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Tasso

Suitability of Perforated Acoustically Transparent Screens for 4k

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I wondered why so many movies had been mastered with 2K intermediates  when they mostly  shoot them these days with higher resolutions.   After all, it should be easy enough  for a well equipped studio to use a higher resolution intermediate.   The answer appears to be due to testing done by SMPTE ( Society of Motion Picture and Televison Engineers)  where they  quizzed test audiences in theatres with perforated acoustically transparent screens projecting 2k and 4k side by side. The audiences couldn't tell the difference between the 2k and 4k images.   However in subsequent testing where acoustically transparent screen was next to a solid white one, they could easily discern the differences.

 

I understand that woven AT screens fare much better than perforated  and it would be a pity to buy a 4k projector only to have its resolution rogered by the screen.

 

 

Edited by Tasso
More Accurate description

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I have woven AT screen material designed for 4K.... and it looks to me equivalent to a non AT screen (although I don't have a 4K projector).

 

I consulted extensively with jon.seymourav@gmail.com - and he appeared to really know his stuff, and interested in what was appropriate for me (rather than just in 'sell' mode).   You should ask his advice.

 

My understanding is big! perforated screens have pretty significant holes .... and so woven material designed for a smaller screen should be quite different.

 

 

 

 

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I bought from Seymour as well,arrived in less than a week ,great screen

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Seymour woven AT screen  has a great reputation for sharpness and image presentation -   In a test I saw that it resolves  and displays true 4k  UHD material remarkably well.      I dont know how many perforated screens are on the market at the moment , but the Seymour would be my pick if  I was going to AT.

 

As far as walk-in  movie theatres are concerned, the cost of upgrading screen material to a woven type to display 4k or 8K images  will probably put  off  cinema operators from embracing new tech.

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I have amended the topic title to more accurately reflect the SMPTE findings 

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7 minutes ago, Tasso said:

but the Seymour would be my pick if  I was going to AT.

 

I'd ask him your question.... he dropped the "sales" speak real quick and was very interested/helpful/knowledgeable when I asked him a direct question about performance.

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There are very small losses with an AT screen as even a weave passes light through the fabric.  However, the overall gains in AV far out weigh these small losses, so don't let the idea put you off going at.  I've had AT since 2006 and there no way I would go back to a solid screen with speakers above or below the screen.  

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https://www.imax.com.au/news/2012/02/phase-one-of-the-new-imax-screen-installation-begins-with-removal-of-the-old-one/

 

imax perforated screen being replaced. Can see the material that was used,. Sydney re opens in 2019 with their 4K lasers like we got in Melbourne 3 years ago :)

 

https://www.imax.com.au/news/2016/09/imax-redevelopment/

 

 

 

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On 06/08/2018 at 2:57 PM, davewantsmoore said:

I have woven AT screen material designed for 4K.... and it looks to me equivalent to a non AT screen (although I don't have a 4K projector).

 

I consulted extensively with jon.seymourav@gmail.com - and he appeared to really know his stuff, and interested in what was appropriate for me (rather than just in 'sell' mode).   You should ask his advice.

 

My understanding is big! perforated screens have pretty significant holes .... and so woven material designed for a smaller screen should be quite different.

 

 

 

 

Yes perforated commercial cinema screens have holes like knitting needles.. Woven is not only acoustically superior but the holes are far less visible for the home cinema setup.

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Has anyone compared the Oz Theater Screen woven with Seymour?

 

I used Seymour on our last screen.... vowed never to DIY again. Worked out great, but the fabric was VERY delicate

Edited by Peter the Greek

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3 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:

Has anyone compared the Oz Theater Screen woven with Seymour?

 

I used Seymour on our last screen.... vowed never to DIY again. Worked out great, but the fabric was VERY delicate

Just not worth the DIY really given quality screens can pick that dont have to DIY. Doesn’t Seymour do non DIY screens ?

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Has anyone compared the Oz Theater Screen woven with Seymour?
 
I used Seymour on our last screen.... vowed never to DIY again. Worked out great, but the fabric was VERY delicate


Yes I compared,the Seymour has a finer weave,but if I recall correctly not quite as bright as the oztheatre,had a couple of sample hanging on a makedo sheet until I made up my mind,in the end imported from Seymour,was not much difference price either way,Seymour will supply material for diy or a complete screen
If someone is really interested I probs still have the samples somewhere
Cheers Muri

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I can't really comment on how good the material is for 4K as my projector not calibrated (no internet yet!)
[emoji26]

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This is a link to a post that explains the SMPTE trials and findings:

 

https://www.soundandvision.com/comment/536308#comment-536308

 

My comment about Seymour Screens was based on this observation made by "Widescreen Review" in their June 2018 issue while testing the Sony 885ES (760ES).    The same material is used by  Stewart on  one of their screens.

 

"the 885ES images were very impressive indeed. They remained impressive  on different projection screen materials also. The woven (not punched) acoustically transparent Enlightor Neo screen material from Seymour-Screen Excellence revealed the supremely sharp images as well as subtle changes in luminance/shading that make images seem highly natural looking as well. Something I didn’t expect was sharpness to be as obvious with a woven screen compared to a solid-coated screen material. It is worth re-mentioning, that the SMPTE’s testing of perforated cinema projection screens revealed that the additional resolution of 4K images was not visible to the audience when projected onto perforated projection screens as used in most cinemas around the world. So anyone wishing to use an acoustically transparent projection screen with any “real” 4K or UHD projector needs to select  the material for the screen very carefully so they are able to “see” the resolution these projectors can deliver to screens capable of delivering that resolution to your eyes."

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There is a picture on the Seymour wen page showing the size of a 4K pixel(can't remember screen size)compared to the hole perforation size
The hole is not an issue its small compared to the pixel size

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This might be a good place to ask instead of creating a new thread; does anyone know who I should be speaking to here in Australia to look at purchasing this Seymour screen excellence screen? 

 

http://www.seymourscreenexcellence.com/Trim.asp

 

I have emailed them direct, but have yet to receive an answer. The screen excellence, Seymour av and Seymour screen excellence company names confuse the crap out of me! 

Edited by minireza

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Hi Mini,I think one of the Seymour is in the uk and one in the USA? Same company but varied products?
I dealt with Jon in USA
If in Melbourne you are welcome to come look my screen
Great product and service
Pm me if you need
Cheers Muriwai

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19 minutes ago, muriwai said:

Hi Mini,I think one of the Seymour is in the uk and one in the USA? Same company but varied products?
I dealt with Jon in USA
If in Melbourne you are welcome to come look my screen
Great product and service
Pm me if you need
Cheers Muriwai

Thankyou for the quick reply. What screen material do you have? 

 

Anymore feedback is also greatly appreciated. By all accounts it seems to be the reference standard! 

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I think it was called uf?its a finely woven material
I had a sample of XD and the UF,the XD had a bit more gain but bigger holes
I went with the UF,and a bit less gain
Cheers

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1 hour ago, muriwai said:

I think it was called uf?its a finely woven material
I had a sample of XD and the UF,the XD had a bit more gain but bigger holes
I went with the UF,and a bit less gain
Cheers

Ok cool; thank you.

 

The material that is of most interest to me is the "Enlightor Neo", which I gather is a Screen Excellence & Seymour Screen Excellence product, versus your Centre Stage UF which I think is a Seymour AV product?? So confusing!! haha

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As I recall the Neo was being woven in Europe and Seymour in the USA weren't going to import it but we're looking at finding a weaver in the USA that could weave it for them
It was going to be double the price of the UF if I recall
Cheers

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@muriwai hi, i’m Looking at changing my existing screen to an acousticallytransparent screen. If possible I’ d like to see yours in action thanks

alan

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