cindernat Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, DoggieHowser said: Had a guy from the industry tell me there is a board replacement for the JVC N series to handle tone mapping. Won't be a firmware update. Sounds like it could get messy. Might explain the delays. Interesting. People that already have theirs won't be impressed if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waikis Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Weird, haven't heard any issues about the tone mapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 just relaying what I got from the guy. He's pissed off with the delays - but maybe JVC is feeding him BS to explain the delay in delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javs Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 12/03/2019 at 10:16 PM, oztheatre said: Sounds good. So this is the 12000H in Australia I gather? Matt? https://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-HT9060.htm https://www.benq.com/en-au/projector/cinepro-pro-cinema/x12000h.html Rich, you definitely want to look at the LK970 or LK990 rather than this one... Its simply not bright enough. The 990 is 6000 lumens! By the time you calibrate it will drop 30%. The 12000 or similar LED models will be dimmer than a JVC at that point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warroon Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 5 hours ago, waikis said: Weird, haven't heard any issues about the tone mapping. I wonder if this is the Yellow Whites that some have reported with Tone Mapping on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo1972 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, warroon said: I wonder if this is the Yellow Whites that some have reported with Tone Mapping on? The yellowed whites occur with the dynamic iris on. I havent noticed a problem with the auto tone mapping... Perhaps JVC are installing boards that do dynamic tone mapping 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 hours ago, warroon said: I wonder if this is the Yellow Whites that some have reported with Tone Mapping on? My understanding related to auto iris abd opening up iris. As posted in jvc thread manni has reported that cranking open iris as some are doing caused if run it closed down as manni shown removes effect obviously on larger screens likely to crank open. Smaller screens like manni runs you will clamp down iris. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooferocau Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Javs said: Rich, you definitely want to look at the LK970 or LK990 rather than this one... Its simply not bright enough. The 990 is 6000 lumens! By the time you calibrate it will drop 30%. The 12000 or similar LED models will be dimmer than a JVC at that point. BenQ seems to be a little "Taboo" on these forums, but the LK970 has turned out a pleasant surprise so far... Yep, its LOW APL Black level performance is POOR, BUT!!!!! above this , it has impressed the hell out of me! Spending all day tomorrow with several HT friends .... Comparing My Z1 / X9900 /X7500 and my mates 760ES directly to the BenQ LK970.. Will find out definitively tomorrow, but at his stage my initial impression is the LK970 produces a "Sharper" image than my Z1/RS4500 , and trust me thats saying something! The lens on the BenQ "Shames" some PJ,s i have had here! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 hours ago, wooferocau said: BenQ seems to be a little "Taboo" on these forums, but the LK970 has turned out a pleasant surprise so far... Yep, its LOW APL Black level performance is POOR, BUT!!!!! above this , it has impressed the hell out of me! Spending all day tomorrow with several HT friends .... Comparing My Z1 / X9900 /X7500 and my mates 760ES directly to the BenQ LK970.. Will find out definitively tomorrow, but at his stage my initial impression is the LK970 produces a "Sharper" image than my Z1/RS4500 , and trust me thats saying something! The lens on the BenQ "Shames" some PJ,s i have had here! No idea why DLP or BenQ is a taboo topic. 90% of commercial cinemas use DLP projection. Some of my clients are absolute hardcore DLP only fanatics, they laugh at the other tech and would never go near anything else.. I've never had anyone say that about lcd. It's got something going for it. Clarity and detail, ansi contrast, depth, motion, all important features, not just 'space scenes' of black. Look forward to your thoughts after you've tested more. The lens and optics sound incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, oztheatre said: No idea why DLP or BenQ is a taboo topic. 90% of commercial cinemas use DLP projection. Some of my clients are absolute hardcore DLP only fanatics, they laugh at the other tech and would never go near anything else.. I've never had anyone say that about lcd. It's got something going for it. Clarity and detail, ansi contrast, depth, motion, all important features, not just 'space scenes' of black. benq has had a rough patch oz, I remember the 8720 in 720p days that was their heyday they had a model or two after in 1080p days but that's about it. and then seemed to disappear....the last review of their 4k $10k thing was taking wcg signal and throwing it away to upsample non wcg to make some sort of interpolation. its great to see quite frankly the array of new models particularly the 5700. and without some sort of jikery pokery going on, some of their upper models are still though more for business commercial use though aren't they ? id like to see more consumer focus above the 5700 with array of new models suggest putting a good argument up for DLP ....we need more choice so glad they are there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTemp Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, wooferocau said: BenQ seems to be a little "Taboo" on these forums, but the LK970 has turned out a pleasant surprise so far... Yep, its LOW APL Black level performance is POOR, BUT!!!!! above this , it has impressed the hell out of me! Spending all day tomorrow with several HT friends .... Comparing My Z1 / X9900 /X7500 and my mates 760ES directly to the BenQ LK970.. Will find out definitively tomorrow, but at his stage my initial impression is the LK970 produces a "Sharper" image than my Z1/RS4500 , and trust me thats saying something! The lens on the BenQ "Shames" some PJ,s i have had here! DLP in general is sharp, even the cheaper models with inferior lens. One thing I have noticed in the past with DLP is that certain effects can look cartoonish due to being so sharp., for example, fire/explosions. Even certain scenes can look 'fake' compared to LCOS. Please compare and see if anything like that stands out compared to JVC/Sony. Also if not having a colour filter makes a difference in image quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waikis Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) For those in Vic, I noticed that bmc hifi has lk970 available for demo (along with a lot of other pjs): https://www.bmc-hifi.com.au/video-projectors Edited March 14, 2019 by waikis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopefullguy Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 nice one Max.. good generalisation and anti benq line about inferior lenses. i cant see the point of benq trying to make a "jvc" which i guess you and most posters refer to all the time. well the majority of pj owners do not own an expensive JVC and dont want to. Benq provide great value and affordable to the average worker projectors that they can easily set up and enjoy without needing to extend the mortgage. they have some irrelevant pjs imo such as the w2000/3000 but did bring out an affordable w1700 tk800 for those wanting to try "4k". now they have released the w2700 and w5700, also there is the higher again lk970. so they now do cover the full range for anyone to enjoy. lets hope they have not rushed things and rely on consumers to beta test the new range as JVC have obviously done with the N series. so many posts with problems in all forums.. didnt jvc make a DLP pj? anyway as benq have released 4? new pjs it might be optoma's turn soon. getting crowded out there but great for the average home user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooferocau Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Speaking of JVC.... I had an NX9 here and put over 100hrs on it.... So far the LK970 has put a bigger smile on my face than the NX9 ever did! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spizz Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Woofer high praise indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTemp Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 hours ago, hopefullguy said: nice one Max.. good generalisation and anti benq line about inferior lenses. i cant see the point of benq trying to make a "jvc" which i guess you and most posters refer to all the time. well the majority of pj owners do not own an expensive JVC and dont want to. Benq provide great value and affordable to the average worker projectors that they can easily set up and enjoy without needing to extend the mortgage. they have some irrelevant pjs imo such as the w2000/3000 but did bring out an affordable w1700 tk800 for those wanting to try "4k". now they have released the w2700 and w5700, also there is the higher again lk970. so they now do cover the full range for anyone to enjoy. lets hope they have not rushed things and rely on consumers to beta test the new range as JVC have obviously done with the N series. so many posts with problems in all forums.. didnt jvc make a DLP pj? anyway as benq have released 4? new pjs it might be optoma's turn soon. getting crowded out there but great for the average home user. Lol. Nothing anti Benq. In fact I was the one that brought the Benq to the conversation for Woofer and Arrow to test and compare to JVC and Sony (in another forum). The point about inferior lens on lesser models is actually a compliment. If you go to the cheap DLP projectors, they still look sharper than more expensive projectors with better glass. A few issues with current DLP projectors under the 15k range are high(er) input lag for gaming, no zoom memory for scope screens, low contrast. Sharpness and lens isnt one of them. Of course theres more cons as well (same with pros), but I would definitely get one if there was zoom memory and low lag. I still might sacrifice those two things and get one depending on the opinions of people like Woofer who get to see a variety of competing projectors together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 11 hours ago, MaxTemp said: DLP in general is sharp, even the cheaper models with inferior lens. One thing I have noticed in the past with DLP is that certain effects can look cartoonish due to being so sharp., for example, fire/explosions. Even certain scenes can look 'fake' compared to LCOS. Please compare and see if anything like that stands out compared to JVC/Sony. Also if not having a colour filter makes a difference in image quality. It's not that the BenQ projectors are doing anything to make the image 'extra sharp' it's that 3 chip devices soften the image because they can't get panel alignment right nor do they carry excellent optics unless you go to the Z1 or something very expensive. Cartoonish and fake? Well that's how the others would look if they had no CA or covergence problems... The DLP sharpness is because the image isn't hindered on it's way out of the projector. It's how the image is meant to look - sharp and detailed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTemp Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, oztheatre said: It's not that the BenQ projectors are doing anything to make the image 'extra sharp' it's that 3 chip devices soften the image because they can't get panel alignment right nor do they carry excellent optics unless you go to the Z1 or something very expensive. Cartoonish and fake? Well that's how the others would look if they had no CA or covergence problems... The DLP sharpness is because the image isn't hindered on it's way out of the projector. It's how the image is meant to look - sharp and detailed. No disagreement there. I think the 'softer' image is contributing for effects like fire to look better on non DLP projectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopefullguy Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 apologies Max. as usual i jumped the gun, must be use to the constant benq/dlp/entry/mid pj bashing over the last few years haha. although i also have criticised benq as a company that (until recently) seemed to release "new" pjs willy nilly. at least epson seems to have defined levels and lets a model have more than a few days production run (exaggerated) anyway i guess the good thing is there seems to be some possible initial, yet careful support for the new benq's in 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, MaxTemp said: No disagreement there. I think the 'softer' image is contributing for effects like fire to look better on non DLP projectors. I don't agree that something like fire looks better on non dlp machines, softer isn't better imho. I love razor sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggieHowser Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 The DLP sharpness is because the image isn't hindered on it's way out of the projector. It's how the image is meant to look - sharp and detailed.That’s not the only thing. The lens still matters. I have a Vivitek and it is nowhere as sharp as the BenQ W1700 and I reckon Benq’s LK990/970 has as good a lens if not better (bearing in mind the lens of the W1700 is considerably smaller hence cheaper without needing lens shift) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooferocau Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 hours ago, oztheatre said: The DLP sharpness is because the image isn't hindered on it's way out of the projector. It's how the image is meant to look - sharp and detailed. Spot on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Arrow on Avs has started his reviews and the one on 570es is looking pretty bad with misalignment / chromatic aberrations or something inherent to Sony sxrd panels. Suspects now it might have been dropped.. sonys seem to have even thinner foam internally for packaging. Am thinking with where projectors are with Sony jvc both brands need to consider uping their packaging and shipping means ...especially when consider what these things cost .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, betty boop said: Arrow on Avs has started his reviews and the one on 570es is looking pretty bad with misalignment / chromatic aberrations or something inherent to Sony sxrd panels. Suspects now it might have been dropped.. sonys seem to have even thinner foam internally for packaging. Am thinking with where projectors are with Sony jvc both brands need to consider uping their packaging and shipping means ...especially when consider what these things cost .... Yeah I saw that Al, bloody terrible. I think it's been a problem for several years but it's finally catching up with them as people are more and more getting tired of these issues.. If it were on a TV you'd return it, but somehow because it's a projector it's ok. Not for those prices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 7 hours ago, oztheatre said: Yeah I saw that Al, bloody terrible. I think it's been a problem for several years but it's finally catching up with them as people are more and more getting tired of these issues.. If it were on a TV you'd return it, but somehow because it's a projector it's ok. Not for those prices. Seeing the Sony 270es he also checked prior looks carp as too, reckons that’s chromaric aberration as well ? Hope something both brands get onto quick smart !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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