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I really don't understand the vagueness of the discussion of the legalities of the power cables in question here.

It's not enough for the manufacturer or an electrical engineer to say, "they comply".

Unless they've been submitted, issued and stamped with appropriate certification, then they do not comply.

It does not matter which plugs, types of cable, terminations (that may have individually been approved) are used.
The assembly needs to be certified. I don't know if these have or haven't been. But the law is very clear on this.

 

There was a case last year with a Sydney retailer who had to recall and refund over 20 very expensive Synergistic Research cables that were found to be not compliant with Australian electrical safety compliance. Were they safe? Of course! Were they certified in AUSTRALIA? No. Are they allowed to be sold in AUSTRALIA? No.

This is all despite the manufacturer telling Australian customers (and the distributor at the time) when they enquired that they were in fact compliant for sale in Australia.

 

It's really simple. Any power cable sold in Australia will have a compliance number stamped on it.
If it does not have that, it IS NOT permitted to be sold, legally, within Australia.

 

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to touch the manufacturing or distribution of power cables in Australia.

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Hmmm--  Can't comment on the Power cable issue/legal/etc--but just touching on Mike's Speaker cable anomaly with the Grandinote

 

I can also vouch for Mikes diligence and expertise with his products--his cable seems similar design to my friend David Magnan's ( Ribbon)

 

I've used the latter in many configurations over the last 30 years--tube/ ClassD/ Class A/B plus myriad of Speaker types

 

Ner a Glitch--methinks this Grandinote is /could be the problem--wonder if it has similar output stage to say a Naim --they will spit the Dummy with some cables.

 

Willco

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Meh, I decided to not touch KLE products after reading their web site, so much marketing fluff, and some of which could be seen as misleading like what Pete referred to earlier, PureSilver branding, what a joke.

 

This is this consumers choice, others can decide for themselves.

 

@Willco agreed, it appears that the amps are the issue from the information in this thread.

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8 hours ago, Marc said:

I really don't understand the vagueness of the discussion of the legalities of the power cables in question here.

It's not enough for the manufacturer or an electrical engineer to say, "they comply".

Unless they've been submitted, issued and stamped with appropriate certification, then they do not comply.

It does not matter which plugs, types of cable, terminations (that may have individually been approved) are used.
The assembly needs to be certified. I don't know if these have or haven't been. But the law is very clear on this.

I apologize for any vagueness on my part.

 

I will state precisely the situation with Keith's cables, reconfirmed yesterday with both Keith ans Rawl99.

 

They have been certificated.  It cost Keith a whack of money.  Keith has a certificate of certification.   They comply.   I have a rather large number of ordinary cables just like I think most people have eg one I picked up at random with the part number KKS-10A.  I am sure whoever makes the KKS-10A has certification for it, just as Keith has for his.

 

I have no idea why anybody would be saying Keith does not have certification - why would it be doubted anymore than the KKS-10A after the maker has confirmed they have certification.

 

GMDB simply stated - 'I used to sell them before finding out that they were non-complying with Australian standards.'  

 

I have zero idea how he knows that - Keith says he has certification - I have no idea why you would doubt it.  If anyone does doubt it as a I have said before you can go to government agencies like the the office of fair trading with your evidence and let them take it from there.

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited by bhobba

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On 13/07/2018 at 12:01 PM, Full Range said:

As for Power cables I had some professionally made to suit my system 

@acg put me onto some industrial cable makers locally and went in that direction 

That of course is the other way power cables can be compliant - if they are built by a licenced electrician.   My father used to build his own extension chords all the time for himself and friends.  He was a licenced electrician.   So unless the law has changed that is legal as well.

 

Thanks

Bill

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Edited by bhobba

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5 minutes ago, bhobba said:

I apologize for any vagueness on my part.

 

I will state precisely the situation with Keith's cables, reconfirmed yesterday with both Keith ans Rawl99.

 

They have been certificated.  It cost Keith a whack of money.  Keith has a certificate of certification.   They comply.   I have a rather large number of ordinary cables just like I think most people have eg one I picked up at random with the part number KKS-10A.  I am sure whoever makes the KKS-10A has certification for it, just as Keith has for his.

 

I have no idea why anybody would be saying Keith does not have certification - why would it be doubted anymore than the KKS-10A after the maker has confirmed they have certification.

 

GMDB simply stated - 'I used to sell them before finding out that they were non-complying with Australian standards.'  

 

I have zero idea how he knows that - Keith says he has certification - I have no idea why you would doubt it.  If anyone does doubt it as a I have said before you can go to government agencies like the the office of fair trading with your evidence and let them take it from there.

 

Thanks

Bill

Bhobba it was reported on SNA some time back - as others have posted on this thread - that the KLEI power cables did not have certification at a certain point in time.  When I sold them for KLEI I believe from what SNA members - with more knowledge than me about 240V issues - advised, and realised that I had sold the cables when there was no certification.  I apologised for doing so and offered a refund to customers who had bought a cable from me.  If certification now exists for the KLEI power cables that is great news and I expect that the certifications would be documented on the KLEI site. 

 

I will state what I have stated before:  SNA has been very credible in educating people about power cable issues and the need for those certifications to be established.  I have learnt a lot from what members have posted on these issues and stickies have been established for people new to this issue of power cords to learn quickly.  All my previous comments have been based on advice from SNA members and I have no reason to doubt that advice.

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1 minute ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Is that like an A major with extra sustain ?

Nah. It is the lost chord that I, and many other people, have been seeking for years:rofl:

Edited by rantan

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2 minutes ago, gmdb said:

Bhobba it was reported on SNA some time back - as others have posted on this thread - that the KLEI power cables did not have certification at a certain point in time. 

How do they know that?

 

As I have said many times - Keith, a professional engineer, and a licensed electrician have all told me otherwise.

 

I said very early on all this will degenerate into is each side retreating to their entrenched position.  I have no idea how to break it.  It will go nowhere.  BTW I am not going to take one of my cables apart or anything like that - they are simply too expensive for such an indulgence.

 

Thanks

Bill
 

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7 minutes ago, bhobba said:

How do they know that?

 

As I have said many times - Keith, a professional engineer, and a licensed electrician have all told me otherwise.

 

I said very early on all this will degenerate into is each side retreating to their entrenched position.  I have no idea how to break it.  It will go nowhere.  BTW I am not going to take one of my cables apart or anything like that - they are simply too expensive for such an indulgence.

 

Thanks

Bill
 

 

Hi Bill. I don't think this is a matter of sides.

 

In the past there are demonstrated examples of KLEI products not being as claimed and the company has nearly always been less-than-forthcoming when it comes to legitimate questions about its products.

Trust is earned and not assumed and to date, this company has not earned the trust of many people.

 

I do not wish this company any harm whatsoever, but my own and many others, dealings with them have been very ordinary indeed.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, bhobba said:

How do they know that?

 

As I have said many times - Keith, a professional engineer, and a licensed electrician have all told me otherwise.

 

I said very early on all this will degenerate into is each side retreating to their entrenched position.  I have no idea how to break it.  It will go nowhere.  BTW I am not going to take one of my cables apart or anything like that - they are simply too expensive for such an indulgence.

 

Thanks

Bill
 

Bhobba, please see Marc's comment on this thread above.  There are national and state databases that certifications should show on. 

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50 minutes ago, rantan said:

Nah. It is the lost chord that I, and many other people, have been seeking for years:rofl:

Good title for the next Indiana Jones movie.

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27 minutes ago, gmdb said:

Bhobba, please see Marc's comment on this thread above.  There are national and state databases that certifications should show on. 

 

That's exactly what I meant by certified - they are on the databases.   Keith specifically told me they were.  This is my last comment on it - they are fully compliant - either that or three people I know well have been telling me porkies.

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited by bhobba

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1 minute ago, bhobba said:

 

That's exactly what I meant by certified - they are on the databases.   Keith specifically told me they were.

 

Thanks

Bill

So you have not seen for yourself?

 

Hmm..can't find any certification noted on the site in regards to power cables, checked the Brochure and White Papers too.

 

If there are any sides here, It's Certification vs Non Certification

 

For myself it is also cost vs value, others can decide for themselves.

https://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/klei-harmony-banana/klei-classic-harmony-banana/

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40 minutes ago, Cafad said:

Good title for the next Indiana Jones movie.

There was also the Devil's Chord musos have talked about.  I thin k even Linda Ronstadt mentioned it once.  And I always just imagined Leadbelly standing at the crossroads with his guitar strapped on his back, looking down the forked path and deciding which one to take. 

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1 hour ago, bhobba said:

 

That's exactly what I meant by certified - they are on the databases.   Keith specifically told me they were.  This is my last comment on it - they are fully compliant - either that or three people I know well have been telling me porkies.

 

Thanks

Bill

Bhobba, don't worry, mate.  He told me that as well a long while back.  But if they are certified now, as I said before, that is good news.  And I would hope to see the certifications documented on the website. 

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2 hours ago, bhobba said:

 

 

GMDB simply stated - 'I used to sell them before finding out that they were non-complying with Australian standards.'  

 

I have zero idea how he knows that - Keith says he has certification - I have no idea why you would doubt it.  If anyone does doubt it as a I have said before you can go to government agencies like the the office of fair trading with your evidence and let them take it from there.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

Bill, if you had read the thread I linked to earlier, you would seen all of the relevant info and history in this regard.

 

Back when GMDB sold the cables, the Wonplug-manufactured plugs on the KLE cables were NOT approved. 

 

Note the lack of all approvals and markings on the plugs:

 

KLEI-01.jpg

 

 

 

On 6 June 2017, the plugs were finally approved - here's the link again:

 

 

This certification relates to the plugs only - not the entire cable assembly of course.

 

Assuming that the raw industrial cable is legal, this leaves the actual wiring to be addressed. 

 

The 'tear-down' in the above thread raises concerns regarding the actual wiring configuration not being to standard due to the way the screen is connected, and the different sizes of the grouped conductors due to following the 'Eichmann ratio' with a larger neutral conductor vs the active conductor. 

 

Of interest... here's a source of tested-and-tagged three-conductor cables using the KLEI connectors.

 

http://www.rkcable.com.au/RKCABLEklei.htm

 

I wonder if he's sourcing the plugs directly from China, or locally from KLEI?

 

The RKCABLE site also shows a pic of the KLEI plug with the approval markings (Wonlplug haven't been particularly innovative with their model number - it mimics the Furutech).

 

kleiau3112g.jpg

 

https://detail.en.china.cn/provide/p130429177.html

 

Edited by pete_mac

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Admin

I don't believe this thread is heading anywhere productive.

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