Can I use two AVR's?

[Jaffa the Great]

I apologize if this topic has been covered recently. 

Is it possible to run one 2.1 out of one AVR and 5.1 out of the other. I have 2 Marantz AVR's one 100 wpc and the other 50 wpc I want to use the 100 wpc for 2.1 and the 50 wpc for 2.1. My understanding is that you can split the pair and the 100 wpc AVR can be the mains AVR. A friend told me in the day it was a simple switch to split the channels from 2.1 to 5.1. using two AVR's. 

The reason being is again it's my understanding that when in 2.1 mode is being used the remaining channels are still drawing power minimising the possible maximum output of the 2 speakers being used. 

I'm trying to gain more db output from my mains. My current set up max's out the main speakers at under 84db metered. I have all the speaker levels close to maximum so can't get anymore out of the 100 wpc AVR.

Thanks in advance!!

[Snoopy8]

I am a bit confused. Are trying to use the more powerful AVR to drive the mains and the less powerful for the rest?  If so,

 

player -> hdmi -> less power AVR -> pre out L&R -> more power AVR -> mains

 

Less power AVR -> centre, surrounds, sub

 

[swervyn]

Thought of doing this once previously, problem was my less power AVR had no pre-outs

[sakabatou]

13 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

I am a bit confused. Are trying to use the more powerful AVR to drive the mains and the less powerful for the rest?  If so,

 

player -> hdmi -> less power AVR -> pre out L&R -> more power AVR -> mains

 

Less power AVR -> centre, surrounds, sub

 

Although for this setup, this will only be possible if your less powerful AVR has multichannel pre-outs, which unfortunately are often dropped for cheaper models.

If The more powerful AVR has them, you can reverse

[Jaffa the Great]

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

I am a bit confused.

Sorry about that, but it's the other way around I want to use my SR5012/100 wpc for 2.1 and NR1508/50wpc for 5.1

[Jaffa the Great]

1 hour ago, swervyn said:

Thought of doing this once previously, problem was my less power AVR had no pre-outs

My SR5012 has multi channel pre out but my NR1508 doesn't.

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, Jaffa the Great said:

My current set up max's out the main speakers at under 84db metered

Seems like something is wrong.... 100w (or even 50w, or 25w) should make a lot more than 84dB, even on very very inefficient speakers.

[Jaffa the Great]

1 hour ago, sakabatou said:

Although for this setup, this will only be possible if your less powerful AVR has multichannel pre-outs, which unfortunately are often dropped for cheaper models.

If The more powerful AVR has them, you can reverse

So I'm aware of this now and the SR5012 being the one with the most power has the multi channel preouts

[Malu3067]

“The reason being is again it's my understanding that when in 2.1 mode is being used the remaining channels are still drawing power minimising the possible maximum output of the 2 speakers being used. “

I understand it depends on the amp design. I believe many AVR’s share channels across amps rather than have discrete amps per channel, particularly for the surround channels. If they are shared removing the load for the surrounds might indeed give you more power.

I have tried something similar to what you are trying where I incorporated external power amps for my surrounds while I definitely had improved power output I found that the spatial separation of the channels suffered a bit. I put that down to perhaps a timing issue between the main amp and my power amp. I messed around to try and fix it but ended up going back to just using my AVR.

[Jaffa the Great]

4 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Seems like something is wrong...

Agreed, this is why I'm constantly questioning my outputs and I use 4 x Klipschs R28f's which are I believe quite efficient speakers. 

[Jaffa the Great]

7 minutes ago, Malu3067 said:

I have tried something similar to what you are trying where I incorporated external power amps for my surrounds while I definitely had improved power output I found that the spatial separation of the channels suffered a bit. I put that down to perhaps a timing issue between the main amp and my power amp. I messed around to try and fix it but ended up going back to just using my AVR.

Yes others have recommended amps and integrated amps but I still go back to the main issue I believe that is the speakers are not getting the maximum juice they required to get to 98db. 

[Malu3067]

Agreed, this is why I'm constantly questioning my outputs and I use 4 x Klipschs R28f's which are I believe quite efficient speakers. 

Just wondering do you have a friend you could borrow a different AVR from to see if you get better performance? It may help isolate the problem.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

OK, here's the dirty little secret hardly anyone mentions:

 

The human ear does not respond in a linear fashion to sound pressure levels (SPLs). To a achieve a subjective doubling in SPL, you require TEN TIMES the power. If you have 100 Watts now and you want a significant increase in SPL, then you need 1,000 Watts. Assuming your speakers can cope, of course. 

 

Naturally, the best way to achieve higher SPLs is to choose more efficient speakers. For instance:

 

A 98dB/W/m speaker operating on a 100 Watt amplifier will be as loud as an 88dB/W/m speaker operating on 1,000 Watts.

 

Your idea MIGHT provide a minuscule increase in SPL, but it is doubtful. Go for more efficient speakers.

[davewantsmoore]

13 minutes ago, Jaffa the Great said:

Agreed, this is why I'm constantly questioning my outputs and I use 4 x Klipschs R28f's which are I believe quite efficient speakers. 

Oh.   The something is definitely quite wrong.   To make ~84dB noise with your speakers should take ~ 0.05 watt  (zero point zero five!!!!!) ..... ie. a small fraction of 1% of your amp rated power.

 

Either your amp is broken, or you have it setup wrong.    I suggest focus on this, rather than the question you are asking (how to add more amplifiers).

 

3 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Go for more efficient speakers.

He already HAS 98dB/w speakers.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just now, davewantsmoore said:

Oh.   The something is definitely quite wrong.   To make ~84dB noise with your speakers should take ~ 0.05 watt  (zero point zero five!!!!!) ..... ie. a small fraction of 1% of your amp rated power.

 

Either your amp is broken, or you have it setup wrong.    I suggest focus on this, rather than the question you are asking (how to add more amplifiers).

 

He already HAS 98dB/w speakers.

YIKES! Then you are correct, in that something else is seriously wrong. I should not have skipped subsequent posts.

[musicmc]

Sounds to me like low input gain.

Would explore the possibility that the source unit output is a mis match with power amp input.

 

 

[davewantsmoore]

19 minutes ago, Jaffa the Great said:

Yes others have recommended amps and integrated amps but I still go back to the main issue I believe that is the speakers are not getting the maximum juice they required to get to 98db. 

Any recommendation to change amplifiers (unless it is "your existing amp is broken, replace it") has misunderstood your issue.

 

You have 98dB/w speaker.   If are getting 84dB.   This means you are applying a very small fraction of 1w power.

 

Either your amplifier is broken or misconfigured.... or there could be a problem with (both of?!?!) your speakers (unlikely). 

[davewantsmoore]

2 minutes ago, musicmc said:

Would explore the possibility that the source unit output is a mis match with power amp input.

Yes... or this.

 

What input is being fed to the AVR?   It might be very low.

[musicmc]

@davewantsmoore

would likely be input or as you suggest "config. issues"

 

lowest common denominator normally the speakers would perform properly at 1w of nominal power