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Hi Everyone 

 

 

I have a benqw1060 projector a tad old and contrast ratio is only 5000:1 .

 

so far I have only ran it on a beige colour wall I was pretty impressed. Looking at screens seems to be my optimal screen size is 110inches. I was just wondering should I go a grey screen or a white screen. My room can be made really dark if I put the effort in. More times than not we will probably be watching movies at night anyway. What should I do go for white or grey. 

 

Can anyone comment on these ebay screens Visualax

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Visualax-110-Fixed-Frame-TV-Cinema-Entertainment-Projector-Screen/312073764302?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

Its not going to break the bank and I like the idea of fixed screen rather than motorised roll out. 

 

Edited by bfhoon1
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Does not matter whether it's day or night, grey will normally reject some of the light reflected back into it from walls, floor and ceiling. I went white, but sometimes wonder if I should have gone grey. 

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Not sure this will work but you could buy the 120" screen below.

LINK

Use it for a while to get used to the white. Then go get some grey paint and paint it. 

Then you might get a  very rough idea of the difference between white & grey screens. :)

 

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15 years ago if you had a digital PJ I would have said get a Grey screen to help with contrast, but even a digital PJ that is around 8-10 years old shouldn't need it.....stick with white.

 

The only thing you'll notice is if the lamp on your PJ has aged a lot, then your Whites [and everything else for that matter] will have a Yellow cast to them, which is somewhat hidden with a Grey screen, where it isn't with a White one.....the Yellow color cast can be lessened with calibration, but that's a whole different topic.

 

I'd be worrying more about my wall colour than screen colour if I were you, a Neutral Grey would probably be the easiest to live with and still have a worthwhile effect in giving your projected image impact

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I would, and did, choose a white screen for a darkened room. If I correctly recall my research before buying my screen, the only reason for a grey screen in a darkened room is if your projector is massively overpowered for the situation in hand.

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19 hours ago, Grant Slack said:

If I correctly recall my research before buying my screen, the only reason for a grey screen in a darkened room is if your projector is massively overpowered for the situation in hand.

Well that's not really correct. Grey typically with a 0.8 gain will adsorb some of the light that is reflected back onto it from the room improving contrast. With today's high powered - high output projectors, I think the case for it might be greater than ever because they have the output to overcome the 0.8 gain. If you have really excellent light control then the case for a grey screen diminishes.

Edited by Satanica
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A grey screen has no effect on "contrast ratio" what so ever, it just reflects less light from all sources, which means black and white level will drop by the same amount resulting in identical "contrast ratio".

A grey screen does lower black level, which I find useful, but at the expense of white level, which is fine by me as I don't like bright images.

 

If you want to reduce the effect of ambient light, or light reflected from room surfaces, you need an angular reflective screen which is going to be VERY expensive and totally un viable for use with a cheap projector due to cost. I don't expect you would want a screen that costs 3 times the price of your projector.

 

On 17/06/2018 at 6:50 PM, bfhoon1 said:

I have a benqw1060 projector a tad old and contrast ratio is only 5000:1 .

Thats just a number from a spec sheet which is total BS and has no relevance in actual use. Your DLP projector will struggle to achieve 1500:1 best case in a black painted bat cave,  even a $100,000 DLP three chip commercial cinema projector can't exceed 2000:1. DLP technology is fundamentally VERY limited for native contrast and there is no way around that.

 

In a normal living room without black walls, ceiling and floor, on screen contrast will be limited by room reflections to something more like 200:1 or less with ANY projector so room treatment is absolutely VITAL.

 

Simply painting your wall and ceiling a dark colour to reduce reflections makes a massive difference, but the room must still be dark and free of ambient light.

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When I was selling Screens and projectors (15 odd years ago) I got a 120 inch grey screen and didnt bother about white. Worked fine. Used the original JVC DLA and the best viewing time was always at night though. Lights out, Action!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seems like the contrast on the new projectors is so good the need for grey is less. 

Esp the JVC projectors, hope to get a X7900 or 9900 

 

If you can control the room lights and color (low reflection surroundings) then white is good. 

 

Studios and professionals all use the Stewart 100, If you can get your room to the industry standard then thats ideal if you have the power to back it up.

 

Now HDR is here it seems about 25-35ft lambert is the goal 

Hard on big screens Over 130" so maybe 1.3gain white screens help to close the gap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Aaronrotary said:

Seems like the contrast on the new projectors is so good the need for grey is less. 

Esp the JVC projectors, hope to get a X7900 or 9900 

I can tell you this, I know people with 7-9000 series jvc they don’t bother running masking anymore !

 

6 minutes ago, Aaronrotary said:

Now HDR is here it seems about 25-35ft lambert is the goal 

Hard on big screens Over 130" so maybe 1.3gain white screens help to close the gap.

 

Yes if can manage 30FL or 100 nits will see some gains with HDR. Many of us have been benefiting with this last 2+ years since launch of UHD. Don’t forget WCG as well. Colour volume is where it’s at !

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Yeah what ive seen in UHD is amazing

 

My guy over here has the JVC LTD-2 on a Screen innovations 1.3 gain 110"16/9 on demo.

  

Think they were getting high 20's of light from that combo. 

 

The color, light and depth is the picture Ive always dreamed of. 

Pitty the LTD20 is sold but i'll get a similar result with the X7/9900 

 

I really want a 140"scope 

but no sure the JVC / Sony units are powerful to get 20-30ft when zoomed out

Lens are expensive 

 

Would be good to have a 3000lm X9900 for about $17K bring that on. 

 

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On 03/07/2018 at 3:52 PM, Aaronrotary said:

Seems like the contrast on the new projectors is so good the need for grey is less. 

As I said above, a grey screen DOES NOT improve contrast, it just makes the entire picture dimmer.

 

On 03/07/2018 at 3:52 PM, Aaronrotary said:

Esp the JVC projectors, hope to get a X7900 or 9900 

How did you come top that conclusion? The contrast ratio of JVC projectors plateaued in 2015 with the X900 and has not improved since. Other brands have not improved either.

The old X700 and X900 also have a lower black level then the X7900 and X9900 because the contrast ratio is the same yet the lamp is not as bright.

Running an X7900 or X9900 in high power mode, which is required for HDR video source, results in a higher black level then a 4 year on JVC. What you gain in white level is lost in black level.

 

On 03/07/2018 at 3:52 PM, Aaronrotary said:

If you can control the room lights and color (low reflection surroundings) then white is good. 

 

If the room is not dark black level and apparent contrast will be poor with a white or grey screen. Only an angular reflective screen like a Black Diamond, or similar, can improve contrast and black level in a non dark room, BUT such screens only reject ambient light coming in from specific angles, typically from above and below the screen.

 

On 03/07/2018 at 3:52 PM, Aaronrotary said:

Now HDR is here it seems about 25-35ft lambert is the goal 

25-35ftl is standard dynamic range NOT HDR, sorry but thats the way it is, like it or not. A higher peak white level for "HDR" results in higher black level, thats a compromise some may find attractive and others not.

 

 

Edited by Owen
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You'll find there is no HDR standard for Projection 

 

There is a SDR target

Cinema SDR goal is to run 14-20ft 

 

HOWEVER 

 

There are some pretty big names that are weighing in on the what they feel works. 

 

Dolby Vision Cinemas in the USA run around 30-35Ft

 

Barco (who build the most Commercial / engineering projectors inc even IMAX projectors)

are recommending 40ft and NO Black / grey screens.

(non white if needing to limit overall light - Stewart do a model which is Matt100 color perfect and takes out some light return - nice to have that problem but some big BARCO units are so powerful, a home screen size small = this can be required)   

 

We recently installed a BARCO Balder Laser Scope 4K and 40ft was our advise from Barco Engineering. 

 

IMAX Dual projection screens are about 25ft

(*Melbourne IMAX the biggest in the world and its insane the experience) 

 

If you have seen 30ft lamberts of light on a large format / immersive projection screen - in a complete dark environment - its a **** load of light.

(more than IMAX and about twice as much as a Hoyts VMAX etc ) 

 

Without an ambient light / back light the dynamic swings become too uncomfortable to the human eye/brain.  

Hence the SDR goal <20ft 

 

Large format / projection is a different beast to a TV.  

 

This means 

 

30-40ft lamberts with HDR that controls the overall balance/swing of light - indeed produces stunning results. 


We have not been doing ANSI contrast to our calibrations - we have added this to our measurements moving forward, inc Light return based on screen size. 

This will help to design target returns for future, and verify product quality.  

 

Having run with JVC for about 9 years we have seen consistant improvements 

 

Our current demo system has run X9500, X9900 and the LTD20 (lucky us. one of 20 made) 

 

Its pretty clear to me JVC know how to make a better picture and it largely rests on the dynamic range

which is the ability of the ENTIRE projection system, not just lamp, iris, optics, chip sets processing etc to produce this.  

 

 WHATS GREAT 

 

The show - Altered Carbon -  on Netflix via APTV and JVC TLTD20 projector/ 1.3 gain SI 110"screen = 28ft 

in black room - no reflections.

 

Responded to

 

The EOTF (HDR tracking) of the Dolby vision signal! 

MAx light 4000 / Averge 1000nit mastering 

  

Looks bloody fantastic, complete game changer.  Im watching the whole season again (last time in HD) 

 

SO

 

The goal then must be',  not JUST light output (as once you hit 40ft your pretty much done with light)

BUT also Black levels (as always) 

 

Hence IMAX have developed the new primary color Laser Projection

by not splitting color first and re grouping later the color is independent at the Chip set 

this results in better Pixel/Pixel contrast. 

 

Ist the black levels that make the JVC soooo good, they have killer contrast thanks the polarisation tricks on the LCOS Panels =  DILA.  

The deep black level with about 30ft of light naxt the picture to another level.  

Every demo has proven anyone to say WOW!!! 

Even GT sport from the PS4 looks remarkable. 

 

 

I'm not surprised that few people have seen an impressive Ultra HD projection system.  

 

A- There are no Dolby Vision cinemas in AU to see yet 

In the Home > 

 

B- lack the light

C-- lack of black level detail (ie Epson LCD ) 

D- Most systems are no calibrated to HD let alone UHD/HDR 

E- Source to Display issues may block the full UHD content 

F- The room is not designed right ie- BLACK and no reflections! 

 

Get all of the above right - and UHD /HDR make projection pictures  what we have only dreamed about 5 years ago....   

 

Hope this helps give everyone a better guide to chase and what ever you do paint the room dark! 

 

Cheers 

Scott 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Yes white screen. 

 

Slightly OT but I watched the new Mission Impossible movie at IMAX Melbourne and the screen was black which surprised me. The cinema is very good and so was the movie. 

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  • 5 months later...

For anyone interested in this topic here's an 'enlightening'  video of a half white half 'grey' screen (grey meaning Ambient Light Rejecting).  Pretty good results.

 

Its in a lit room but it also improves things in a dark room due to the rejection of the light reflected off the ceiling and walls from the screen itself.

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
25-35ftl is standard dynamic range NOT HDR, sorry but thats the way it is, like it or not. A higher peak white level for "HDR" results in higher black level, thats a compromise some may find attractive and others not.
 
 

Hi all,
I am looking at updating my screen, my rep at the local AV store has suggested the black Diamond, my room is all but a section at rear of room ceiling is black ( carpet, curtain and completely sealed from ambient light). Reading the blogs it raves how good it is in rooms completely opposite to my room regarding ambient light.
My question to the rep originally was if he knew much about HTPC and MADVR tone mapping frame by frame to try and achieve better contrast for HDR given my projector (JVC x9900) struggles in the nits area that is when he suggested the black diamond as he knows my limitations with computers. The screen is damn expensive. Would I be wasting my money or be better served with a different scenario?
Look forward to some suggestions from you all.

Thank you in advance.
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For your room, which has complete ambient light control and very good reflection control, an ambient light rejecting (angular reflective) screen like the Black Diamond makes no sense and is a waste of cash IMHO..

The Black Diamond rejects light coming in from above and below the screen, from ceiling and floor. If the ceiling, especially near the screen is painted a dark colour, preferably mat black, and the floor is dark/black as well you have already achieved what the Black Diamond does.

 

Its much cheaper and more effective to make a bat cave than to use a ambient light rejecting screen, they should be reserved for rooms that are otherwise highly unsuitable for a projector. Such screens are also prone to off axis viewing issues and sparkles

 

MADVR's dynamic gamma re mapping is just an attempt to make HDR video more acceptable on a projector or other display that does not meet the HDR light output standards, and projectors don't come remotely close. You can get the same "look" using SDR video and not suffer from HDR's inherent inconsistencies by setting up a custom gamma map for SDR and running the projector lamp on high for SDR. This has the added benefit of giving a "HDR" look to everything you view, not just the pathetically small amount of "HDR" content available.

Edited by Owen
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6 hours ago, poppybob said:


Hi all,
I am looking at updating my screen, my rep at the local AV store has suggested the black Diamond, my room is all but a section at rear of room ceiling is black ( carpet, curtain and completely sealed from ambient light). Reading the blogs it raves how good it is in rooms completely opposite to my room regarding ambient light.
My question to the rep originally was if he knew much about HTPC and MADVR tone mapping frame by frame to try and achieve better contrast for HDR given my projector (JVC x9900) struggles in the nits area that is when he suggested the black diamond as he knows my limitations with computers. The screen is damn expensive. Would I be wasting my money or be better served with a different scenario?
Look forward to some suggestions from you all.

Thank you in advance.

I have no idea at all why you are looking at one of these screens. you are looking at two completely different things. one is tone mapping (done successfully various ways) another ambient light rejection (which you do not by sounds need)

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