Is this a cable issue? 4K HDMI over 10 metres

[drteflon]

I thought I'd start a new thread for this particular problem but am OK if mods want to merge it with another one of the other HDMI cable threads.

Setup is:

Yamaha 2080

HDMI out 1 to TV (pana OLED), HMDI out 2 to PJ (JVC x5900). The projector is a 10 metre cable run

 

Current 10 metre cable is the Comsol from officeworks. My old 10 metre cable didn't work.

Oppo 203 (4k 24 Hz picture) works to the PJ

Chromecast (4K 60 Hz) will not, but works to the TV which is a much shorter run and using older cables. Chromecast will work to the PJ if I force HDMI 1.4 to the PJ.

Fetch TV doesn't work set at 4K 60Hz either but if just set at HD (1080p, 50Hz) it is fine to the PJ

 

I tried different HDMI ports. Power cycling. Factory reset etc on the Yamaha but no love.

To my troubleshooting I think it is the length of cable run - the Comsol is happy with the Oppo but isn't quite happy enough with 4K 60Hz from the Chromecast Ultra

I've dug into the web setup menu of the Yamaha and couldn't find any settings that I was particularly missing... I guess I could force 4K output on the Yammie?

 

I think it would be worthwhile trying a different cable but wanted to see if any one else had any thoughts?

[Quark]

What happens if you connect the Chromecast or Fetch directly to the 10m cable to the projector?

 

Does everything have the latest firmware?

[betty boop]

57 minutes ago, drteflon said:

Yamaha 2080

HDMI out 1 to TV (pana OLED), HMDI out 2 to PJ (JVC x5900). The projector is a 10 metre cable run

 

Current 10 metre cable is the Comsol from officeworks. My old 10 metre cable didn't work.

Oppo 203 (4k 24 Hz picture) works to the PJ

Chromecast (4K 60 Hz) will not,

something going on there. are there any settings on the yamaha doing anything that might have changed ?

 

I have appleTV 4k, xbox oneX oppo, all working through marantz feeding over a comsol 10 doing 4k 50/60 no probs  I use the fetch mighty too but its set to 1080p (and use a switcher from office works to mask its hdcp)

 

are these all on factory settings. and very importantly are all on latest firmware (as quark asked). this is important. all devices literally even the oppo were screwed on first iteration of 4k uhd and would cause all sorts of high jinx. note fetch mighty is still known to have screwed hdmi handshake. if check the owners thread on WP will see everyone uses a base switcher to bypass its hdcp checks. I had confirmation from microsoft their hdcp isnt quite right. quite possible something on the chrome cast isnt right either ? 

 

which office works comsol also is it ? is it this one, I do believe office works has a cheaper one as well, no idea on that.

 

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/comsol-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-10m-cohdmi100

[Hazel30]

G’day DrTeflon,

I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum but your setup, situation and issue has given me reason to be a first time poster.

I know there’s a lot of love on this forum for the Comsol 10m cable from Officeworks but I also experienced the same issues as you when using it to display a 4K 60Hz signal.

Late last year I upgraded from an old Epson 1080p TW1000 projector fed via a 10m Kordz HDMI V1.3B from a Yamaha Aventage 3000 series receiver. I bought a new JVC 5900 projector and Yamaha 2083 receiver along with a 4K Apple TV and XBox One X and needed a new higher spec 10m HDMI cable as a result.

After a bit of research I went with the Comsol 10m 4K cable recommended on this forum. I had no problem playing 4K movies via Apple TV at 4:2:0 or XBox but encountered problems when displaying a 4K 4:2:2 signal via Apple TV and 4K 60Hz games via XBox.

Long story short....after following a logical process of elimination I bit the bullet and bought the 10m Ruipro HDMI Fibre Optic Cable and the problem was solved. Have never seen the issue since.

Luckily I ran the Comsol across the floor to test it prior to installing in my ceiling so had no dramas returning it to Officeworks for a full refund.

I purchased the Ruipro via EzyHD and can agree with the glowing reviews on-line. It’s not priced in the same ballpark as the Comsol but the quality is excellent and it fixed my problem. Happy Days.

Hope this helps.

[betty boop]

3 minutes ago, Hazel30 said:

Luckily I ran the Comsol across the floor to test it prior to installing in my ceiling so had no dramas returning it to Officeworks for a full refund.

this is always a suggestion. and office works are very good with returns... I see the yamaha as a common factor in your two experiences.... im running marantz with no issues. we have to keep in mind avrs and any device in path has a part to play and in this case have to continue the handshakes and also can act as repeater. the office works is a great very affordable option. but if no luck no choice but to go the significantly more expensive ruipro

[Quark]

10 minutes ago, al said:

this is always a suggestion. and office works are very good with returns... I see the yamaha as a common factor in your two experiences.... im running marantz with no issues. we have to keep in mind avrs and any device in path has a part to play and in this case have to continue the handshakes and also can act as repeater. the office works is a great very affordable option. but if no luck no choice but to go the significantly more expensive ruipro

I didn't want to point the finger at the Yammie, but have seen a few reports that they output a meagre HDMI signal voltage that means cables must be perfect.

[drteflon]

Thanks guys

Am going to try the cable option first.

Thanks Hazel30 for your experience.

Quark - might try the Fetch direct to the projector tonight and see what happens as a final matter of troubleshooting!

 

Al will any sort of switcher do to mask the HDCP from the Fetch? I won't be using it that often to be honest I think anyway. (Or could force 1.4 for the Fetch on the Yammie)

[betty boop]

19 minutes ago, drteflon said:

Al will any sort of switcher do to mask the HDCP from the Fetch? I won't be using it that often to be honest I think anyway. (Or could force 1.4 for the Fetch on the Yammie)

any of them literally. they all (splitters/switchers) inadvertently mask the hdcp, and in essence get over the handshake issues. this is needed as the hdcp programming and protocol of the fetch is screwed as confirmed by qualifi head tech.

 

I have successfully used either

 

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/comsol-5-port-hdmi-switch-cohd501

 

or https://www.jaycar.com.au/2-port-hdmi-splitter-with-uhd-4k-support/p/AC1710

 

again being jay car/officeworks devices, they can be returned no issue. keep in mind I wouldnt be too bothering re passing 4k through these theyre really 1080p devices, but thats all need for the fetch, 4k off it isnt much to write home about. should be set to output 1080p

 

re the chrome, I would research what issues it has. big companies like microsoft cant get hdcp right (admitted by them) havent checked for a while but xbox one x struggles and a bit hit and miss swapping between legacy and 4k uhd displays.

 

[betty boop]

17 minutes ago, drteflon said:

Quark - might try the Fetch direct to the projector tonight and see what happens as a final matter of troubleshooting!

the oppo is actually the best test. at factory settings its menu is full bandwidth hdmi, any cable issues you wont get a picture.

 

but this is a full signal path thing. ie all devices matter. so quite possible working on oppo might not work on .... 

 

if had an apple tv it comes with a cable test. as does xbox one x.

[Hazel30]

I didn't want to point the finger at the Yammie, but have seen a few reports that they output a meagre HDMI signal voltage that means cables must be perfect.

I agree the Yamaha is the most likely culprit.

I’ve now owned 5 Yamaha AVR’s over the journey and been happy with them all up to now. I tried all the other stuff to find a fix like direct connection from source to display, latest firmware etc on all devices, factory resets etc etc

Comsol cable was the $69 version al referred to in his link. It appears to work perfectly fine for most people.

For me I couldn’t be bothered with returning the Yamaha to try something new and the simplest next step was to try a higher spec cable (albeit at a higher cost) and enjoy my system as it was intended.

Cheers.

[p.laver]

I bought the same cable from officeworks to use with my Oppo 203 with JVC X9000 projector: 

It worked fine with the Oppo output set to 1080p , source direct etc 

 

Changed the Oppo output to UHD Auto, the JVC changes to 4K 50 full fat, screen goes from Blinking to no display long story short, tried serval different settings and tests and it always came back to the cable.

 

I backed my cable because it's only good for 4k 24, any higher and it can't cope.

 

[betty boop]

12 minutes ago, p.laver said:

I bought the same cable from officeworks to use with my Oppo 203 with JVC X9000 projector: 

It worked fine with the Oppo output set to 1080p , source direct etc 

did you try the oppo at all with just out of factory setting ? (just do a factory reset) thats how mines working. 

 

make sure ofcourse oppo is fully upto date. firmware wise  presuming the jvc x9000 is also fully upto date ? as it also had a firmware update

[cwt]

4 hours ago, drteflon said:

I've dug into the web setup menu of the Yamaha and couldn't find any settings that I was particularly missing... I guess I could force 4K output on the Yammie?

 

I think it would be worthwhile trying a different cable but wanted to see if any one else had any thoughts?

Hi Drteflon ; go into the yammies web setup again ;click on advanced setup ; hdmi 4k mode down the bottom and then switch to mode 1 ; its best for 4k as it uses more bandwidth to match your 18gbps cables  

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2103058-official-yamaha-cx-a5100-avp-owners-thread-136.html#post56521720

[Hazel30]

Hi Drteflon ; go into the yammies web setup again ;click on advanced setup ; hdmi 4k mode down the bottom and then switch to mode 1 ; its best for 4k as it uses more bandwidth to match your 18gbps cables [emoji4] 
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2103058-official-yamaha-cx-a5100-avp-owners-thread-136.html#post56521720

I tried that too. Unfortunately no joy with the Comsol cable. Worth a shot though if you haven’t given it a go.

[betty boop]

by the way we are getting very close with affordably priced premium certified hdmi cable at now 30ft...

 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21510

 

not quite 10m...only 9.1m but only 27 usd...

 

am sure 10m (32ft) will be their next step....

 

ofcourse by the time it comes out...likely cables required for hdmi 2.1 will be needed

 

get your wallets out... check out the belkin hdmi hdmi v2.1 cable... $78 for a 2m cable !  

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/253712097169?chn=ps

 

[poppybob]

Anybody tried the kordz pro fibre optic

[drteflon]

Thanks everyone. Interesting discussion. Did try the 4K settings in the advanced menu as well and no love. @:) alInteresting about the oppo menu though - hadn't tried that yet as had a disc in there and it played automatically... I had a spare HDMI switch at home and the Fetch TV was stable tonight through the projector so the wife was happy.

 

I've been a bit of a Yammie/Denon/Marantz person. Even had an NAD at one stage. Gone back to Yamaha for this iteration of receiver for no real rhyme or reason but despite this initial teething period, I've been super impressed with it for movies already. The Denon 4520 was no slouch though and a great receiver (probably my favourite to date) and I have some regrets about selling it and not moving it to the general viewing area. Let's see how well this Yamaha serves me in the next 2-3 years. 

 

@Hazel30 thanks for the input - sounds like you've been through the same process I am describing! Let's see if the EzyHD cable fixes things for me too.

[Hazel30]

 

Cheers. Let us know how you get on. Given your almost identical setup and issue, I’d be very surprised if the Ruipro cable doesn’t fix your problem.

 

Good luck!

 

[p.laver]

16 hours ago, al said:

did you try the oppo at all with just out of factory setting ? (just do a factory reset) thats how mines working. 

 

make sure ofcourse oppo is fully upto date. firmware wise  presuming the jvc x9000 is also fully upto date ? as it also had a firmware update

All firmware on both JVC and Oppo are latest.

 

I started with a full factory reset obvious place to start at the beginning and then went through every setting with the 10m cable and 4m that I know works on every setting from the Oppo.

 

Each time a setting was changed or cable swapped both machines were switched off to make sure each change started from the same place each time

 

Each time the 10m cable wouldn't display the oppo menu when the Output setting is UHD Auto (4K (3840)50) at the JVC

 

Unless the cable come with cert label it's not worth buying. 

 

I've decided to put my Oppo less than 5 meters from the JVC with a new HDMI Certified Cable. Now I don't have any issues.

 

 

[betty boop]

27 minutes ago, p.laver said:

All firmware on both JVC and Oppo are latest.

 

I started with a full factory reset obvious place to start at the beginning and then went through every setting with the 10m cable and 4m that I know works on every setting from the Oppo.

 

Each time a setting was changed or cable swapped both machines were switched off to make sure each change started from the same place each time

 

Each time the 10m cable wouldn't display the oppo menu when the Output setting is UHD Auto (4K (3840)50) at the JVC

understand, though I dont know particularly why using the uhd auto setting or its bearing on proceedings. one other suspect is the edid setting s on the jvc too and also which input port you are using as one wiht the edid setting is catered for legacy device. but any case sounds like you are sorted and thats the main thing 

 

28 minutes ago, p.laver said:

Unless the cable come with cert label it's not worth buying. 

unfortunately the cert cables do not come in all lengths people need though. and have to keep in mind for some of us in early days there were no cert cables to speak off. then we got a 1ft one, and 1m then 2m and slowly we have got to the point of even having 30ft ones which is great however if need 10m ie 32ft or more there are still no certified labelled cables as yet so have to look at other options ...

 

and to be fair and its certainly been my experience that 2m and under its really no need for a certified cable, anything high speed does indeed work. ive tested this on multiple brand players but ofcourse on my av processor/projector combo and others might find otherwise ! 

 

31 minutes ago, p.laver said:

I've decided to put my Oppo less than 5 meters from the JVC with a new HDMI Certified Cable. Now I don't have any issues.

Its something i'll always suggest to people. and parking the gear at projector end of things can always be an option for some. but I guess not always feasible for people. for me i have my gear other end of room to projector and no ways getting within 5m of it or be tripping over the stuff ! but yeah where possible... definitely easier way to go. park the projector on top of the equipment rack at rear of room if need be.

 

in incase soon hopefully as I indicated we do breach the 10m barrier and mono price seem to be steadily progressing in length so hopefully not too long and we have what are premium certified cables at affordable price and peace of mind  

[cwt]

17 hours ago, drteflon said:

Thanks everyone. Interesting discussion. Did try the 4K settings in the advanced menu as well and no love.

Worth a try   I can say that my CXA 5100 has a 10m wireworld chroma 6 [not the latest 7] hdmi with ethernet going to my pana EX780  that does 4k24p HDR10 no problem ; 60p don't have that as a source. Its not one of the exxy models like the starlights so if you can find a dealer who has a no question return policy its another option . btw its only on mode 2 so if yours has the same circuitry It should be fine , My ethernet cable is running of the ARC hdmi 1 out not the hdmi2 out as the ethernet separates some edid signals from others which may help with isolation I once read ; don't ask me where  ..

[drteflon]

I thought I should give an update to complete this thread. As per Al's comment the full fat Oppo menu didn't work with the comsol cable either. Anyway the Ruipro arrived from Ezyhd today and perfecto, everything now works! Very happy with the outcome and thanks for everyone's input especially @Hazel30.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by drteflon

[EZYHD]

On 31/07/2018 at 9:08 PM, al said:

of course by the time it comes out...likely cables required for hdmi 2.1 will be needed

 

Have just been advised Ruipro are working on a new HDMI Fibre cable to meet the demands on version 2.1 for later on.
And pleased to hear of the Ruipro success above.

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by EZYHD

[Hazel30]

I thought I should give an update to complete this thread. As per Al's comment the full fat Oppo menu didn't work with the comsol cable either. Anyway the Ruipro arrived from Ezyhd today and perfecto, everything now works! Very happy with the outcome and thanks for everyone's input especially [mention=194671]Hazel30[/mention].
 
 

Awesome drteflon!
No worries...Glad to be able to help. [emoji1303]

[dreamz]

How much is the ruipro 10m? Recently installed a mates HT with jvc x5900, the hdmi cable
Run was already in the ceiling looks like the cable bandwidth is not enough, might try the officeworks comsol first.