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ME850 mods designed by Art Vandelay


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36 minutes ago, MrRogers said:

I do trust you but you need to hear the ME50 Art did three years ago.

As far as I can remember I think it was an old ME75 that was done, with around 50% of the mods, and I believe that Scott had that for a while, and maybe Arty bought it back off a guy Scott sold it to?

I do also think Arty may have the biggest stash of ME poweramps around, he should call them his super fund.?

 

Cheers George 

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50 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

As far as I can remember I think it was an old ME75 that was done, with around 50% of the mods, and I believe that Scott had that for a while, and maybe Arty bought it back off a guy Scott sold it to?

I do also think Arty may have the biggest stash of ME poweramps around, he should call them his super fund.?

 

Cheers George 

 

That ME75 was fully modded and very nice, but doesn't have the dynamics of an 850. 

 

Ftr, something I'm working on at atm. close to zero NFB and low distortion. 

 

image.png.544433aebcd1e0dd1ca1b128aa56a41b.png

 

 

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Review of Georgehifi’s System & Artys ME Mods.

 

Context.

I've known George for many years and have listened to his system on a regular (approx monthly) basis for that entire time.

 

Me

I've had the good fortune to be exposed to a lot of system's over the last 30 years, both in Australia and overseas. I've written reviews for Australian In-Car magazine, Audio Esoterica and Soundstage Australia, as well as having a constant stream of gear through my door due to my inability to leave well enough alone …. So I believe I can describe what I hear reasonably well.

 

System.

Martin Logan Monolith.

ME850 x 2. One solely for the panels, one solely for the bass drivers.

Passive crossover of George's design and construction.

Lightspeed Attenuator (of course)

Linn CD12 CD/HDCD Player.

Cabling from Eichman and Apature.

Room - not enormous, but well damped and  with a large opening between the speakers through to another room.

 

Listening

This system has always had dynamics aplenty, along with solid bass down to the low 20Hz region. Being Electrostatic, it's always been transparent and linear. The bass drivers have been modded along with the bass enclosures and the bass reproduction is far superior to other Monoliths I've heard.

 

Additionally, George's ME850 amps have always been well looked after and the panel amplifier has been well biased into Class A. George will no doubt fill in the technical details and correct any errors I make here ....

 

What I was not expecting after the “Arty Mods” was the difference I heard. I've heard the bass mods in the Monoliths, via 15 or more different CD sources and Dacs and of course the superb CD12 on numerous occasions.

 

One of first tracks George cued up was an old Crosby, Stills and Nash track (minus Young - before he joined) which I've heard there before. Not the last word in recording or mixing perfection and definitely not up to modern standards.

But ye Gods! the improvements were far from subtle. Not restricted to any one frequency or area, the Arty Mods seem to have lifted the performance across the entire experience. It's not possible to point to one particular area of improvement, as we're talking here about a mature system that was already well sorted. Nothing stood out, yet everything stood out. There was a density and realism to the performance that was both scary and addictive. The harmony and separation from such an elderly recording were noticeably improved. Sade, Steely Dan and in particular Hans Theesink were absolute standouts. Theesinks chesty, deep and growling voice was just amazing. I could have stood up and walked into the soundstage to shake his hand. Likewise Doug Macleod's sock-clad foot tapping on the stage could be easily discerned and pointed out in time and space. With rhythms like those in Hall and Oates “Abandoned Luncheonette”, the improvements were noticeable in the the overall cohesion and presence of the track.

 

Emphasis was there when required, but dynamic swings were even more noticeable. Vocals were extremely realistic, with glottal and breathing sounds discernible but not erring too far to the analytical. Likewise on Sade's voice - the sense of reality was the most noticeable thing. With eyes closed, the singer was right there in the room at correct height and size. If the singers head turned during a passage, it was audible/visible and other performers were easily visualised and correctly placed in the soundstage of the overall performance.

 

The improvements are not just macro, they're micro as well. Musical cues to the venue are obvious and clear, even on less resolving recordings. Johnny Mathis is definitely not an “Audiophile staple”, especially in mono, but here it was a hell of a lot of fun and one could almost wax analytical about it, in true “Audiophile” fashion.

 

Ricky Lee Jones has always been a torture test for high frequencies and vocal clarity on any system, especially at high volume. On George's system in the past, if anywhere, this is where it could sometimes come close to stridency. Now, I think your ears would give out way before then. Piercing, dynamic, nasal yes, but very, very real and present. Even digging up hoary old 80’s production discs from Spandau Ballet couldn't trip up the Arty Mods on the ME850 (yes, we’re both old enough to recall Spandau Ballet …) It just made them fun, with soaring dynamic swing and very nice separation.

 

In the past, i've often categorised a system as either musical or technically accurate, but rarely both. This is both and then some. The closest descriptor I can come up with is “real”. If you like the music playing, you will simply love it on George's modded System. At high or low volume, it is completely full range. There's nothing missing that I could discern.

We simply couldn't trip it up and over the course of several hours, we went through many different styles, recordings and genres. Supertramp's “Some Things Remain The Same” has long been a favourite and is almost at the point of being retired due to repetition. On Georges System, on that day - it had a fitting send off. Vocal crescendos aplenty, coupled with low frequencies that sounded like Rocky putting his fist through a bass drum. What I call “bouncy bass” - where you can hear the strike, the note and the rebound all clearly. Midbass impact that hits you right in the sternum from 3m away. Decay that just goes on and on and on into absolute inky black silence, before the music blossoms out again.

 

Conclusion.

I could easily craft superlatives for several 1000 more words, but I won't - Because (if possible), you need to hear it for yourself.  Is this the best system I've heard? No. Because there is no “best”. But it's certainly in the top 5 best I've ever heard. Absolutely stunning, memorable and mesmerising and I'm looking forward to further sessions with anticipation.

Congratulations are in order for George, Arty and Peter Stein of ME Sound for their respective efforts.

If you ever have the chance, the time, resources and opportunity to have an ME Amplifier modified by Arty (Dave) don't hesitate.

If for some reason you aren't happy with it, well just get in touch with me - I'll happily  take it off your hands, since I foolishly sold my last ME amp just a few weeks ago ….doh !

Edited by Audionutz
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16 minutes ago, MrRogers said:

How about some “Arty Mods”  on the  Harman Citation XX Amplifier?

 

I would need to cast an eye over the design. It may or may not be possible to improve it.

 

With ME amplifiers the simplicity of the design and low feedback factor are positive attributes but at the same time it makes a few resistors highly critical to overall performance, and part of the modification is to batch test the replacement 5W film resistors with a high precision instrument so that they're matched to within 0.01%.  I think Peter did the same thing too but the film resistors are more temperature stable and also more stable over time. 

 

Of the ME amplifiers I've heard I'm of the view that the 850 is the sweet point in the range. It's dimensioned large enough to to provide more than enough voltage and current for modern speakers and nasty loads etc, and can sustain a class A region that's large enough to provide a magical disappearing act. I can also pick one up and walk around with it without risking a back injury.

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

 

I would need to cast an eye over the design. It may or may not be possible to improve it.

 

With ME amplifiers the simplicity of the design and low feedback factor are positive attributes but at the same time it makes a few resistors highly critical to overall performance, and part of the modification is to batch test the replacement 5W film resistors with a high precision instrument so that they're matched to within 0.01%.  I think Peter did the same thing too but the film resistors are more temperature stable and also more stable over time. 

 

Of the ME amplifiers I've heard I'm of the view that the 850 is the sweet point in the range. It's dimensioned large enough to to provide more than enough voltage and current for modern speakers and nasty loads etc, and can sustain a class A region that's large enough to provide a magical disappearing act. I can also pick one up and walk around with it without risking a back injury.

 

 

 

hi art,would there be any gain in doing the mods to a late model(aluminium chassis)ME 750.

stereo new 006.JPG

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Here is a list of the stuff I played for "Nutz" Scott that afternoon, should you wish to query him on what they sounded like?

Although there is no classical, it wasn't that kind of afternoon, I can vouch they are just as stunning to listen to as well. 

 

> Crosby Still Nash
> Supertramp
> Ricky Lee Jones
> Spandau Ballet
> John Lee Hooker

> Abandoned Luncheonette
> Sade
> Steely Dan
> Hans Theessink
> Doug Macleod
> Johnny Mathis

 

Cheers George
 

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2 minutes ago, ray4410 said:

hi art,would there be any gain in doing the mods to a late model(aluminium chassis)ME 750.

 

Yes, of course you can raise the bar substantially. 

 

Btw, I haven't seen a late 750 in the flesh but yours looks great.  

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29 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

Here is a list of the stuff I played for "Nutz" Scott that afternoon, should you wish to query him on what they sounded like?

Although there is no classical, it wasn't that kind of afternoon, I can vouch they are just as stunning to listen to as well. 

 

> Crosby Still Nash
> Supertramp
> Ricky Lee Jones
> Spandau Ballet
> John Lee Hooker

> Abandoned Luncheonette
> Sade
> Steely Dan
> Hans Theessink
> Doug Macleod
> Johnny Mathis

 

Cheers George
 

I will be back in Sydney this Sunday, definitely I will make my time available to drop in to your place to audition the system!  

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1 hour ago, frankn said:

Hi Arty,

A couple of years back you also had some updates in mind for the ME pre-amp - did you ever get to the point where you were happy with those?

regards. Frank 

 

Hi Frank, yes.

 

I replace a couple of resistors with constant current diodes for an extra level of regulation, as well as providing a means of accurately balancing the currents of the complementary stages which reduces distortion. I also modify the output stage current so that it's within class A region driving a 1K load.  There's also the servo cap upgrade which provides similar benefits in the power amps. 

 

I'm using a modded early ME25 in my system atm, which also includes a discrete shunt regulator. Sounds fantastic too.  

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10 minutes ago, MrRogers said:

 


Having heard Art’s mods, personally, I would still get a state of the “Art” inspection.
 

 

It’s already been “Art’fully” inspected & given the thumbs up - so stop nagging me ?

 

Cheers

 

’Nutz

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1 hour ago, Audionutz said:

It’s already been “Art’fully” inspected & given the thumbs up - so stop nagging me ?

 

Cheers

 

’Nutz

 

?

Probably best not to mess with anything that John Curl was involved with, unless sanctioned by the man himself.   

 

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On 05/07/2018 at 3:56 PM, Art Vandelay said:

?

Probably best not to mess with anything that John Curl was involved with, unless sanctioned by the man himself. 

John Curl, and Nelson Pass, all should bow when these names are spoken.

 http://duncansensei.com/dir/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/o-JAPANESE-BOWING-facebook-1024x512.jpg

 

Pass who also used collector instead of common emitter drive to the speakers, also with no global just local feedback, back in the 80's, as ME also uses, great minds think alike.

I don't know what the advantages are for collector v the common emitter speaker drive, maybe someone @Art Vandelay can explain?

 

Forgot, Arty said on another thread he's skiing this weekend, anyone one else wanna take a shot???

 

Cheers George

 

 

 

S2 thresholdS300-2-opto.gif

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