2019 - 2020 projector releases ?

[betty boop]

42 minutes ago, flamjam said:

From that article it appears pricing is

 

DLA-NX9 - €17.999

DLA-N7 - €7.999

DLA-N5 - €5.999

 

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/30/08/2018/jvc-dla-n7-videoprojecteur-4k-natif-7999e/

 

What were the list prices for the current projectors?

 

flamjam, with such world wide disparity in pricing, I wouldnt go on anything overseas. we did get an awesome deal locally with JVC in previous years, so not sure that honeymoon will continue on. but one thing for sure looking at these projectors it sure looks like jvc have upsized  so I would only suspect an upsized price to go with them ! unless some miracle comes to pass.

 

they sure are making a big deal on the all glass multiple elements of their lenses and good on them for sticking with those. looks like finally the 9 series lamp flagship truly gets something to step up with the 100mm wow ! all glass lens setup. is this the same on the z1 I wonder ? not looked into the z1 glass. if so looks like it might be a lamp based z1 ? 

 

looks like the models take a hit in contrast .... as one have wondered but appears if you step upto the 9 series it comes back punching ! 

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

Looking at the specs of the new JVC 4K projectors I think SONY are in real trouble ....

am really curious on this auto tone mapping... and they are supporting hdr10 as well I see

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, flamjam said:

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/30/08/2018/jvc-dla-n7-videoprojecteur-4k-natif-7999e/

 

translating above, good run down there ! 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.passionhomecinema.fr%2Fblog%2Findex.php%2F30%2F08%2F2018%2Fjvc-dla-n7-videoprojecteur-4k-natif-7999e%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

 

"Tonal mapping function for an optimal HDR10 image

The new range of projectors incorporates an Auto Tone Mapping feature that automatically adjusts settings based on 4K Blu-ray Disc mastering information. Thus, this option allows a gain of simplicity and time since it is no longer necessary to manually adjust the parameters for viewing at the optimum HDR10 quality. With this advanced feature, the director's vision appears naturally under the eyes of viewers."

 

 

[TP1]

 

 

Has anyone figured out what JVC have done with native contrast compared to previous projectors?  This  appeared to be  the biggest source of apprehension for current E-shift owners.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Tasso

[TP1]

Did some digging.     

 

JVC E-shift   X7900     native contrast ratio - 160,000:1

New JVC  DLA -N7B    native contrast ratio - 80,000:1

[wooferocau]

19 minutes ago, Tasso said:

Did some digging.     

 

JVC E-shift   X7900     native contrast ratio - 160,000:1

New JVC  DLA -N7B    native contrast ratio - 80,000:1

X7900 is 130,000:1

Edited August 30, 2018 by wooferocau

[poppybob]

Just bought x9900 for great price. Will happily sit on that until no bugs and pricing to drop slightly for the 8k. No 8k stuff to watch anyways.

[betty boop]

now the ndas have lifted ! 

 

 

as vincent says with his calibration and measurements the 870 while accurate with SDR on HDR it only has 86.81% coverage of dci-p3

 

the standout of the range as he says though is the 870 wiht extremely crisp lens (ARC-F 18 element all glass lens) and the advanced iris. the lens optimisation is digital processing in reality creation and can be turned on-off thankfully he could hardly see its effect which is testament to the lens quality.

[betty boop]

8 hours ago, wooferocau said:

X7900 is 130,000:1

my x7000 is 120,000:1 , compared with the x5000 which was 40,000:1 and the x35 I had before that was 50,000:1  so looks like 7 series now at 80,000:1 while below where it was prior is still above the 5 series and lower prior.

[betty boop]

@Javs I noted this post of yours on avs about 10 days ago, looks like a bit of a shopping list !

 

Quote

And my first projector was the Sony 300ES Native 4k. It measured a tad over 10,000:1 contrast... It had its own issues in the end, but I jumped right off the 'Native 4k' train despite my brain telling me I was nuts at the time. A few days into owning a JVC I didn't regret it a single bit!

Resolution is NOT the sole most important thing. If it was, I would still own a native 4k unit. That is not to say its not important. There are other things which must collide for that perfect harmony.

Min ~40k:1, a good DI or dimming system, native 4k, clean sharp lens edge to edge, full P3, 18Gbps, and an unmolested (no forced noise reduction) image, and I would pay good coin for a unit like that, it ticks all the boxes.

How many of those boxes do the Sony tick right now? Two, maybe three.

 

with more info on the Sony's apart from p3 coverage and not sure where they still sit with the digital forced noise reduction, but does the 870 tick the boxes for you ? or you looking at the newer JVCs....

 

ps I remember your times with the 300es... and yep once you seen jvc blacks... its hard to go back

[Javs]

1 hour ago, al said:

@Javs I noted this post of yours on avs about 10 days ago, looks like a bit of a shopping list !

 

 

with more info on the Sony's apart from p3 coverage and not sure where they still sit with the digital forced noise reduction, but does the 870 tick the boxes for you ? or you looking at the newer JVCs....

 

ps I remember your times with the 300es... and yep once you seen jvc blacks... its hard to go back

Hey Al,

 

No, the New JVCs tick most every box I am interested in barring laser. I can forgive that in light of what they managed to do with the native contrast. There is no way that the new Sony's will reach over 30k:1 native, you can quote me on that. Historically with an actual iris they have only managed at best 20k:1, so there is no reason to think its going to be much above that. The laser dimming for true black is cool, but thats the only place I think the laser will actually work on these models, the DI will do the rest above black, its too tough to have multiple dynamic gamma and DI systems working together without messing up the picture, so I think the laser will only operate in true black out mode.

 

The new JVC's will also no doubt have dual iris' same as the current units, so, an internal one and external one.

 

The new Sony only hits 87% of DCI by the way, Vincent Teoh measured it. The JVCs will sail past 100% no doubt, and also have the mode where you dont use the filter and hit probably near 90%.

 

8k eshift, means incressed MTF if you want it. Pretty great honestly. Not sure I would use it though. The current eshift models are naturally sharper with eshift off and less busy so I will probably prefer that. We will see.

 

The NX9 looks amazing for what they have been able to do, it seems like all of this will come in at the price point somewhere near the 760ES which is a home run. It has the Z1 lens in it, which accoding to quite a few people, namely Kris and Nigel (Arrow) is even better than the ARC lens in the Sony 1100ES and 5000ES, to me thats a huge deal, big enough where I can forget laser for the minute.

 

I would take a Zeiss Otus lens over a Sigma Art lens any day if you get my meaning...

[betty boop]

@Javs thanks for your thoughts... I look at these releases from both sony and jvc and cant help thinking wow launch of uhd had some great releases but these take the cake ! what interesting times rom jvc and sony. this really is like uhd 2nd gen ! and with a whole new chasis etc really looks like jvc has seriously invested in these new models. All is forgiven on the previous minimal touch ups they were doing in model releases. I hope it pays off for them ! I'd be lying if I didnt say i was seriously tempted on a N7 ! though I still suspect price is going to be SCARY which will more than likely rule me out ! 

 

the N9 flagship really does look amazing especially as you say wiht them fitting in the Z1 lens and with the contrast they are achieving and they tend to be honest about that. 

 

oh yeah no question on optics.... being in photography I can sure appreciate the part it plays ! no surprise on the z1 optics being so well regarded, whats more amazing is they have managed to get into the n9 ! definitely its seeming like a lamp based z1

 

ps re p3, I remember the jvcx5900 avforums review that said it can achieve 100% without filter so not suprised if theres as mode for that,

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-dla-x5900-dila-hdr-projector-review.14183

 

"A display's ability to track against Rec. 2020 isn't actually that important because although material is delivered using that colour gamut, most content is created using the DCI-P3 colour gamut. So what is of greater importance is how the display tracks DCI-P3 within the Rec. 2020 container. As you can see in the graph above, the X5900 did an excellent job and tracked most of the saturation points very well, aside from some minor hue errors in magenta. The tracking was definitely better than the X5000 that we reviewed previously and is also superior to a lot of the competition. The fact that the X5900 can deliver 100% of DCI-P3 without resorting to a filter means that it's also a bit brighter than other projectors with such wide colour gamuts."

[Javs]

1 minute ago, al said:

@Javs thanks for your thoughts... I look at these releases from both sony and jvc and cant help thinking wow launch of uhd had some great releases but these take the cake ! what interesting times. this really is like uhd 2nd gen ! and with a whole new chasis etc really looks like jvc has seriously invested in these new models. All is forgiven on the previous minimal touch ups they were doing in model releases. I hope it pays off for them ! I'd be lying if I didnt say i was seriously tempted on a N7 ! though I still suspect price is going to be SCARY which will more than likely rule me out ! 

 

the N9 flagship really does look amazing especially as you say wiht them fitting in the Z1 lens and with the contrast they are achieving and they tend to be honest about that. 

 

oh yeah no question on optics.... being in photography I can sure appreciate the part it plays ! no surprise on the z1 optics being so well regarded, whats more amazing is they have managed to get into the n9 ! definitely its seeming like a lamp based z1

 

ps re p3, I remember the jvcx5900 avforums review that said it can achieve 100% without filter so not suprised if theres as mode for that,

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/jvc-dla-x5900-dila-hdr-projector-review.14183

 

"A display's ability to track against Rec. 2020 isn't actually that important because although material is delivered using that colour gamut, most content is created using the DCI-P3 colour gamut. So what is of greater importance is how the display tracks DCI-P3 within the Rec. 2020 container. As you can see in the graph above, the X5900 did an excellent job and tracked most of the saturation points very well, aside from some minor hue errors in magenta. The tracking was definitely better than the X5000 that we reviewed previously and is also superior to a lot of the competition. The fact that the X5900 can deliver 100% of DCI-P3 without resorting to a filter means that it's also a bit brighter than other projectors with such wide colour gamuts."

Regarding price, I have a feeling its going to be good news. It did not go unnotivced to me that the N7 was only about $1500 euro more than the EU pricing on the previous 7900...

 

Thats VERY worth it.

 

I am going to chuckle if the NX9 costs less than the Sony 760ES. When its only true competition is the new ARC based Sony which will surely cost as much as the Z1 here.

 

I think Sony has honestly priced themselves OUT of the market this time around.

[betty boop]

3 minutes ago, Javs said:

Regarding price, I have a feeling its going to be good news. It did not go unnotivced to me that the N7 was only about $1500 euro more than the EU pricing on the previous 7900...

 

Thats VERY worth it.

 

I am going to chuckle if the NX9 costs less than the Sony 760ES. When its only true competition is the new ARC based Sony which will surely cost as much as the Z1 here.

 

I think Sony has honestly priced themselves OUT of the market this time around.

oh goodness ... this could be very interesting ! and worth it I suspect too .... 

 

yes it is very unfortunate sony tend to be taking the premium pricing route which will in itself just price them out of reach and have people considering other models/brands ! 

[Mobe1969]

So no laser model for JVC? Other than that, there is some great stuff there!

[betty boop]

3 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

So no laser model for JVC? Other than that, there is some great stuff there!

yep looks like keeping the laser for the Z1 beastie and n9 being more affordable with lamp.

[Mobe1969]

3 minutes ago, al said:

yep looks like keeping the laser for the Z1 beastie and n9 being more affordable with lamp.

Ugh. I wonder how the Aus price of the Z1 will compare to the 870. Probably around the same price I guess.

 

I can't believe that 86% coverage for the 870.

 

It is great what JVC have come up with though.

 

I am OK with my current, and am happy to wait a couple of years. But I'm pretty happy even now we are seeing such great movement from all parties in the projector world. It is not dying off.

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

I am OK with my current, and am happy to wait a couple of years. But I'm pretty happy even now we are seeing such great movement from all parties in the projector world. It is not dying off.

I agree, even if sticking with what you have, which I might quite likely do (very happy with what I have), its great to see we havent hit a wall and stalemate. great to see the progress ! I know you are a 3D fan its great to see the projector makers sticking with this too ! 

[TP1]

There is way more difference between the JVC Z1 and N9  than just the lamp.  Around 20kg of electronics in fact.  Having said that, the N9 with a laser engine would have been ideal  I think. I would take that any day over the ability to do faux 8k by wobbling the 4K panels

Edited August 31, 2018 by Tasso

[Mobe1969]

11 minutes ago, Tasso said:

There is way more difference between the JVC Z1 and N9  than just the lamp.  Around 20kg of electronics in fact.  Having said that, the N9 with a laser engine would have been ideal  I think. I would take that any day over the ability to do faux 8k by wobbling the 4K panels

Oh yeah, if I got the N9, I'd just disable the jiggle shift. What on earth would I want it for if I've no 8k content? And even if I did, there is no frigging way at 110", 2.7m seating that my eyes could resolve to that resolution. I just don't get it. Or am I missing something with 8k?

[TP1]

The JVC 5900 doing 100% of P3 without a filter is not without compromises. I recall that being in the manner in which it could portray Rec 709.  If  100% of P3 was that easy to achieve without problems, it would not only be present on their  lowest  cost projector .  Look at the Z1 for clues on how JVC consider is the very best approach to colour accuracy and coverage for all colour gamuts.  Remember, most viewing is still done by most people with video using Rec709.

 

The  870ES on the other hand is a bit disappointing in terms of its P3 coverage.  They were able to get a bit more lumen output compared to the 760ES , probably due to the larger lens aperture, but dropping P3 coverage is a mystery.   However, I would like to see how this pans out with production models etc 

[Javs]

14 minutes ago, Tasso said:

The JVC 5900 doing 100% of P3 without a filter is not without compromises. I recall that being in the manner in which it could portray Rec 709.  If  100% of P3 was that easy to achieve without problems, it would not only be present on their  lowest  cost projector .  Look at the Z1 for clues on how JVC consider is the very best approach to colour accuracy and coverage for all colour gamuts.  Remember, most viewing is still done by most people with video using Rec709.

 

The  870ES on the other hand is a bit disappointing in terms of its P3 coverage.  They were able to get a bit more lumen output compared to the 760ES , probably due to the larger lens aperture, but dropping P3 coverage is a mystery.   However, I would like to see how this pans out with production models etc 

The 5900 is and always was a different light engine to its bigger brothers, it could cover most of P3 but at the expense of Rec709 tracking and accuracy.

 

The Z1 shot for the stars with BT2020 coverage It still covers more of BT2020 than any other projector under 100K IIRC, JVC realised this was foolish and costly for light output though, so now they focus on making sure to hit 100% P3 which is the smart move. My JVC only loses 7% of its calibrated D6500 light when looking at Rec709 vs P3 so if it keeps to around this figure its excellent.

 

I am betting these new JVCs will calibrate to 1900/2000 lumens.  So hopefully you are looking at 1800+ calibrated P3 HDR lumens, which is going to be excellent. Even the Z1 only does about that much by the time you use the filter to hit P3 and calibrate it. 2400lm to about 1800lm I am told.

 

I dont care about high brightness HDR though right now, so I would be stopping down the iris further than I usually do with the eshift models due to more calibrated brightness, use tone mapping and enjoy high contrast and high resolution in tandem for the first time ever.

 

Regarding the 870, I do feel that's probably just pre production sample, surely they wont go backwards in gamut. I did note Vincent recorded very high Delta E's when he calibrated that unit, well over 5 starting out and very bad gamma, he would have lost a LOT of light fixing that. I am also sure that must be pre production issues.

[TP1]

2 hours ago, Javs said:

I am going to chuckle if the NX9 costs less than the Sony 760ES. When its only true competition is the new ARC based Sony which will surely cost as much as the Z1 here

 

Yep, Sony looks like it will price the 870ES the same as Z1.    The price premium that JVC places on the lens  and faux 8K is pretty high however, and I think the N7 is the standout in the lineup in terms of value 

[TP1]

2 hours ago, Javs said:

Regarding price, I have a feeling its going to be good news. It did not go unnotivced to me that the N7 was only about $1500 euro more than the EU pricing on the previous 7900

 

If you do decide to upgrade projectors, we will be waiting with interest to hear about your experiences. 

[Javs]

20 minutes ago, Tasso said:

The price premium that JVC places on the lens  and faux 8K is pretty high however, and I think the N7 is the standout in the lineup in terms of value 

I just hope what I heard is right in that the 65mm lens used in that machine is an entirely new design.

 

I dont think the price premium for the NX9 is too much considering Sonys jumps in their own range.