SUT Upgrade

[MattyW]

Was more referring to gmdb.... Unless you're in Brisbane also GeoffRoberts?

 

I may well source some more Aurealis Litz copper IC's to ensure best performance though I think I'll try a mix of Litz copper and Neotech UPOCC in the chain first

 

It will be interesting to find out how close the HM-3's are to the 7's. The HM-X are another I'd love to hear.

Edited September 23, 2018 by MattyW

[GeoffRoberts]

Was more referring to gmdb.... Unless you're in Brisbane also GeoffRoberts?
 
I may well source some more Aurealis Litz copper IC's to ensure best performance though I think I'll try a mix of Litz copper and Neotech UPOCC in the chain first [emoji4]
 
It will be interesting to find out how close the HM-3's are to the 7's. The HM-X are another I'd love to hear.

I’m in Sydney. It’s not often there’s more than one Geoff!

[Bell Ringer]

No load can't be adjusted on the ZYX, I have a ZYX cart as Geoff mentioned. 

 

[MattyW]

1 hour ago, GeoffRoberts said:

 

I’m in Sydney. It’s not often there’s more than one Geoff!

 

Aye, nowhere near as common as Matt

[andyr]

1 hour ago, Bell Ringer said:

No load can't be adjusted on the ZYX, I have a ZYX cart as Geoff mentioned.

 

Sorry, I missed that.

 

Presumably, load that the ZYX head amp offers is perfect for your ZYX cart.  The issue, though, is ... is the load which the ZYX offers ... the same load that Geoff's Ortofon sees, when it is connected to each of the SUTs (which is: phono stage input impedance / square of the turns ratio)?  And if the 2 SUTs being compared have different turns ratios - then that will automatically show a difference in sound, due to the different load supplied to the Ortofon.

 

Andy

 

[Heifetz]

On 22/9/2018 at 9:56 PM, andyr said:

Bob - are you interested in borrowing my (JFET-based) AKSA 'Paris' head amp to compare against your HM 7?

Hi Andy, I've been overseas for a few weeks and just returned last night,  so haven't been following SN. 

I won't have any time to do much listening or comparing over the next period. Need to 'reset' myself first 

Bob

[andyr]

9 hours ago, Heifetz said:

Hi Andy, I've been overseas for a few weeks and just returned last night,  so haven't been following SN. 

I won't have any time to do much listening or comparing over the next period. Need to 'reset' myself first 

Bob

You lucky fellow! 

 

NP - send me a PM when you have been 'reset'! 

 

I'm assuming that, with your 0.24mV Airy3 ... the HM 7 must be a 1:20 SUT?  If so then the cart is 'seeing' 118 ohms.  I can supply with the Paris, 100 ohms .. and 124 ohms ... and higher & lower - just so you can see how these values affect the Airy3's sound. 

 

(I'm still well under the 70 hours run-in - so I haven't started to experiment with loading values ... just kept it on 124 ohms.)

 

Andy

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by andyr

[MattyW]

Seems the HM-3 is more prone to hum than my previous Fidelity Research FRT-4. I swapped the RCA for the Aurealis shielded Neotech UPOCC and it dropped significantly though is still present.  I'm going to need to try a few different shielded cables it would seem.

 

I've not really had a good listen to it yet as I'm trying to sort out the low level hum first.

[GeoffRoberts]

Seems the HM-3 is more prone to hum than my previous Fidelity Research FRT-4. I swapped the RCA for the Aurealis shielded Neotech UPOCC and it dropped significantly though is still present.  I'm going to need to try a few different shielded cables it would seem.
 
I've not really had a good listen to it yet as I'm trying to sort out the low level hum first.

Have you tried moving it to a different position? Mine is silent.

[MattyW]

I've very limited space.  If I can figure out another way to move things around then maybe.  I'll try a few different interconnects and maybe some mu metal shielding.  I'll get it sorted one way or another

[MattyW]

Ah, changed too many components at once today. The hum isn't the SUT, though rather the Marantz M7 preamp a mate sent me Well,  not entirely the SUT. More testing required. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by MattyW

[MattyW]

Put the Schiit Saga back in and it is improved. Unfortunately I can't solve the hum in my main system with the Hashimoto HM-3 in there. Likewise it's just too much gain causing feedback issues. I also find that too much gain from a SUT decreases sound stage. My Fidelity Research FRT-4 SUT just kills it in this system. Zero hum, wide, natural sound stage.  Feeling some regret with my purchase presently.

 

I'll have to try it in my second system downstairs with my 0.12mv Phillips GP922 cart.

 

If worse than the Cinemag 1254 SUT in terms of hum then I think it will need to be rebuilt. Then I'll have to talk to Geoff at Aurealis about a new box to fit them inside rather than the transformers being visible, a rewire and maybe mu metal shielding. I've found that SUT seem to perform best when fully enclosed in a shielded metal box.

 

Wishing I'd just bought the transformers on their own right now.  A cheaper purchase. Maybe I could have stepped up to the HM-7 instead.

Edited October 4, 2018 by MattyW

[Bell Ringer]

Thanks to @GeoffRoberts for taking some time to play some tunes on his excellent system today. I was keen on hearing the Croft phono as it is on my shopping list of potential phonos.

 

We switched in my ZYX head amp which wasn't a good match with the cart compared to Geoff's Hashimoto, but I also borrowed @Viognier Ypsilon MC-16 which was lovely. Beautiful air and decay on the notes, no doubt aided by lots of Earl's tubey goodness.

 

Nice to meet you Geoff, that's a lovely system you are running.

 

[andyr]

1 hour ago, Bell Ringer said:

We switched in my ZYX head amp which wasn't a good match with the cart compared to Geoff's Hashimoto,

 

Sorry, BR - I'm curious to know why your ZYX head amp wasn't a good match with the cart?

 

Does this head amp have a fixed Zin?

 

Andy

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by andyr

[GeoffRoberts]

Thanks to [mention=153055]GeoffRoberts[/mention] for taking some time to play some tunes on his excellent system today. I was keen on hearing the Croft phono as it is on my shopping list of potential phonos.
 
We switched in my ZYX head amp which wasn't a good match with the cart compared to Geoff's Hashimoto, but I also borrowed [mention=120735]Viognier[/mention] Ypsilon MC-16 which was lovely. Beautiful air and decay on the notes, no doubt aided by lots of Earl's tubey goodness.
 
Nice to meet you Geoff, that's a lovely system you are running.
 

Thanks for dropping by with some nice records and gear.

It was nice to meet you and hear some new music.

[MattyW]

Ok, dropped over to Geoff's (Aurealis Audio) today with my HM-3 and the new HM-7 transformers. Seems that the chap who assembled it made some interesting choices wiring it up. The grounding at least will be redone. The work was very nice though.

 

Very much looking forward to getting both of these back once done.

[MattyW]

Got my new HM-7 back from Geoff.... OMFG this sounds good. Listening to Norah Jones Come Away with Me album and I could easily mistake this for live music.... And neither the SUT nor Neotech UPOCC RCA's have been burnt in yet!

 

Not only more detailed with a more open and expansive sound stage though it's more effortless and relaxed sounding. This is everything I hoped it would be and that it's not burned in yet means the best is yet to come. My vinyl rig has taken first place over digital again! 

 

One thing that has always annoyed me with this album in the past is some grain at the top end of Norah's voice. This is gone and it's now an absolute pleasure to listen to.

 

The HM-7 is definitely better than the HM-3. No trace of the brightness another SNA member reported. Geoff used a combination of Litz copper and Neotech UPOCC internal wiring which may or may not have something to do with it or it could very well have been system dependent. Just added body and richness to the sound as well as better resolution of detail.

 

Nowhere is this more apparent than the last track on side 1, Turn Me On, where with other SUT in place the break up would put my teeth on edge and is shown as added detail win her voice with the HM-7 

 

Loving it. This is spectacular.  It will be interesting to see what difference (if any) a Linear Power Supply makes on my turntable next. Then I think for all intents and purposes, I'm done 

 

The mild steel box has also had mu metal stuck to the top and sides as I was concerned about interference. Seems to have worked as there zero noise in the very same location that the HM-3's hummed like crazy. I still can't sit my preamp on top (or it hums) though it's very happy with the pre sitting beside it. Now to wait for my new to me Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 to replace the Schiit Saga

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by MattyW

[GeoffRoberts]

Got my new HM-7 back from Geoff.... OMFG this sounds good. Listening to Norah Jones Come Away with Me album and I could easily mistake this for live music.... And neither the SUT nor Neotech UPOCC RCA's have been burnt in yet!

 

Not only more detailed with a more open and expansive sound stage though it's more effortless and relaxed sounding. This is everything I hoped it would be and that it's not burned in yet means the best is yet to come. My vinyl rig has taken first place over digital again! 

 

One thing that has always annoyed me with this album in the past is some grain at the top end of Norah's voice. This is gone and it's now an absolute pleasure to listen to.

 

The HM-7 is definitely better than the HM-3. No trace of the brightness another SNA member reported. Geoff used a combination of Litz copper and Neotech UPOCC internal wiring which may or may not have something to do with it or it could very well have been system dependent. Just added body and richness to the sound as well as better resolution of detail.

 

Nowhere is this more apparent than the last track on side 1, Turn Me On, where with other SUT in place the break up would put my teeth on edge and is shown as added detail win her voice with the HM-7 

 

Loving it. This is spectacular.  It will be interesting to see what difference (if any) a Linear Power Supply makes on my turntable next. Then I think for all intents and purposes, I'm done [emoji6]

 

The mild steel box has also had mu metal stuck to the top and sides as I was concerned about interference. Seems to have worked as there zero noise in the very same location that the HM-3's hummed like crazy. I still can't sit my preamp on top (or it hums) though it's very happy with the pre sitting beside it. Now to wait for my new to me Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.0 to replace the Schiit Saga [emoji6]

 

 

Glad to hear it has worked out for you. My experience in the sound is similar to yours. There was no issue of graininess with my last sut, but certainly the openness and detail is what I hear.

[MattyW]

19 minutes ago, GeoffRoberts said:

 

Glad to hear it has worked out for you. My experience in the sound is similar to yours. There was no issue of graininess with my last sut, but certainly the openness and detail is what I hear.

 

Those Aurealis SUT utilising vintage Jensen transformers are wonderful,  sweet sounding units. I prefer them to Cinemags despite being less detailed. The Hashimoto combines the best of the Jensen and Cinemags and then adds depth, richness and sound stage.... Easily the best I've come across.

 

The HM-3 is nice,  though the 7 is a step up from it again. I'll still hang on to my Fidelity Research FRT-4 SUT for flexibility with certain carts. It has 4x gain settings. Not sure about my Cinemag 1254 SUT though. I've never liked it's sound signature. Almost sounds solid state.....

Edited December 22, 2018 by MattyW

[Guest gmdb]

2 hours ago, MattyW said:

Those Aurealis SUT utilising vintage Jensen transformers are wonderful,  sweet sounding units. I prefer them to Cinemags despite being less detailed. The Hashimoto combines the best of the Jensen and Cinemags and then adds depth, richness and sound stage.... Easily the best I've come across.

 

The HM-3 is nice,  though the 7 is a step up from it again. I'll still hang on to my Fidelity Research FRT-4 SUT for flexibility with certain carts. It has 4x gain settings. Not sure about my Cinemag 1254 SUT though. I've never liked it's sound signature. Almost sounds solid state.....

It was a pleasure to work with another pair of the H7s again.  I'd done a pair of these before and was stunned by how amazing they were.  Yes, they are expensive but the best MC transformers I've heard.  Another post on SNA said they were bright.  Yes, and No.  I test everything as I make it, and then go back and refine the ground wiring to eliminate any hum.  For the first 2 hours of testing the H7s did sound a touch bright,  but after that as I improved the ground wiring and tested again the brightness had gone.  I put this down to simply getting some music through them, and nothing to do with changing the ground wires - which was just eliminating hum. 

 

The 1254s are very neutral in their presentation.  I think the H7s are as well, but the H7s are more open in their sound.  

I think MC transformers have been around for long enough that the market for them is really the case of you get what you pay for.  

 

cheers

 

Geoff

 

 

 

[MattyW]

38 minutes ago, gmdb said:

It was a pleasure to work with another pair of the H7s again.  I'd done a pair of these before and was stunned by how amazing they were.  Yes, they are expensive but the best MC transformers I've heard.  Another post on SNA said they were bright.  Yes, and No.  I test everything as I make it, and then go back and refine the ground wiring to eliminate any hum.  For the first 2 hours of testing the H7s did sound a touch bright,  but after that as I improved the ground wiring and tested again the brightness had gone.  I put this down to simply getting some music through them, and nothing to do with changing the ground wires - which was just eliminating hum. 

 

The 1254s are very neutral in their presentation.  I think the H7s are as well, but the H7s are more open in their sound.  

I think MC transformers have been around for long enough that the market for them is really the case of you get what you pay for.  

 

cheers

 

Geoff

 

 

 

Yes,  I found the Cinemags a bit closed in though if I didn't already have the Fidelity Research FRT-4 SUT I'd probably have liked them more.

 

The FRT-4 is only slightly behind the HM-3's in terms of clarity and slightly on the warm side. The Hashimoto's are the only SUT I've heard that betters it in terms of sound quality. The FRT-4 though is unmatched in terms of flexibility.... 3x inputs,  4x gain levels and an MM bypass.  It's also the most hum resistant SUT I've ever come across.

 

I'd be happy to loan if you're interested though it may be easier to simply download the rips I have done with it from the NAS?