OZee Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Hi all, it must be question asked over and over again. but I will ask anyway. - Does my AVR & Amplifiers need thicker power cables? - Is it for more protection of appliance or makes a sonic difference? - Does the supplied one half decent? or its total crap and should replace immediately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, OZee said: Hi all, it must be question asked over and over again. but I will ask anyway. - Does my AVR & Amplifiers need thicker power cables? No. 9 minutes ago, OZee said: - Is it for more protection of appliance or makes a sonic difference? Neither. It's just a way for the unscrupulous to extract money from the gullible. 9 minutes ago, OZee said: - Does the supplied one half decent? or its total crap and should replace immediately? If the amp was supplied by an Australian retailer, then the power cable will meet all the appropriate Australian standards. It will be safe. Which is more than can be said for many after-market power cables. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) You have opened up a can of worms; the debate over whether power cables make an audible difference or not brings out some very passionate vocal arguments on both sides. I'm with @Zaphod Beeblebrox, they make no difference at all - along with expensive fuses. Apart from shielding in relatively few applications, there isn't any science to support a mechanism for sound quality to improve by changes to the cable. Much better things to spend your money on. Edited June 6, 2018 by Ittaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 If not, why. Not! just joking. oK! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ittaku said: You have opened up a can of worms; the debate over whether power cables make an audible difference or not brings out some very passionate vocal arguments on both sides. I'm with @Zaphod Beeblebrox, they make no difference at all - along with expensive fuses. Apart from shielding in relatively few applications, there isn't any science to support a mechanism for sound quality to improve by changes to the cable. Much better things to spend your money on. Hi Con, I forget whether you are using shielded power cables or not? If 'not' then, next time I come over for a listen, I'll bring over 2 of my 'extra special' power cords - one for each of your monoblocs - to see whether they have any effect. Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 minute ago, andyr said: Hi Con, I forget whether you are using shielded power cables or not? If 'not' then, next time I come over for a listen, I'll bring over 2 of my 'extra special' power cords - one for each of your monoblocs - to see whether they have any effect. Andy They're all shielded, and run off a sequenced power interface. The preamp picks up anything from power cables or transformers nearby which made it a clear win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, OZee said: Hi all, it must be question asked over and over again. but I will ask anyway. - Does my AVR & Amplifiers need thicker power cables? - Is it for more protection of appliance or makes a sonic difference? - Does the supplied one half decent? or its total crap and should replace immediately? Is your av receiver fitted with grounding pin on its iec inlet plug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppaul Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Does OZee mean thicker conductors or external sheath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 3 hours ago, OZee said: Hi all, it must be question asked over and over again. but I will ask anyway. - Does my AVR & Amplifiers need thicker power cables? - Is it for more protection of appliance or makes a sonic difference? - Does the supplied one half decent? or its total crap and should replace immediately? How many amplifiers have you got? If you have a few and your just running them off a normal 10 amp power circuit. Run a seperate 30 amp circuit for them from the DB. This is more important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Elliott Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 10 hours ago, OZee said: Hi all, it must be question asked over and over again. but I will ask anyway. - Does my AVR & Amplifiers need thicker power cables? - Is it for more protection of appliance or makes a sonic difference? - Does the supplied one half decent? or its total crap and should replace immediately? Answers to your questions: 1. i'd replace the wording "thicker" with "higher quality". Depends on your the quality of your Equipment. Knowing your equipment will help. 2. Many variables, but better quality can make a sonic difference. 3. Generally the supplied Cables are as you put it, "total crap". The higher quality Cables work best in synergy with some sort of Power Conditioning, either from the main's board or Power conditioner as supplied by the likes of PS Audio. You can't go wrong with the Furutech cables with Furutech Plugs, but there are plenty of options, and like Interconnects and Speaker Cable, some have better synergy with different Components. See if you can trial some. Doe's Krispy do trials? Best to improve your Power beforehand. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_mike Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 The power cables only have to be as good as the cables in your wall supplying electricity. That cable is worth about $3 per metre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, t_mike said: That cable is worth about $3 per metre. I bought a single spool (100m) of 2.5mm^2 T&E, the most common cable for power in Aus residences for $83 yesterday, so it's about 1/4 of that. In larger quantities, it's even cheaper. Otherwise, I agree with Trev (ZB). I've yet to see the efficacy of shielded cables or power conditioners proven in audio systems. Anecdotes don't count as any sort of proof to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 18 hours ago, Wimbo said: How many amplifiers have you got? If you have a few and your just running them off a normal 10 amp power circuit. Run a seperate 30 amp circuit for them from the DB. This is more important. Even better - run a separate circuit for each component!! Hard to do in an existing house - but a no-brainer for a new build. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 22 hours ago, OZee said: Hi all, it must be question asked over and over again. but I will ask anyway. - Does my AVR & Amplifiers need thicker power cables? - Is it for more protection of appliance or makes a sonic difference? - Does the supplied one half decent? or its total crap and should replace immediately? http://www.bambachcables.com.au/news/articles/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-a-guide-to-quality-cables JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, A9X said: I bought a single spool (100m) of 2.5mm^2 T&E, the most common cable for power in Aus residences for $83 yesterday, so it's about 1/4 of that. In larger quantities, it's even cheaper. Are you sure this is in-wall power cable? I thought 2.5mm^2 was used for lighting circuits - and 20a power circuits use 4mm^2? 6 minutes ago, A9X said: Otherwise, I agree with Trev (ZB). I've yet to see the efficacy of shielded cables or power conditioners proven in audio systems. Anecdotes don't count as any sort of proof to me. @Ittaku has already shown the efficacy of shielded power cables (from the wall) - he said his preamp picks up noise if the cables near to it aren't shielded. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, andyr said: Are you sure this is in-wall power cable? I thought 2.5mm^2 was used for lighting circuits - and 20a power circuits use 4mm^2? The standard domestic installation has 10A rated outlets connected by 2.5mm T&E. Lighting typically uses 1 or 1.5mm^2. Any installation that uses anything different is custom or specific purpose, ie atypical. Also, as an FYI general comment, googling a cable CSA and getting a chart that says it's rated at X amps is misleading. These are typically best case free air ratings and are typically not relevant to the relevant AS3008 deratings. A single cable on a tray in otherwise free air will have a higher rating than one in a bunch running through a wall that's insulated. As for shielding, what you provided was an anecdote and may only be relevant to his system's idiosyncrasies. I've personally run unshielded signal level cables loomed with mains over much longer than most domestic uses with no issues at all. I've also done a ton of measurements on this and found no significantly audible measurable differences. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husq2100 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 for those saying run a seperate circuit for the system, does it matter that all circuits share the same earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, A9X said: As for shielding, what you provided was an anecdote and may only be relevant to his system's idiosyncrasies. I've personally run unshielded signal level cables loomed with mains over much longer than most domestic uses with no issues at all. I've also done a ton of measurements on this and found no significantly audible measurable differences. The preamp concerned was a very high gain 2 stage valve preamp, known for its capacitive induction so it picks up the hum of anything nearby. None of my other devices derive any benefit from shielded cables, and neither does the preamp now that it's redesigned into a much lower gain single stage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 On 07/06/2018 at 12:24 PM, A9X said: I bought a single spool (100m) of 2.5mm^2 T&E, the most common cable for power in Aus residences for $83 yesterday, so it's about 1/4 of that. In larger quantities, it's even cheaper. Otherwise, I agree with Trev (ZB). I've yet to see the efficacy of shielded cables or power conditioners proven in audio systems. Anecdotes don't count as any sort of proof to me. Well, I will acknowledge that shielded power cables may be helpful, when using unshielded interconnects (which is a completely insane idea anyway). Equipment that is improperly shielded is crap and should not be used. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crane Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 07/06/2018 at 10:51 AM, husq2100 said: for those saying run a seperate circuit for the system, does it matter that all circuits share the same earth? I was interested in this exact same question. I'm currently contemplating getting two dedicated lines installed. One for amps and another for my digital sources. I was thinking of running the cable myself and getting a sparkie to do the meter box terminations. I'm just not sure what to ask them to do regarding the earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Thicker cables does not always mean bigger conductors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gmdb Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Depends on how thick the conductor gauge is in the wire you are using now and how much current your components are wanting to draw. Going up to 2.5mm^2 as others suggested isn't a bad idea. That's around 13 awg and AFAIK a lot of the standard electrical cables that ship with electrical components are around 16 awg. I have always thought that primary advantage of expensive power cables was that the gauge of the conductors increased, getting closer or just exceeding the standard wiring inside our houses. I've had good results with 12 awg to amps and 14 awg to other components. This doesn't need to be expensive, but it is good if you know an electrician who can assist with conforming to the Australian standards for the wire used, the connectors, and the safety of the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 32 minutes ago, crane said: I was interested in this exact same question. I'm currently contemplating getting two dedicated lines installed. Great idea! While you're doing this - why not get 30a cable installed in the wall? 32 minutes ago, crane said: One for amps and another for my digital sources. I was thinking of running the cable myself and getting a sparkie to do the meter box terminations. And the PPT terminations, surely? How many PPTs are you going to daisy-chain off each circuit? 32 minutes ago, crane said: I'm just not sure what to ask them to do regarding the earth? AIUI, earths are all connected together back at the switchbox. And the neutral bus is also connected to earth, here. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 People swear by hearing a difference with better power cables.What happens to the power when it goes through the small fuse in the machine ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, Stump said: People swear by hearing a difference with better power cables.What happens to the power when it goes through the small fuse in the machine ?? I could never understand it.... but im contemplating using 30A 3 phase cable for speaker wire.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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