will actually have a new revision for next year?

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15 minutes ago, waikis said:

Do you think they will actually have a new revision for next year?

Who knows mate, Japan don't let much out of the bag...

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On 25/03/2019 at 7:55 AM, waikis said:

Do you think they will actually have a new revision for next year?

Most likely, they have gotten into this yearly release cycle that has had minor improvements for a number of years now.

Don't think they will go back to the days before the Xxxx models of bi-yearly updates

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1 hour ago, Johnny_Boy said:

Most likely, they have gotten into this yearly release cycle that has had minor improvements for a number of years now.

Don't think they will go back to the days before the Xxxx models of bi-yearly updates

few big differences since last time... last time (I know as i was first the world unboxing one :D ) is there wasnt as huge step previous vs new range in tech... unlike now which is a whole new chipset chassis and such. also a big difference we all received ours as early as nov.... so they could announce a new range for release nov following year. 

 

we are yet to receive more than can count one hand so far :D 

 

anyways am sure time will tell. but i dare say rather than worrying about new models jvc concentrating on getting these ones out to customers and firmware updates and such....

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in the jvc line there are more plausible rumours I think...

 

that there will be the mid and high end laser to follow. whether later this year or year after. ala possibly nx9 chasis with a laser ? or is it Z1 updated. likely 2nd one I suspect. Z1 needs an update....

 

a nx9 chasis with laser has already been pointed out.  but only for simulation duties so probably a long ways yet for consumer use.

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2018/releases/dla-vs3000.html

 

there is also the competitor for the 5000es sony being suggested...can jvc go for something to top that ? 

 

there would be definitely two lasers coming I suspect but what they are only time will tell.

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