Jump to content

2019 - 2020 projector releases ?


Recommended Posts


 

On 28/08/2018 at 3:41 PM, Tasso said:
I think  many JVC owners would  also appreciate the ability to not lose so much light every time  HDR/Bt 2020 is engaged.    That would require better electronics from JVC to make this happen     -something  which may already be in the works.
 
l agree that 100% of DCI P3 is desirable but  I doubt that many  would notice - the light loss from filters is unmistakable, but also manageable with the right installation. The bottom line is BT-2020 for projectors involves some form of  compromise  at this point in time,  whether it be in the form of light loss or slightly less colour gamut.  It’s only until you get to the Z1 with it’s 3000 lumen output that the light penalty of engaging an additional filter won’t really matter 

 


What?

I can get 91% DCI right now without using my p3 filter in the JVC, you do know you can set it to still display bt2020 without one right?

I always laugh how people say hitting 99% of people with a filter is some kind of con vs a unit with no filter at all.

When you actually have the choice to use or not use a filter it trump's the lack of filter option every time.

Also with my projector the light loss is only 7% it's hardly bad, and the extra colour noticeable and worth it. You got from 33fl to 30fl big deal :)

 

Edited by Javs
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I'll go one better than that I hope. I'll have my new site www.4Kprojectors.com.au up and running and we'll have specs and overviews, reviews with direct links to all the main forum threads around the

Hello my precious......

 

Sony 870ES  has 2200 Lumen  output and I am guessing they are using a similar  light engine  to  the 760ES with tweaks. No mention of dual laser.     Provided that they can achieve around  93% DCI-P3 without  engaging a filter like the 760ES, that will be decent  enough for big screen HDR.  It seems Sony went to a lot of trouble developing the tech for  high native P3 coverage  which was first seen first seen in the 5000, although that model has a P3 filter as well.  However, if  a filter must be deployed,  the  3000 lumen capability of the Z1 would do it better.    

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
43 minutes ago, Javs said:


 

 


What?

I can get 91% DCI right now without using my p3 filter in the JVC, you do know you can't set it to still display bt2020 without one right?

I always laugh how people say hitting 99% of people with a filter is some kind of con vs a unit with no filter at all.

When you actually have the choice to use or not use a filter it trump's the lack of filter option every time.

Also with my projector the light loss is only 7% it's hardly bad, and the extra colour noticeable and worth it. You got from 33fl to 30fl big deal :)

 

I have checked with light meter, verifying light loss with my projector filter or no filter, its 2/5ths of stuff all ! 

 

granted I use a smaller screen but its one notch on the iris thats it ... if just

 

I agree.... I'd rather the accuracy with the filter quite frankly :) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Javs said:


 

 


What?

I can get 91% DCI right now without using my p3 filter in the JVC, you do know you can't set it to still display bt2020 without one right?

I always laugh how people say hitting 99% of people with a filter is some kind of con vs a unit with no filter at all.

When you actually have the choice to use or not use a filter it trump's the lack of filter option every time.

Also with my projector the light loss is only 7% it's hardly bad, and the extra colour noticeable and worth it. You got from 33fl to 30fl big deal :)

 

 

Light loss from the JVC Z1  has been  said to have up to 40%  light loss with filter engaged.   You are lucky with your 7%   since a couple I have seen appear to have   been severely affected  when the filter is engaged .   I don't think having a filter is a con , but I do know that people I have spoken to have been put off by HDR when they see  light output dropping significantly.  This plus light loss through lamp ageing  needs to be factored in to the screen size etc.      

Link to post
Share on other sites


24 minutes ago, :) al said:

I agree.... I'd rather the accuracy with the filter quite frankly :) 

 

Unless JVC  colours are inaccurate to begin with, there should be no improvement in accuracy ,  just  a slightly wider gamut.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Light loss from the JVC Z1  has been  said to have up to 40%  light loss with filter engaged.   You are lucky with your 7%   since a couple I have seen appear to have   been severely affected  when the filter is engaged .   I don't think having a filter is a con , but I do know that people I have spoken to have been put off by HDR when they see  light output dropping significantly.  This plus light loss through lamp ageing  needs to be factored in to the screen size etc.      
There was an auto correction spelling mistake in my post. I meant to say you can set it up to use a filter, or not use a filter to show bt2020 not sure if that was obvious or not.

Without is about 91% DCI and the filter is 99%.

As for the light loss, across a couple jvc's now the trick is in how you calibrate it. Comes out to about 7% on all the lamp models. They aimed too high with the Z1 so the filter is quite extreme on that one. They should be shooting for 100% p3 and not 107% like they did.
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Javs said:

 I meant to say you can set it up to use a filter, or not use a filter to show bt2020 not sure if that was obvious or not.
 

Yes - I picked that up  and will advise concerned owners accordingly.  It is a good solution in some situations.  

Link to post
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, Tasso said:

An interesting take on contrast specs for those looking at buying new projectors.

 

You will never get your room to display ANSI contrast any greater than about 400:1 on the actual screen despite having a display able to project higher, that is unless you have a one in a million room with absolutely incredible velvet treatments on every single surface.

 

On/OFF is very important because its closer to where the real content level lies with most films. Most content averages near 5% ADL. So actually the most important contrast specs would be 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% ADL.

 

Been through this in depth over on AVS.

 

What you are proposing would mean a DLP with 550:1 ANSI and only 1000:1 native contrast would trump a JVC with 320:1 ANSI and 160,000:1 native contrast. That could not be further from the truth and that is because near black contrast is for more important than ANSI.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites


  • Moderators


2 hours ago, Javs said:

What you are proposing would mean a DLP with 550:1 ANSI and only 1000:1 native contrast would trump a JVC with 320:1 ANSI and 160,000:1 native contrast. That could not be further from the truth and that is because near black contrast is for more important than ANSI.

I was just being  the messenger!   Yes, I have compared my previous DLP to current JVC and Sony  and the DLP loses out overall for contrast in a totally dark room . However, the DLP did do some scenes better, particularly  with shadow detail .    I think it is also worth reminding people  if they are contemplating having ambient light in the room with these high contrast projectors,  the light will  raise the black levels and  destroy   contrast.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
42 minutes ago, flamjam said:

From that article it appears pricing is

 

DLA-NX9 - €17.999

DLA-N7 - €7.999

DLA-N5 - €5.999

 

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/30/08/2018/jvc-dla-n7-videoprojecteur-4k-natif-7999e/

 

What were the list prices for the current projectors?

 

flamjam, with such world wide disparity in pricing, I wouldnt go on anything overseas. we did get an awesome deal locally with JVC in previous years, so not sure that honeymoon will continue on. but one thing for sure looking at these projectors it sure looks like jvc have upsized :D so I would only suspect an upsized price to go with them ! unless some miracle comes to pass.

 

they sure are making a big deal on the all glass multiple elements of their lenses and good on them for sticking with those. looks like finally the 9 series lamp flagship truly gets something to step up with the 100mm wow ! all glass lens setup. is this the same on the z1 I wonder ? not looked into the z1 glass. if so looks like it might be a lamp based z1 ? 

 

looks like the models take a hit in contrast .... as one have wondered but appears if you step upto the 9 series it comes back punching ! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
5 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

Looking at the specs of the new JVC 4K projectors I think SONY are in real trouble ....😮

am really curious on this auto tone mapping... and they are supporting hdr10 as well I see :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
1 hour ago, flamjam said:

 

translating above, good run down there ! 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.passionhomecinema.fr%2Fblog%2Findex.php%2F30%2F08%2F2018%2Fjvc-dla-n7-videoprojecteur-4k-natif-7999e%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

 

"Tonal mapping function for an optimal HDR10 image

The new range of projectors incorporates an Auto Tone Mapping feature that automatically adjusts settings based on 4K Blu-ray Disc mastering information. Thus, this option allows a gain of simplicity and time since it is no longer necessary to manually adjust the parameters for viewing at the optimum HDR10 quality. With this advanced feature, the director's vision appears naturally under the eyes of viewers."

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Has anyone figured out what JVC have done with native contrast compared to previous projectors?  This  appeared to be  the biggest source of apprehension for current E-shift owners.

Edited by Tasso
Link to post
Share on other sites

Did some digging.     

 

JVC E-shift   X7900     native contrast ratio - 160,000:1

New JVC  DLA -N7B    native contrast ratio - 80,000:1

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Tasso said:

Did some digging.     

 

JVC E-shift   X7900     native contrast ratio - 160,000:1

New JVC  DLA -N7B    native contrast ratio - 80,000:1

X7900 is 130,000:1

Edited by wooferocau
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

now the ndas have lifted ! 

 

 

as vincent says with his calibration and measurements the 870 while accurate with SDR on HDR it only has 86.81% coverage of dci-p3

 

the standout of the range as he says though is the 870 wiht extremely crisp lens (ARC-F 18 element all glass lens) and the advanced iris. the lens optimisation is digital processing in reality creation and can be turned on-off thankfully he could hardly see its effect which is testament to the lens quality.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
8 hours ago, wooferocau said:

X7900 is 130,000:1

my x7000 is 120,000:1 , compared with the x5000 which was 40,000:1 and the x35 I had before that was 50,000:1 :) so looks like 7 series now at 80,000:1 while below where it was prior is still above the 5 series and lower prior.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

@Javs I noted this post of yours on avs about 10 days ago, looks like a bit of a shopping list ! 😛

 

Quote

And my first projector was the Sony 300ES Native 4k. It measured a tad over 10,000:1 contrast... It had its own issues in the end, but I jumped right off the 'Native 4k' train despite my brain telling me I was nuts at the time. A few days into owning a JVC I didn't regret it a single bit!

Resolution is NOT the sole most important thing. If it was, I would still own a native 4k unit. That is not to say its not important. There are other things which must collide for that perfect harmony.

Min ~40k:1, a good DI or dimming system, native 4k, clean sharp lens edge to edge, full P3, 18Gbps, and an unmolested (no forced noise reduction) image, and I would pay good coin for a unit like that, it ticks all the boxes.

How many of those boxes do the Sony tick right now? Two, maybe three.

 

with more info on the Sony's apart from p3 coverage and not sure where they still sit with the digital forced noise reduction, but does the 870 tick the boxes for you ? or you looking at the newer JVCs....

 

ps I remember your times with the 300es... and yep once you seen jvc blacks... its hard to go back :D

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, :) al said:

@Javs I noted this post of yours on avs about 10 days ago, looks like a bit of a shopping list ! 😛

 

 

with more info on the Sony's apart from p3 coverage and not sure where they still sit with the digital forced noise reduction, but does the 870 tick the boxes for you ? or you looking at the newer JVCs....

 

ps I remember your times with the 300es... and yep once you seen jvc blacks... its hard to go back :D

Hey Al,

 

No, the New JVCs tick most every box I am interested in barring laser. I can forgive that in light of what they managed to do with the native contrast. There is no way that the new Sony's will reach over 30k:1 native, you can quote me on that. Historically with an actual iris they have only managed at best 20k:1, so there is no reason to think its going to be much above that. The laser dimming for true black is cool, but thats the only place I think the laser will actually work on these models, the DI will do the rest above black, its too tough to have multiple dynamic gamma and DI systems working together without messing up the picture, so I think the laser will only operate in true black out mode.

 

The new JVC's will also no doubt have dual iris' same as the current units, so, an internal one and external one.

 

The new Sony only hits 87% of DCI by the way, Vincent Teoh measured it. The JVCs will sail past 100% no doubt, and also have the mode where you dont use the filter and hit probably near 90%.

 

8k eshift, means incressed MTF if you want it. Pretty great honestly. Not sure I would use it though. The current eshift models are naturally sharper with eshift off and less busy so I will probably prefer that. We will see.

 

The NX9 looks amazing for what they have been able to do, it seems like all of this will come in at the price point somewhere near the 760ES which is a home run. It has the Z1 lens in it, which accoding to quite a few people, namely Kris and Nigel (Arrow) is even better than the ARC lens in the Sony 1100ES and 5000ES, to me thats a huge deal, big enough where I can forget laser for the minute.

 

I would take a Zeiss Otus lens over a Sigma Art lens any day if you get my meaning...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

@Javs thanks for your thoughts... I look at these releases from both sony and jvc and cant help thinking wow launch of uhd had some great releases but these take the cake ! what interesting times rom jvc and sony. this really is like uhd 2nd gen ! and with a whole new chasis etc really looks like jvc has seriously invested in these new models. All is forgiven on the previous minimal touch ups they were doing in model releases. I hope it pays off for them ! I'd be lying if I didnt say i was seriously tempted on a N7 ! though I still suspect price is going to be SCARY which will more than likely rule me out ! 

 

the N9 flagship really does look amazing especially as you say wiht them fitting in the Z1 lens and with the contrast they are achieving and they tend to be honest about that. 

 

oh yeah no question on optics.... being in photography I can sure appreciate the part it plays ! no surprise on the z1 optics being so well regarded, whats more amazing is they have managed to get into the n9 ! definitely its seeming like a lamp based z1

 

ps re p3, I remember the jvcx5900 avforums review that said it can achieve 100% without filter so not suprised if theres as mode for that,

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-dla-x5900-dila-hdr-projector-review.14183

 

"A display's ability to track against Rec. 2020 isn't actually that important because although material is delivered using that colour gamut, most content is created using the DCI-P3 colour gamut. So what is of greater importance is how the display tracks DCI-P3 within the Rec. 2020 container. As you can see in the graph above, the X5900 did an excellent job and tracked most of the saturation points very well, aside from some minor hue errors in magenta. The tracking was definitely better than the X5000 that we reviewed previously and is also superior to a lot of the competition. The fact that the X5900 can deliver 100% of DCI-P3 without resorting to a filter means that it's also a bit brighter than other projectors with such wide colour gamuts."

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, :) al said:

@Javs thanks for your thoughts... I look at these releases from both sony and jvc and cant help thinking wow launch of uhd had some great releases but these take the cake ! what interesting times. this really is like uhd 2nd gen ! and with a whole new chasis etc really looks like jvc has seriously invested in these new models. All is forgiven on the previous minimal touch ups they were doing in model releases. I hope it pays off for them ! I'd be lying if I didnt say i was seriously tempted on a N7 ! though I still suspect price is going to be SCARY which will more than likely rule me out ! 

 

the N9 flagship really does look amazing especially as you say wiht them fitting in the Z1 lens and with the contrast they are achieving and they tend to be honest about that. 

 

oh yeah no question on optics.... being in photography I can sure appreciate the part it plays ! no surprise on the z1 optics being so well regarded, whats more amazing is they have managed to get into the n9 ! definitely its seeming like a lamp based z1

 

ps re p3, I remember the jvcx5900 avforums review that said it can achieve 100% without filter so not suprised if theres as mode for that,

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-dla-x5900-dila-hdr-projector-review.14183

 

"A display's ability to track against Rec. 2020 isn't actually that important because although material is delivered using that colour gamut, most content is created using the DCI-P3 colour gamut. So what is of greater importance is how the display tracks DCI-P3 within the Rec. 2020 container. As you can see in the graph above, the X5900 did an excellent job and tracked most of the saturation points very well, aside from some minor hue errors in magenta. The tracking was definitely better than the X5000 that we reviewed previously and is also superior to a lot of the competition. The fact that the X5900 can deliver 100% of DCI-P3 without resorting to a filter means that it's also a bit brighter than other projectors with such wide colour gamuts."

Regarding price, I have a feeling its going to be good news. It did not go unnotivced to me that the N7 was only about $1500 euro more than the EU pricing on the previous 7900...

 

Thats VERY worth it.

 

I am going to chuckle if the NX9 costs less than the Sony 760ES. When its only true competition is the new ARC based Sony which will surely cost as much as the Z1 here.

 

I think Sony has honestly priced themselves OUT of the market this time around.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
3 minutes ago, Javs said:

Regarding price, I have a feeling its going to be good news. It did not go unnotivced to me that the N7 was only about $1500 euro more than the EU pricing on the previous 7900...

 

Thats VERY worth it.

 

I am going to chuckle if the NX9 costs less than the Sony 760ES. When its only true competition is the new ARC based Sony which will surely cost as much as the Z1 here.

 

I think Sony has honestly priced themselves OUT of the market this time around.

oh goodness ... this could be very interesting ! and worth it I suspect too .... 

 

yes it is very unfortunate sony tend to be taking the premium pricing route which will in itself just price them out of reach and have people considering other models/brands ! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
3 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

So no laser model for JVC? Other than that, there is some great stuff there!

yep looks like keeping the laser for the Z1 beastie and n9 being more affordable with lamp.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, :) al said:

yep looks like keeping the laser for the Z1 beastie and n9 being more affordable with lamp.

Ugh. I wonder how the Aus price of the Z1 will compare to the 870. Probably around the same price I guess.

 

I can't believe that 86% coverage for the 870.

 

It is great what JVC have come up with though.

 

I am OK with my current, and am happy to wait a couple of years. But I'm pretty happy even now we are seeing such great movement from all parties in the projector world. It is not dying off.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
5 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

I am OK with my current, and am happy to wait a couple of years. But I'm pretty happy even now we are seeing such great movement from all parties in the projector world. It is not dying off.

I agree, even if sticking with what you have, which I might quite likely do (very happy with what I have), its great to see we havent hit a wall and stalemate. great to see the progress ! I know you are a 3D fan its great to see the projector makers sticking with this too ! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There is way more difference between the JVC Z1 and N9  than just the lamp.  Around 20kg of electronics in fact.  Having said that, the N9 with a laser engine would have been ideal  I think. I would take that any day over the ability to do faux 8k by wobbling the 4K panels

Edited by Tasso
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Tasso said:

There is way more difference between the JVC Z1 and N9  than just the lamp.  Around 20kg of electronics in fact.  Having said that, the N9 with a laser engine would have been ideal  I think. I would take that any day over the ability to do faux 8k by wobbling the 4K panels

Oh yeah, if I got the N9, I'd just disable the jiggle shift. What on earth would I want it for if I've no 8k content? And even if I did, there is no frigging way at 110", 2.7m seating that my eyes could resolve to that resolution. I just don't get it. Or am I missing something with 8k?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...