Planning a HT/Rumpus for new house. Any advice appreciated...

[Mark_A]

Building a new house next year and part of the plan is a 6.5 x 4.5 combined HT/Rumpus room.

Ceilings will be 2.7m, plus vaulted at about 30deg.

 

I've never had a HT before (I don't think 55" TV and 2ch audio cuts it around here) and would appreciate some guidance.

 

The plan so far:

130" AT screen from Oz Theatre 

Projector in the $5-10K range (Something along the lines of X9900 or VW360. Whatever seems like a good thing in 2019)

DIY in-wall/ceiling speakers all round (Atmos 7.1.6)

Marantz AV8805

DIY Amps. 

 

Speaker wise, I'll be going DIY in-wall either with proven designs or roll-my-own. Nothing too crazy and probably based on "Hi-Fi" drivers rather than PA to keep the required volume down.

Say, 6.5" MT for all surrounds and 6.5" MTM for LCR (Maybe step it up to WMTMW). Subwoofers TBD but will also be built in. 

 

So, some questions:

 

130" screen on a 4.5m wall? Bigger or smaller? Viewing distance will be around 4m.

AT screen picture quality? I expect it can't be as good an a non-AT screen, but worth it for the speaker placement?

I'd like to mount the projector in the rear wall. This would give a throw of around 20ft which according to "Web Projector Calculator" should be OK? (Using the VW360 and 130" as an example)

 

Any advice is appreciated, particularly things to be considered before building.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Quark]

If 16:9, 130" at 4m would be fine for me (and I like an immersive image), but YMMV - consider projecting on a white sheet for a while. If you're talking a scope screen, my preference would be 140" at 4m.

 

I've only seen 1080 images on AT screens, but on quality material it looked very nice. Cheap material can look woeful, with extensive moire effects.

 

As you mount the projector further back, you lose brightness and for large screen sizes this can mean replacing lamps before their nominal end of life (lamps lose brightness as they age). Consider moving the mount further forward into the room. Speaking of mounts, don't go cheap as you'll go through all sorts of heartache aligning the projector - a Peerless precision geared mount or the Chief equivalent are the only ones worth buying.

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

Building a new house next year and part of the plan is a 6.5 x 4.5 combined HT/Rumpus room.

Ceilings will be 2.7m, plus vaulted at about 30deg.

congrats !  great idea to combine, I think it works so well to do that and makes a much more useable family space.

 

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

Projector in the $5-10K range (Something along the lines of X9900 or VW360. Whatever seems like a good thing in 2019)

please dont spend that sort of money on the 360.

 

will be much better off with the jvc 5900/7900 and pocket the change. review below covers well

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-vw360es-4k-sxrd-projector-review.14126

 

we have talked about this a bit in this thread below too.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/246984-upgrade-ideas-4k/

 

though 2019 might bring some more choices

 

4m viewing distance in a 6.5m room will work well for not only audio but picture. and leave plenty of room at rear and sides and up top to work in a 7.1.4 setup. am pretty sure will over resolve 1080p so give some gains with 4k

 

I agree 100% with quark to not scrimp on screen or mount.

[IMDave]

130" scope sitting at 4m works for me with 4kUHD. 

Also have 5.1.4 Atmos which works well in a 6.5 x 4.5 room. YMMV.

[Mark_A]

19 hours ago, Quark said:

 

As you mount the projector further back, you lose brightness and for large screen sizes this can mean replacing lamps before their nominal end of life (lamps lose brightness as they age). Consider moving the mount further forward into the room.

So, would lamp life be the only downside? I could live with that as a tradeoff for the higher WAF of a concealed projector...

 

 

19 hours ago, al said:

congrats !  great idea to combine, I think it works so well to do that and makes a much more useable family space.

 

please dont spend that sort of money on the 360.

 

will be much better off with the jvc 5900/7900 and pocket the change. review below covers well

Yep. It leads to some compromises (One wall is 70% glass doors  ) But I'm confident it will work out fine.

If I were buying now it'd definitely be a JVC. Will be interesting to see what happens next year...

 

9 hours ago, IMDave said:

130" scope sitting at 4m works for me with 4kUHD. 

Also have 5.1.4 Atmos which works well in a 6.5 x 4.5 room. YMMV.

I reckon 5.1.4 would be more than good enough, but I figured seeings it's a scratch build I might as well max out the receiver if I can fit them all in 

 

 

Thanks for the replies! 

[Quark]

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

So, would lamp life be the only downside? I could live with that as a tradeoff for the higher WAF of a concealed projector...

 

Provided you don't go with too large a screen and/or one with too low a gain (AT screens usually have a lower gain).

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

So, would lamp life be the only downside? I could live with that as a tradeoff for the higher WAF of a concealed projector...

the larger you go with screens and further away you plonk the projector the more you would need to open up iris to get say minimum 30FL or 100Nits to have some gains with HDR. you dont really want to be cranking lamp output up as well as that will just send lamp quicker to grave. why quarks suggestion is important. if you are sitting around 4m projector mounted at any point behind that will be out of field of visions sitting down.

 

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

I reckon 5.1.4 would be more than good enough, but I figured seeings it's a scratch build I might as well max out the receiver if I can fit them all in 

definitely go 7.1.4 if can with a larger room the rears... and especially since we have much native in 7.1 plus dolby surround and neural X work to great effectiveness in utilising a full speaker compliment so I dont think will regret not going 7.1.4 if can. 

 

it looks like doing DIY amps anyways so whats another couple

[blybo]

pushing the lamp more will also push you into high lamp mode (at least in the 2nd half of the lamps life), causing annoying noise from the fan.

 

My room is 3.9m x 6m and have a 130 scope screen. I also sit with my head around 3.5m-3.8m from the screen depending on if reclined or not.

 

With a room this size, I'm not sure how you will use it for rumpus duties, I'd need a much bigger room to make it multi use.

[davewantsmoore]

On 03/06/2018 at 10:57 AM, Mark_A said:

I expect it can't be as good an a non-AT screen, but worth it for the speaker placement?

Definitely

 

On 03/06/2018 at 10:57 AM, Mark_A said:

Speaker wise, I'll be going DIY in-wall either with proven designs or roll-my-own. Nothing too crazy and probably based on "Hi-Fi" drivers rather than PA to keep the required volume down.

Go for existing designs....    What to recommend depends on specifics, like:

 

How much SPL you desire

How much space/volume you have to work with

Budget

 

... however you will find something for your application at diysoundgroup or similar.   Keep in mind if you are building everything into walls, then you need speakers which are not designed to run in 'free space' (or that can be adjusted for wall mounted arrangement).

 

 

[davewantsmoore]

5 hours ago, blybo said:

pushing the lamp more will also push you into high lamp mode (at least in the 2nd half of the lamps life), causing annoying noise from the fan.

This.

[davewantsmoore]

Consider upfront what sound isolation you want/need for this room, and build accordingly.    It is impossible/expensive to retrofit later.

[ward0112]

On 04/06/2018 at 9:29 AM, blybo said:

My room is 3.9m x 6m and have a 130 scope screen. I also sit with my head around 3.5m-3.8m from the screen depending on if reclined or not.

 

On 03/06/2018 at 9:43 PM, IMDave said:

130" scope sitting at 4m works for me with 4kUHD.

 

I clearly oversized my screen then

 

I have a 5m x 4.5 meter room and sit about 3.8 meters from the screen. I put in a 165 inch scope screen, and couldn't be happier. 

 

I would strongly suggest leaving the screen size selection until you have the room set up and watch some content on sheets. 

 

I was initially considering a 140 inch scope screen, but in real life, this looked way too small. Really happy with the 165 - so immersive. Peoples tolerance for wide screens varies and you need to tailor the room to your preferences.

Edited June 19, 2018 by ward0112

[Gee Emm]

Am I the only one that ever recessed the screen into the wall? A recommendation!

When i did this;

It reduced the need for darker walls etc.

It also reduced the 'halo' effect of reflected light from the screen back into the room.

Plus, I think it looked fantastic. My screen was recessed 400mm into a black recess, assisting in creating a floating image.

If you can't recess a screen, I strongly suggest a darker wall behind the screen, and if possible dark walls & ceiling somewhat forward of the screen.

 

 

[IMDave]

20 hours ago, Gee Emm said:

Am I the only one that ever recessed the screen into the wall? A recommendation!

When i did this;

It reduced the need for darker walls etc.

It also reduced the 'halo' effect of reflected light from the screen back into the room.

Plus, I think it looked fantastic. My screen was recessed 400mm into a black recess, assisting in creating a floating image.

If you can't recess a screen, I strongly suggest a darker wall behind the screen, and if possible dark walls & ceiling somewhat forward of the screen.

 

 

I wish I had have seen this idea before I built my HT. Unfortunately, I only discovered the concept when I started researching how to improve contrast by removing reflections on the side walls and ceiling.

If there is an option to recess your screen during the build phase, I, too, would highly recommend it.

Having said that @Gee Emm, you're defeating the purpose by having the M&M's and "crap" sitting on the shelf. Cover everything with black velvet from Spotlight, and your screen will "float in space" even more.

I'm jealous.

[figjam]

Something else to consider is curtain troughs along side and/or rear walls. This eliminates the need for pelmets and assists in stopping light from a window creeping over the top of the curtains. Also looks good with a concealed LED light strip up there too.

[Gee Emm]

On 06/06/2018 at 7:48 AM, IMDave said:

@Gee Emmyou're defeating the purpose by having the M&M's and "crap" sitting on the shelf. Cover everything with black velvet from Spotlight, and your screen will "float in space" even more.

I'm jealous.

The crap on the shelf is during a listening session, not a watching session.

Gotta put your crap somewhere during a drinking & listening session... :)

[Mat-with-one-t]

A few things not to forget at frame stage (the next phase of building moves really fast!):

 

- lots of insulation in the walls and roof

 

- run Cat6 eithernet cable everywhere!  It’s really cheap if you buy in 150m rolls.  Easy to terminate yourself at walls (need a $40 kit).  Think about where gear will go, and run a length to each item that’s gonna need it, plus at least 2 extra lengths for each area there’s gonna be gear.  Run through walls away from power cable where possible.  Pick a single accessible (both down through roof and up through floor) place in the house and have this as the cable origin.  That’s where you’ll have your phone line/cable into modem, and perhaps a NAS and so on.  Don’t forget to also run  Cat6 for cameras/detectors if you plan for a security system.  You may may want to consider a rack system (like businesses use) or similar.  I used a laundry cupboard with ventilation grills on the door.

 

 

 

 

- buy a spool of high quality speaker cable and run to places you expect to have more permanent speaker placement (in wall, on wall, anywhere where cable will be in the way across the floor).  Whilst at it, think of any outside area you may later put speakers!  

 

- lots of PowerPoints!  No such thing as too many, and remember you’ll end up with dozens of points on power boards, so think about how you can both access these as well as hide them!  I’ve seen really elegant hidden doors in walls (with adequate ventilation) to tidy things.  

 

- look at the wiring diagram for the sparkies.  Have them run DEDICATED loops to your gear (not sharing a circuit with electrically noisy items, such as the fridge, washing machine, etc).  Again, cheap and easy at building time. Put a high quality circuit breaker on these circuits.

 

- consider the ability to retract your screen into a pelmet out of site.  This means you can make use of the wall space for art or similar!

 

- install good quality led lighting, and think about the room’s uses, so you can have variations of bright through to mood to video watching lighting.....

 

- IMPORTANT: at frame stage, once you’ve run all your cables and before insulation, take reference photos or every part of the room, including roof.  Take measurements to studs/bulkheads, and make a file that shows all of this.  You’ll thank me when it comes to hanging that expensive tv, art, finding that damn cable, etc!

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Mat-with-one-t

[Zammo]

Here's my build from a few years ago. It's a little long, but there may be some points of interest for you.

 

 

[iversons13]

A few things I wish I gave more thought to:

 

1. Build in provisions for surround wides, ie 9.1.x. Filling in the gap between mains and side surrounds is the next level for immersive audio. Wiring can always be run down the track but it gets tricky if your door is right in the preferred speaker location.

 

2. Consider room acoustics now. If it's a rectangular room, simulation software can predict room modes, which will guide room size and seating location, which in turn determines speaker placement. Also look to integrate treatments into any baffle walls, risers etc you may be building.

 

3. This one was mentioned, but now is the time to determine your sound isolation needs. There's no fixing a leaky room post construction.

 

4. If possible find a way to house the projector and equipment in an adjacent room or partition. Similarly, it adds a little bit of extra wow factor when all speakers are concealed so the sound can be heard but not seen.

 

5. If you're going with two rows of seats, multiple subs will likely be required to achieve a consistent bass response. 4 subs positioned at the 1/4 way points on the front and rear walls, or subs at the mid points on all 4 walls are proven locations. This may affect door location or, at the very least, add to the cabling and power requirements.