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egosbar

cooling fan for my onkyo is it needed

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Following on from the insights of the topic, "SOME IMMUTABLE LAWS OF THREADS",I suggest the following investigation be made.With no inputs to the amp turned on and with the volume at zero(speakers connected);leave the amplifier turned on for say 2 to 3 hours.After this quiescent running period investigate if the Onkyo is warm or is actually as hot as when it is seemingly cooking.If it is hot,then you do indeed have a problem and this can be due to several causes,faulty amplifier,misuse, speaker mismatch or even r.f. injected via the cables.The last point made is an attempt to resolve the issue,as while a fan would assist cooling the problem seems to relate to having chosen the wrong gear for the intended purpose.

funny you mentioned this as i left the amp on with music turned off and when i came home it was warm , definitely not hot but warm enough , is this a problem as i was surprised that it was as warm as it was with not much going on

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I think it's one constant party up there Van!

It never gets a chance to cool off.

haha i wouldnt say constant but when i have one i have one lol , which is a couple of times a month , got a beauty planned saturday night , again ill post some good pics of my bar and new juke i built and you will see why i like to party lol

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ok guys a lot of good advice but in a nutshell are we all agreed that the technic speakers were not good enough for the power of the low end onkyo? and was most probably the cause of the problem not the amp and that a pair of ascersion timberwolves would easily handle what i need ,

i will be closely following my little sonies which are 110 w compared to 70 w for the technics

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ok guys a lot of good advice but in a nutshell are we all agreed that the technic speakers were not good enough for the power of the low end onkyo? and was most probably the cause of the problem not the amp and that a pair of ascersion timberwolves would easily handle what i need ,

i will be closely following my little sonies which are 110 w compared to 70 w for the technics

There are a few things you should note at this point:

* Amplifier power ratings (from reputable manufacturers) are able to be taken at face value. IE: If a manufacturer claims the amp can deliver 65 Watts per channel, then you can expect the amp to be able to deliver AT LEAST 65 Watts/channel.

* Speaker power ratings are a completely different kettle of fish. Speaker manufacturers (even well respected ones) often pluck a number from thin air and apply it to their products. Sometimes, they are more scientific in their approach. As a VERY rough generalisation, manufacturers consider a peak to average raito of 10dB as a maximum for their speakers. In simple terms, that means a speaker rated for 70 Watts will need to be able to handle 7 Watts of continuous, long term power. If the owner operates those speakers at high levels (clipping), then it is easily possible to exceed those thermal power ratings.

* A volume control is NOT a power control. A volume control is like an accelerator pedal in a car. The speed of the car is not directly controlled by the accelerator. All the accelerator pedal does, is to control the amount of fuel reaching the cylinders. The speed of the car is governed by a range of factors, that include: The terrain, the gearing, whether brakes are applied, the air density, the amount of fuel reaching the cylinders, the type of fuel and so on. Same deal with a volume control. It ive easily possible for an amplifier to reach maximum output level with the volume control set at 50%, or less.

As has been suggested previously, you should be looking to consider the purchase of some professional or semi-professional speakers, where thermal power ratings are much higher and efficiencies can often be higher too.

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First off, sorry if I came across as a little agressive - I didn't mean that at all.

can a single song mp3 recorded bad or whatever cause a speaker to blow because the song is corrupted or just plain wrong etc ?

Theoretically, no - but practically, yes. If there is excessive distortion, high energy content or low energy content and the volume is that little bit too loud then yes. A single track can induce this.

So the answer to your question is for all intents and purposes - YES.

oh by the way do you think a pair of adelaide ascertion timber wolves 2103tax as seen on their websit would handle the long sessions i inevitably will put them through?

In a word, no. I am not familiar with these speakers, but from the webiste they look like regular domestic speakers. As I explained in your other thread - driving an amp too hard will cause clipping and this in turn will blow up speakers. You may be surprised to learn that it is actually easier to blow up speakers with a low-powered amp than it is with a high-powered amp. REASON: Because it is easier to drive a low powered amp into clipping.

So there are a few things to consider.

* Getting a speaker with a higher watt rating will not make it harder to blow up

* A higher powered amplifier may help in preventing this as it will be less likely to clip

* A wattage rating is not directly relevant to actual power at a point in time. Music ebbs and flows - the watt delivery of your amplifier (even when you are pushing it) may be in the order of 5-10 watts. It is the peaks that will push it over it's limit into clipping.

* All speakers are designed for a certain frequency spectrum composition. A single track (if it is excessively composed of one or the other) can upset this balance and all specs go out the window.

So, where does that leave you? If you want sustained high level operation (and the ability for your equipment to stand up to the occasional drunk person doing something that they perhaps in a more sober state would not otherwise intend!!) you're going to need to take a two-pronged approach.

* High power - an amplifier which is more stable, and with higher power delivery than the Onkyo will be essential

* More durable speakers - Such as professional speakers from Mackie/RAMSA/JBL. Even Yamaha make some cheaper PA speakers. These speakers will be more efficient (meaning they'll go louder for a given wattage input than most home audio speakers) and are able to stand up to more abuse.

You may be able to attack both of these by buying some amplified PA speakers. JBL for instance - have a line with built in Crown amplification. Then the only thing you'll have to worry about is your hearing!

But really - home audio speakers are designed for finesse, not raw power. That's why you won't find that sort of stuff on the dance floor of your local nightclub. It is simply not designed for it.

Right now, you're thrashing your nice, plush Rolls Royce on the race track and wondering why it won't last the distance. By suggesting the Adelaide speakers you're asking if a newer Rolls Royce might do the trick. I'm suggesting you trade it in for a Ferrari which may not be as comfortable and refined, but is more suited to the task of being thrashed on a race track!

i will post some pics in the next few days im really happy and proud of what i have achieved in a few days work and cant wait until i finish

I eagerly await your pics - everyone loves pics!!

Edited by amey01

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Have a look at this:

http://www.allansmusic.com.au/prod/63943/Mackie_SRM450_12_Active_Powered_PA_Speaker.aspx

From what you said - a pair of these should be LESS? than the Adelaide speakers (and they include amplifiers!! - ~$2,200).

You will, however, need to consider cables and volume control amongst other things. You may even be able to utilise your existing Onkyo as a preamp (if it has pre-outs).

Edited by amey01

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ok i guess we need to clarify a little more , im definitely not running a disco but i like to play for long periods , again it is not ear splitting sound , i had no problem playing exactly the same way as i am now with the sonies over the last 5 years with a jvc amp that everyone i ask suggest the onkyo is a better one for sure , and bfore that i had a pretty cheap surround sound system about 500 bucks for the lot cant remember now off hand what brand but it wasnt high end , i played this exactly the same as im playing now no different and had no problems at all with any speakers blowing etc

i do hope it is the speakers themselves as they were old around 20 years old although they sat in a shed for the last ten or so

the warranty on the adelaide speakers is 5 years will htat cover from a amp clipping mp3 music

can i get somjething i can run in line to my speakers so that if clippping occurs my speakers trip etc

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I don't think that the warranty will cover the speakers from a bad signal input from your amp.

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ok i guess we need to clarify a little more , im definitely not running a disco but i like to play for long periods , again it is not ear splitting sound , i had no problem playing exactly the same way as i am now with the sonies over the last 5 years with a jvc amp that everyone i ask suggest the onkyo is a better one for sure , and bfore that i had a pretty cheap surround sound system about 500 bucks for the lot cant remember now off hand what brand but it wasnt high end , i played this exactly the same as im playing now no different and had no problems at all with any speakers blowing etc

i do hope it is the speakers themselves as they were old around 20 years old although they sat in a shed for the last ten or so

the warranty on the adelaide speakers is 5 years will htat cover from a amp clipping mp3 music

can i get somjething i can run in line to my speakers so that if clippping occurs my speakers trip etc

Maybe those speakers were a little more sensitive being that old. But I wouldn't expect so.

Regardless, the warranty on the Adelaides will mean nothing if the speakers have been overdriven. The result of feeding your speakers a signal from a clipping amplifier is a burnt out voice coil and that is very VERY easy to see. It won't be covered by warranty.

As for something you can run in-line - I don't know. Sorry. But regardless - it will destroy sound quality so I wouldn't recommend it.

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Might be better off with a PA system!

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i think ill stick to the sonies for a while and see how they go , my juke will have a volume control (griffin powermate) so i can have that on max 100 then set my amp at max 50 w hich is loud enough and i hope wont cause a problem , that way i can turn the volume down to zero on the juke and back up to 100 max and it will still be only on 50 on the amp

i am also going to mount it high above the juke where you cant touch it , so it will have plenty of breathing room and i think it should be ok as ive never had a problem before , i guess time will tell , will onkyo be liable for speakers that have blown from a faulty amp , i may get a better amp from all this if there is a manufacture problem

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I have an Onkyo TX-NR807 which runs pretty hot. I have just bought an ANTEC Av cooler. It works great. It draws out the heat from the top of the unit and blows it out the back Itis very quiet. It only cost $100.

Give it a go. I can highly recommend it.

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will onkyo be liable for speakers that have blown from a faulty amp , i may get a better amp from all this if there is a manufacture problem

They should be - but only if there is a proven manufacturing problem with the amp. Possible, but eminently unlikely.

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ill take some pics this arvo sometime i hope my daughter has my memory card out of my good camera so i have to wait until i see her

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ok gabe the little sonies a workout last night , nothing too loud but loud enough , after about five hours they started to sound crap i immediately turned of the amp , the amp was pretty cool in its new location so it was having no problems pushing the sound , i left it for about five minutes turned the music on again and played for another few hours without a problem

im not sure what speaker wire im running as it came with the surround sound system , looks pretty flimsy and has no negative positive on it either cable ,

can speaker wire cause this?

another thing a mate mentioned whether right or wrong im not sure but he said your better off running the volume from the souce (computer) at around 50 percent no more and then using the amps volume , i was running it at 100 percent would thhis have any effect

really giving me the shits now as i never had a problem for the last 10 years

it must be the amp but to happen after about the same playing time etc seems pretty strange

what tests should a tech do so i know what im talking about

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You could be overdriving the amp.

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ok gabe the little sonies a workout last night , nothing too loud but loud enough , after about five hours they started to sound crap i immediately turned of the amp , the amp was pretty cool in its new location so it was having no problems pushing the sound , i left it for about five minutes turned the music on again and played for another few hours without a problem

Define "crap".

im not sure what speaker wire im running as it came with the surround sound system , looks pretty flimsy and has no negative positive on it either cable ,

can speaker wire cause this?

Provided there are no shorts, no.

another thing a mate mentioned whether right or wrong im not sure but he said your better off running the volume from the souce (computer) at around 50 percent no more and then using the amps volume , i was running it at 100 percent would thhis have any effect

Please see my previous post about volume levels. The postion of the volume control has little to do with how much power an amplifier delivers. It is easily possible to obtain full output at (say) 30%. In that case, any more will just be pure distortion.

really giving me the shits now as i never had a problem for the last 10 years

it must be the amp but to happen after about the same playing time etc seems pretty strange

what tests should a tech do so i know what im talking about

You need to provide A LOT more detail that just using a single word (crap).

As has been suggested previously, you should be seriously considering professional speakers, as they can cope with long term, high power operation without damage.

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why are powered speakers relatively cheap , i can pick up an amp and some speakers for around 600-1000 ,

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im definitely considering pro speakers , got any recomendations for my budget say 1000-1500

i was going to go floor standers as mentioned , but the pro speakers that ive seen so far dont look that nice , so i will probably go smaller ones and mount them on the wall

piano black would go with my room

been looking for about an hour now and havent really found anything i like so far

pleasing to the eye is pretty important to me as they will be in my bar room

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oh crap means distorted , picked it up pretty much straight away and turned the amp off and as i said five minutes turned back on and ran fine for hours

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i might be able to go dearer as i think i can get wholesale through a friend of a freiend

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one of my freinds plays in a band occasianaly and has a amp mixer etc he plugs guitar in he also runs his computer music through it from his laptop and he said it tells you when clipping is occuring and he turns it down he said he only paid about 400 for it , not the set up i want as its to big and ugly but the clipping read out sounds good , why cant i get this for convensional speakers?

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