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Kabra

11.2 Atmos receiver

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Hi all

 

So looking at the list below, what would be the main consideration when trying to pick one over the other. There are some slight price differences, but what factors would justify the price one way or the other?

·      Marantz SR8012 – RRP $5,740 

·      Integra DRX-R1.1 – RRP $5,295 

·      Onkyo TX-RZ3100 – RRP $4,499 

·      Denon AVR-X6400H – RRP $4,999 

 

Any other suggestions similar to these? 

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Look at the maximum power consumption for a real indication of available power, not manufacturer's claimed BS figures.

 

As a former Onkyo/Integra fanboi, I have to say their room equalisation nowadays is a bad joke based around penny pinching on processing power. Audyssey XT32 in the Denon and Marantz is light years ahead.

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something not right..

marantz/denon power consumption 750w+ integra 340w ?

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2 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

something not right..

marantz/denon power consumption 750w+ integra 340w ?

Seem to recall Integra/Onkyo have gone class D amplification in recent years, so ~90% efficiency vs ~70% efficiency for class A/B, but 340W still seems stingy.

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3 minutes ago, Quark said:

Seem to recall Integra/Onkyo have gone class D amplification in recent years, so ~90% efficiency vs ~70% efficiency for class A/B, but 340W still seems stingy.

even if class D you cant have more power claimed as output than what the power supply can deliver :D

 

340w even at 100% efficiency leaves nothing in reserve for dynamics

 

integra/onkyo/pioneer all the same crowd now and yep pretty weedy vs some of the grand daddy avrs they once made...

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2 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

something not right..

marantz/denon power consumption 750w+ integra 340w ?

the marantz quoted here is their flagship and even 750w is not a heck of a lot. they have had a lot more in their flagships. its a bit of a problem now with SO many channels of amplification they are trying to fit under the one hood, seems to me its now compromising in just how much power supply they can squeeze in...

 

there are plenty of power amps even budget ones with heck more in power supply. 

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28 minutes ago, :) al said:

there are plenty of power amps even budget ones with heck more in power supply. 

Any suggestions where I might start looking for a setup similarly priced? I've only had experience with AV receivers, not seperate processor/amps. 

 

My main concerns as someone with not a lot of experience would be firstly setup, and secondly user friendliness. Need to keep it simple for the whole family to use and enjoy :) 

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2 minutes ago, Kabra said:

Any suggestions where I might start looking for a setup similarly priced? I've only had experience with AV receivers, not seperate processor/amps. 

 

My main concerns as someone with not a lot of experience would be firstly setup, and secondly user friendliness. Need to keep it simple for the whole family to use and enjoy :) 

at the level of speakers looking at in the other thread kabra, personally as someone suggested I would partner up a 77 series av processor from marantz with rotel power amps always been great match for paradigms. 

 

if budget allows more go 88 series marantz. even a av8802a if can find one knocking around :) as possibly all sold out on run out. 

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What about the Anthem MRX1120?

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59 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said:

What about the Anthem MRX1120?

it rates a consumption of 570w tad lower than the marantz but uses a mix of class D on some chanels and which is a lot better than onkyo/integras 340w :)

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brand that is honest about power output Kabra [ specified into all channels driven] is NAD . If you want to try dirac for your room a T777V3 is another option ; though I would wait to see a few owners reviews to judge its reliability :)

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/receivers/nad-t-777-v3-av-surround-sound-receiver-review/

 

If 3 hdmi inputs are enough the 758v3 is cheaper . Both of these avr's have full 7.1.4 preouts to add power amps if wanted [ a sad decline in some makes lower lines] ; and doing that puts less strain on the internal amps :cool:

 

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few things to consider regarding required power and current...

1. model of the speakers you plan to driver with your amp

2. configuration (5.1 , 7.1 etc...)

3. how many subs if any

4. your room size

 

there's nice guide from @:) al describing expected db levels once you know your speaker type and positioning

if we consider your preferred speakers and room size including configuration than some of the options could be following

 

AVR-X6300/6400H (I would suggest to look for last year model with discount) driving surround sound only in 9.0 config

Stereo power amp driving your front speakers in 2.0 config from AVR line output

2x subs from AVR line output 

 

AVR-X4300/X4400H (I would suggest to look for last year model with discount) driving surround sound only in 7.0 config

Stereo power amp driving your front speakers in 2.0 config from AVR line output

Stereo power amp driving remaining surround speakers in 2.0 config from AVR line output

2x subs from AVR line output 

 

Why above suggestion? 

- main consumer of power and current are your front speakers, if you offload them from your AVR remaining power will be sufficient for rest of your surround/centre speakers

- your preferred prestige range of surround speakers are efficient and don't go below 100hz + not all of them will be consuming max power at the same time so claimed power of the Denon AVR should handle it with easy 

- in case of X4300/4400 AVR you can be more flexible with power amps and chose better amps for less money (difference of the price between 6XXX and 4XXX range) 

 

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On 11/06/2018 at 10:00 PM, :) al said:

at the level of speakers looking at in the other thread kabra, personally as someone suggested I would partner up a 77 series av processor from marantz with rotel power amps always been great match for paradigms.  

Sorry for my ignorance, but how would you set this up, whether it be 7.1 or 11.1 etc. 

 

@cwt and @kukynas have mentioned using a power amp with an AVR, which they have explained nicely for me (should've known the budget would get blown coming to this forum!).

 

However, when you use separates, do you need your power amp(s) to provide enough channels to supply the total number of speakers? I can't seem to find a lot of useful guides on this, and it seems you might need multiple amps to power 7-11 speakers in any given setup?

 

What are some examples of power amps suitable for surround sound HT? Can't find many examples of power amps over 7 channels besides the Rotel RMB1512 12 Channel which I'm not sure how the power specs compare to the receivers initially mentioned?

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8 minutes ago, Kabra said:

What are some examples of power amps suitable for surround sound HT? Can't find many examples of power amps over 7 channels besides the Rotel RMB1512 12 Channel which I'm not sure how the power specs compare to the receivers initially mentioned?

yes you just get the requisite number of amp channels to support the amount of speakers needed to power.

 

the 1512 looks like a commercial distribution amp, not something I would use. most people to do 11 channels tend to got a 7ch and a 5ch power amp and use as a combo.

 

and yes if budget doesnt stretch then you can also go avr and take 2 to 5 or 7 channels off it to reduce load by using a 2 to 5 to 7 channel amp with it. but have to be careful the avr itself can be configured to operate this way.  

 

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13 minutes ago, :) al said:

most people to do 11 channels tend to got a 7ch and a 5ch power amp and use as a combo.

oh boy, better get the wife started on a few shopping sprees before I ask any more questions here 

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So having a quick look around, is something like the Marantz SR7012 + Rotel RB1582/Emotiva XPA2/Marantz MM7025 going to produce a MUCH better result than the Marantz SR8012 alone, for about the same price or a few hundred dollars more? 

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43 minutes ago, Kabra said:

So having a quick look around, is something like the Marantz SR7012 + Rotel RB1582/Emotiva XPA2/Marantz MM7025 going to produce a MUCH better result than the Marantz SR8012 alone, for about the same price or a few hundred dollars more? 

it most probably will in 2 channel mode but from price perspective it seems to me still like overkill...

 

as mentioned above you can do better and cheaper if you combine your AVR with decent power amps, AVR as such especially its preamp stage gets older with new audio/video formats and its hardware is also limited where's power amps will be always the same (could get better over time of course) 

if your requirements are 11.2 or 7.2.4 than all you need is X4400H or SR6012 and 4 channel power amp next to it, here is one of them https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/product-page/nord-one-mp-nc250-2-5-channels … pricewise similar to SR7012 or X6400H and power wise better than SR8012

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@kukynas I'm starting to see you point here. So if the processing performed by the SR6012 vs SR7012 is similar enough (is it?), and at half the price, definitely better off getting a good 4ch power amp to pair with it. The Nord amp you linked looks very good and a great price. Would it be too powerful for the 25S surrounds which list a suitable power range of 15-180 watts?

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13 hours ago, Kabra said:

 

 

However, when you use separates, do you need your power amp(s) to provide enough channels to supply the total number of speakers? I can't seem to find a lot of useful guides on this, and it seems you might need multiple amps to power 7-11 speakers in any given setup?

 

What are some examples of power amps suitable for surround sound HT? Can't find many examples of power amps over 7 channels besides the Rotel RMB1512 12 Channel which I'm not sure how the power specs compare to the receivers initially mentioned?

I have a 6200 so a few generations behind the 6300/6400 mentioned. Very similar unit, but only has 9 channels of amplification (11 processing) the 6300/6400 have 11 channels of amplification.

 

Im running a 5.1.2 system, and two other zone in mono. I run the standard 5 speakers off a separate power amp (Emotiva XPA5) and the rest from the 6200. These amps are remarkably configurable, you can assign the internal amps in weird and wonderful ways, and through power amps into the mix as well. If you did want to go down the power amp for the main 5/7 channels, do that and just run the atmos 2/4 speakers off the AVR. But to save some coin, buy the ARV first and just use the internal amps for a while, see if you feel you need anything further. They are pretty good as is

 

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4 minutes ago, Johnny_Boy said:

If you did want to go down the power amp for the main 5/7 channels, do that and just run the atmos 2/4 speakers off the AVR

this is the right approach... as the main speakers are the ones (particularly front 3 but might as well add in the sides and rears if can) will benefit with the external power amp. the 4 height channels will be no bother for AVRs :)

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5 hours ago, Kabra said:

@kukynas I'm starting to see you point here. So if the processing performed by the SR6012 vs SR7012 is similar enough (is it?), and at half the price, definitely better off getting a good 4ch power amp to pair with it. The Nord amp you linked looks very good and a great price. Would it be too powerful for the 25S surrounds which list a suitable power range of 15-180 watts?

yes, they are similar enough and I wouldn't say too powerful you'll just end up with more power reserve for future upgrade whenever you decide...of course you can chose 125W version but 100 bucks saving isn't worth it I think? 

 

as @:) al and @Johnny_Boy pointed out you can use power amp for which ever channels you'd like so if i.e. center channel is more power hungry and more important then surround channels than you can use power amp for that instead

 

you can go even further (which I find again as overkill) and decide for 6 or even 8 channel power amp but price's growing and I'm not sure if you will benefit from it...

here is entire list you can chose from https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-one-hypex-mp-multichannel including custom made with combined 125W, 250W and 500W per channel

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Thanks for the advice and guidance everyone, appreciate it. I'll check back in once I've researched a bit more or pulled the trigger!

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Marantz Sr6012 don't have Auro3d support. If you are using an external power amp then, better to get the 6012 and a emotiva xpa 5 or elektra hd2 5. I have a 7.2.4 config, started with marantz 6011 + rotel rb1552 to drive the front. Decided to give Auro3d ago, upgraded to the 7012 and keeping the rotel 1552. Works great, then decide to give the center more power to got the xpa 5. Didn't find much use with the Auro3d. So for me, should of got the 6012 or even kept the 6011 and get a xpa3 with the rotel.

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Forgot to mention, with the Emotiva the more channel you go for the lower the power for each channel. Also, buy the number you channels that you want. Although, it is promoted as modular and upgradable it is way cheaper to get the right one from the start. Was quoted 2k to upgrade from a 5 channels to a 7 channels by adding in 2 extra cards.

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Hello not sure if relevant i might have to sell a mint second hand pre Primare SP33 7.1 amp receiver bought on sna 6 weeks ago and brand new one month old matching 7.1 channel Primare 30.7 power amp that has not even been plugged in. I keep trying but am just not a massive  HT fan due mainly to space issues and just blown up my main amps so need some funds. Both were 6999 each but now 4500 approx will buy both plus postage. they are meant to be very good on music as well as movies, just a thought. cheers Adam

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