Best System Yet Heard - Continuation of Magnesium Speaker Thread

[bhobba]

Hi All

 

Well the last post on the Magnesium's was a while ago and Mike was at very late prototype stage.   But since then has been very busy putting in more work to the ML5 design and building them so the final design was only done as a few bits here and there as time permitted.  Now its finalized and I heard the final prototype with just breadboarded very ordinary components.  He found it just as hard as George Short and had even more prototypes before the final one.   Just like George he found a trap wasn't the way to go - probably the double Q issue he talked about in what I posted in the Magnesium thread and ended up 4th order on the bass and third order quasy treble.  It has a 30db null.

 

So Mike called me and said come and have a listen.  But I have some new gear I likely will be carrying - Grandinote which he had mentioned before that I should hear.   So I went on down - after reading overseas reviews of course.  Anyway here is the information:

Dac: http://www.grandinote.it/volta - en.html

Amp: http://www.grandinote.it/shinai - en.html

 

This stuff is not cheap - its probably the most expensive products that are not speakers Mike sells - the DAC $13.5k - the amp $18.5k.  The BHK amp and pre together is more expensive I think,  and this amp has its own pre - so if looked at it this way maybe slightly cheaper than the BHK.  Either way it aren't cheap mate.

 

I was not prepared for what I heard.  It is simply the most clean, clear, pure, transparent, detailed sound I have yet experienced - its like a window to the performance - transparency like you are there - its that good..   This is the system I want - I fell in love with it immediately.   What was the reason - well the speaker has a sound different to Mikes normal speakers.   His normal speakers has what Rawl99 calls harmonic resolution - they produce a rich full sound.   This speaker is not like that - it not harmonically rich, organic or adjectives of that nature - its simply uncolored transparency.

 

We listened to a wide variety of music.  We played some Yello which I dislike - it is not to my taste and has this spity treble.   Was it in the speaker?  Well someone I know that can be sibilant is Louis Armstrong.   Played that - no spityness or sibilance - just Sachmo.   Now the real test - the music I listen to -  I listen to Sachmo a bit but what about things in a similar vein I listen to more.   My standard Diana Krall - A Case Of You - flawless with detail I  have never heard on other speakers - it really is a window.   Peggy Lee - Fever - beautiful.  Sammy Davis - he was there - that's all I can say.  Nat King Cole - well he started out as a Jazz pianist and played one of those he recorded - the piano was natural and very realistic.   But then we played his better known vocal stuff.  His voice just floated there - again he was 'real'.

 

The only issue is what was the Grandinote contributing and what was the speaker contributing.   I don't know - further listening will be necessary with different gear.

 

I have spoken to Mike this morning about what capacitors to use.   The ones in the tweeter that are in the signal path will be Jupiter Copper bypassed by Duelund silver bypass capacitors.  The ones not in the signal path will be Jantzen Superior bypassed by the Duelund.  Then what really floored me.   An audiophile on the Gold Coast called in while we were playing with my Magnesium's.   He had borrowed the DAC and Mike said he comes around all the time to here it - he was obviously smitten.  This DAC is expensive but IMHO is genuinely above the others.  Clay the maker of the Gross has heard it - I will not put words in his mouth but speaking to him he is looking into how he can improve his DAC.

 

Another interesting thing Mike hadn't discovered, but I did is this has Bridge functionality like The Direct Stream built in and I was able to stream Tidal.  Normally I find non-MQA Tidal veiled - this was not.   It sounded exactly the same - me and the guy that called in said - I cant tell the difference.  Well this needed careful listening with the standard test track Case Of You.  So I blind tested it.  The Tidal version was just ever so slightly 'thicker' - but boy was it small.  This is the best Tidal I have yet heard.   I dont think it does MQA - but you cant have everything - maybe a software update like PS Audio did for the Bridge.

 

Well that's it.   The best sound I have heard.  I have however set the rule - no more gear until I have sold what I already have.   I will not even think about the Gradinote until that's done.   But boy is it tempting.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by bhobba

[greigw]

Grandinote, Grandinote....

 

Sorry couldn't resist. ☺

[Pops110]

Grandinote was best room at the show last year to my ears. Very nice stuff.

[sir sanders zingmore]

16 minutes ago, Pops110 said:

Grandinote was best room at the show last year to my ears. Very nice stuff.

Which room were they in (I remember them - they are hard to miss- but I don’t remember the rest of the room) 

[Pops110]

They were in the Purasound room.

[sir sanders zingmore]

Yes, I remember now. Thanks !

[ljmac]

On 29 May 2018 at 3:14 AM, bhobba said:

well the speaker has a sound different to Mikes normal speakers.   His normal speakers has what Rawl99 calls harmonic resolution - they produce a rich full sound.   This speaker is not like that - it not harmonically rich, organic or adjectives of that nature - its simply uncolored transparency.

I'm not entirely sure this is what I want. I'm very big on transparency (I think the ML2 Ltd is the least coloured and most transparent speaker I've heard), but I'm also very big on neutrality, and I think Mike's speakers have the most neutral balance I've heard too—anything leaner would probably sound too cold or clinical to me. I am a music lover first and an audiophile second, so I want my whole collection to sound good, and the balance Mike strikes achieves just that—lean recordings aren't too lean, but tubby recordings aren't too tubby either. Still, I definitely want to hear this—I may very well love it.

[Guest Muon N']

I prefer a  rich full sound  myself.

 

Edit: sounds like these would capture a sector of the market that his speakers currently don't

Edited June 1, 2018 by Muon N'

[Lenehan Audio]

The Mag Limited has been a very tough design and build but I think its done ! 

Even with rubbish Xover parts this speaker sounds very good . Just extraordinary bass and punch , bare in mind this speaker is smaller than the ML2 ! It's also insensitivity (around 84db W 2.83v ) 

 

Bill has pushed this design since the start and it looks like its paid off ! Exceptional resolution and speed , lowest enclosure energy storage I have so far built . 

 

The enclosures utilise 18mm to 36mm HD3 ,$800 a sheet and I have the last 8 sheets manufactured , fully lined with 6mm thick pure copper plate ($1270 per square Mtr ) .  Ply shelf bracing and solid Cast Iron rod differential bracing.

 The big glitch at the moment is they would cost around the same as a pair of ML5Reference 23K . .  Anyway we will these running as well as a pair of ML5ref to compare against the Quad 2912 Electroststics I just traded when we have our big GTG in a month or so .   I'll anounce the date soon . 

               Keep lisnin.  Lads.    Mike Lenehan

[Ray H]

@Lenehan Audio

 

Any chance of a picture of the magnesium to get a feel for its size ?

[Lenehan Audio]

[mention=106822]Lenehan Audio[/mention]
 
Any chance of a picture of the magnesium to get a feel for its size ?

Hi Ray
See pic (not finished of course)
380H x 370D x 195W. Mike

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

 

Mike has a heap of stuff of mine I traded to pay for the Magnesium's, as well as some other stuff I left down there, namely the BHK pre and 250 amp, to check out with the Magnesium's.   With my Arthritis I could not lug it down there all the time.   As Mike said the Magnesiums are not cheap.   And I couldn't resist - getting the Gradinote DAC and amp as soon as I can scrape together the money, so the BHK pre and amp no longer required.  Some of the stuff has not sold yet, and so chatting to Mike we have decided to put most of them up for sale on Steronet. 

 

The items up for sale are:

1.  BHK Pre

2.  BHK 250w amp

3. Naquadria Aeon Amp

4. Truth Pre Amp

5. PDX upgraded to Konverter Level.

 

I have some other stuff but will see if the above brings in enough money or not.  See the advertisements Mike will put up for prices and details.

 

Note to the moderators - if this is not appropriate to mention in this thread/forum happy to remove it - the ads will be going in the classified section and I will confine any discussion on the gear to there.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

[Guest Sime]

On 29/05/2018 at 8:40 PM, Pops110 said:

They were in the Purasound room.

This system was good when they were playing the songs selected for their demo’s, then we asked them to play something else…………

[bhobba]

4 minutes ago, Sime said:

This system was good when they were playing the songs selected for their demo’s, then we asked them to play something else…………

 

I played a fair bit of stuff while checking it down at Mikes over a 2 hour period.   IMHO everything I played with the DAC and amp sounded fantastic.   But it was not their speakers - it was my Magnesium's - and as Mike has said they are wild.  

 

I just could not resist - am trying now to scrape up enough money to get them, hence my previous post.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

19 hours ago, Lenehan Audio said:

The big glitch at the moment is they would cost around the same as a pair of ML5Reference 23K . .

 

And doesn't my bank account know it

 

This hobby is too addictive. 

 

Glad Mike thinks he will have them up and running for a GTG - you can hear it for yourself.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

On 01/06/2018 at 7:26 PM, ljmac said:

I'm not entirely sure this is what I want.

I will not post the review of the ML1 Reference - its been discussed to death - one loved it, the other - blah.  I know you don't like the ML1 that much, but even you thought the blah one was  a bit harsh.  Who is right and who is wrong?  Who knows - although the discussion that followed about the ML1's was interesting - it flushed out a number of people who like you don't like it that much.

 

So its all very personal - no hard and fast rules here IMHO.   I must be fair and mention Mike doesn't agree with this - he builds his speakers for accuracy and says once proper accurate speakers are heard everyone likes them.  Sure to be some interesting debate at the GTG.  Of course Mike likes both these speakers ie the ML5's and Magnesium, and both are as accurate as his usual high standards, but they do sound different - so let the fun commence 

 

Thanks

Bill

Edited June 4, 2018 by bhobba

[ljmac]

On 4 June 2018 at 5:07 PM, bhobba said:

I will not post the review of the ML1 Reference - its been discussed to death - one loved it, the other - blah.  I know you don't like the ML1 that much, but even you thought the blah one was  a bit harsh.  Who is right and who is wrong?  Who knows - although the discussion that followed about the ML1's was interesting - it flushed out a number of people who like you don't like it that much.

I have to say, when I heard that really run in pair at the GTG I went to, I have largely reformed my opinion of the ML1 - I guess the pair Mike demo'ed to me were just too new. Then and again, I heard the first pair of ML2s at every stage of Mike's build, and thought they sounded great from the get go. I think just being a bigger speaker gives the ML2 a bit more breathing space, so running it in isn't as critical as with the ML1s. But that well run in pair I heard were very much up with the ML2s IMHO.

Edited June 30, 2018 by ljmac

[Southie Adam]

Any updates on this @bhobba? How far off are you from getting these now? Heard them lately?? Any new pictures to share? 

 

 

[bhobba]

36 minutes ago, Somethingclever said:

Any updates on this @bhobba? How far off are you from getting these now? Heard them lately?? Any new pictures to share? 

 

Not yet.   Mike is waiting on some pass resistors.

 

Bill

[Cardiiiii]

Are the magnesiums similar in size to the ML2s?

[Lenehan Audio]

The Magnesium Ltds are just a bit smaller than the ML2’s.
Cheers Mike

[bhobba]

19 hours ago, Lenehan Audio said:

The Magnesium Ltds are just a bit smaller than the ML2’s.
Cheers Mike

 

But strangely produce as good or maybe even better bass,   They are about halfway between an ML2 and ML1 price-wise.

 

Thanks

Bill

[matth]

On 28/05/2018 at 7:14 PM, bhobba said:

Hi All

 

Well the last post on the Magnesium's was a while ago and Mike was at very late prototype stage.   But since then has been very busy putting in more work to the ML5 design and building them so the final design was only done as a few bits here and there as time permitted.  Now its finalized and I heard the final prototype with just breadboarded very ordinary components.  He found it just as hard as George Short and had even more prototypes before the final one.   Just like George he found a trap wasn't the way to go - probably the double Q issue he talked about in what I posted in the Magnesium thread and ended up 4th order on the bass and third order quasy treble.  It has a 30db null.

 

So Mike called me and said come and have a listen.  But I have some new gear I likely will be carrying - Grandinote which he had mentioned before that I should hear.   So I went on down - after reading overseas reviews of course.  Anyway here is the information:

Dac: http://www.grandinote.it/volta - en.html

Amp: http://www.grandinote.it/shinai - en.html

 

This stuff is not cheap - its probably the most expensive products that are not speakers Mike sells - the DAC $13.5k - the amp $18.5k.  The BHK amp and pre together is more expensive I think,  and this amp has its own pre - so if looked at it this way maybe slightly cheaper than the BHK.  Either way it aren't cheap mate.

 

I was not prepared for what I heard.  It is simply the most clean, clear, pure, transparent, detailed sound I have yet experienced - its like a window to the performance - transparency like you are there - its that good..   This is the system I want - I fell in love with it immediately.   What was the reason - well the speaker has a sound different to Mikes normal speakers.   His normal speakers has what Rawl99 calls harmonic resolution - they produce a rich full sound.   This speaker is not like that - it not harmonically rich, organic or adjectives of that nature - its simply uncolored transparency.

 

We listened to a wide variety of music.  We played some Yello which I dislike - it is not to my taste and has this spity treble.   Was it in the speaker?  Well someone I know that can be sibilant is Louis Armstrong.   Played that - no spityness or sibilance - just Sachmo.   Now the real test - the music I listen to -  I listen to Sachmo a bit but what about things in a similar vein I listen to more.   My standard Diana Krall - A Case Of You - flawless with detail I  have never heard on other speakers - it really is a window.   Peggy Lee - Fever - beautiful.  Sammy Davis - he was there - that's all I can say.  Nat King Cole - well he started out as a Jazz pianist and played one of those he recorded - the piano was natural and very realistic.   But then we played his better known vocal stuff.  His voice just floated there - again he was 'real'.

 

The only issue is what was the Grandinote contributing and what was the speaker contributing.   I don't know - further listening will be necessary with different gear.

 

I have spoken to Mike this morning about what capacitors to use.   The ones in the tweeter that are in the signal path will be Jupiter Copper bypassed by Duelund silver bypass capacitors.  The ones not in the signal path will be Jantzen Superior bypassed by the Duelund.  Then what really floored me.   An audiophile on the Gold Coast called in while we were playing with my Magnesium's.   He had borrowed the DAC and Mike said he comes around all the time to here it - he was obviously smitten.  This DAC is expensive but IMHO is genuinely above the others.  Clay the maker of the Gross has heard it - I will not put words in his mouth but speaking to him he is looking into how he can improve his DAC.

 

Another interesting thing Mike hadn't discovered, but I did is this has Bridge functionality like The Direct Stream built in and I was able to stream Tidal.  Normally I find non-MQA Tidal veiled - this was not.   It sounded exactly the same - me and the guy that called in said - I cant tell the difference.  Well this needed careful listening with the standard test track Case Of You.  So I blind tested it.  The Tidal version was just ever so slightly 'thicker' - but boy was it small.  This is the best Tidal I have yet heard.   I dont think it does MQA - but you cant have everything - maybe a software update like PS Audio did for the Bridge.

 

Well that's it.   The best sound I have heard.  I have however set the rule - no more gear until I have sold what I already have.   I will not even think about the Gradinote until that's done.   But boy is it tempting.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

Hi Bill,

so the GN Volta is the best DAC you ever heard?

Better than Killer and Chord M-Scaler + DAVE?

Thanks

 

Matt

[bhobba]

On 07/01/2019 at 2:13 AM, matth said:

Hi Bill,

so the GN Volta is the best DAC you ever heard?

Better than Killer and Chord M-Scaler + DAVE?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

First just got out of hospital from falling and badly breaking my distal Feumur.  I will not be able to do too much of anything for a while,

 

Yes the Gradinote is the best overall DAC I have heard so far.   Because of being in hospital I have not had a chance to hear or compare the Chord stuff to it so cant comment yet.  At the moment I have lent out the Chord TT2 and M-Scalar but nothing has been done yet because everyone is busy busy with other stuff.

 

Regarding the Killer its a different beast - to my ears its slightly, ever so slightly Euphonic, and on certain music is entrancing (er Peggy Lee Fever - its the kind of music I listen to) but on other music (eg Lenard Cohen) I don't like it.   The maker of the Killer says its simply garbage in garbage out.   I do not know - except I do not like it.  From my listening to the Gradniote it's even all the way through.  Is it better on Peggy Lee than the Killer - only a direct comparison can say.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

[zenelectro]

Just looked what that bone is - oouuuch. I hope you have a speedy and not too painful recovery Bill, get well mate.

 

The Grandinote Volta DAC intrigues me.  It's actually quite a large beast.

 

Has anyone had a look under the bonnet to see what's in there? 

 

T