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Ittaku

Amateur OB speaker builder and his ARC based digital system

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2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Good for you. I know what I'm missing, but I have no way to address it.

You need to start spending money on more expensive power supplies, cables and interconnects🤣

 

Not - ha ha, just could not resist :)

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Yes agreed Con, 

Sometimes we can only do with what we have in a given area... 

Hence, there will always be comprises. However, having lived in our little shoebox for nearly 15 years, having gone through various systems, from Maggies, to Wilson's, Sonus Faber, Apogee's, Quads, and now Martin Logan's, regardless of the limited space, I have really enjoyed the music, and that's what counts!

 

Our new house was a long term project in the making. We finally got there! Now with all the added space and proper placement guidelines, I can certainly appreciate what the system is fully capable of doing, and once you experience that level of potential, it's a remarkable achievement by the designers I must say. 

 

As I said before, I've reached the limit and this is where it ends. There will be very minor upgrades along the way, as we Audiophiles always like to commit to... But nothing really major. 

 

On a similar note, going back a bit, when Comparing the new ARCM160's vs your current Ref250se's, as I heard these two pretty much side by side with very similar speaker systems, the differences were only marginal and this is simply because both systems have reached their full potential. 

 

That's when I mentioned to you that the price difference is pretty big but the performance is not quite... And not something I would spend on. Also having said that, after you yourself actually tried them out, you didn't really fancy them either. 

 

Another main reason that your system sounds far better in terms of overall musicality and synergy with the Ref250se's in there. I would just sit back and enjoy the fine music, and not to mention the fine wine! 

Cheers maties, have a good one! 

RJ

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Did a couple of other power line noise experiments for grins. Probably the most interesting one was turning on separate components on the same line and seeing the effect it had on measured noise. The two winners were the preamp and the DAC (I couldn't test the power amps, they're on their own circuit.) The reason they're winners is they both decrease power line noise. That's right, they actually absorb the noise themselves, decreasing it for all the other components. The DAC was the most substantial in this regard, lowering it by about 200mV (from 900mV at the time) and the preamp by almost 100. Now there's a product by PS audio which is a noise harvester which is said to do the same thing in parallel https://www.psaudio.com/products/noise-harvester/ However the one review I could find of it online found it not really helpful at all, apart from telling you how much noise was there in the first place, and confirming that some devices don't actually do what they claim (also from PS audio hah!) https://whatishifi.blogspot.com/2019/02/testing-ps-audio-noise-harvester.html But the point is, it is possible for a device in parallel to actually decrease power line noise, presumably by "consuming" non-50Hz voltages . The effect isn't cumulative or synergistic though. It's also not a static 200mV, as the amount it decreases it depends on how much is there in the first place - the more noise, the more it decreases it. Once the noise was below 700mV, neither device lowered it further.

 

Presumably if devices are good at reducing power line noise for all other devices, then hopefully they're very good at reducing it for themselves (I know one doesn't necessarily lead to the other but there's a good chance it does.)  I've always thought that the best way to tackle power line noise is with electronics with exceptional power supplies that do the work themselves instead of adding yet more components, and that's likely why power treatment upstream of the electronics here does nothing audible to my failing hearing (though it didn't before I started losing my hearing too.)

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1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Presumably if devices are good at reducing power line noise for all other devices, then hopefully they're very good at reducing it for themselves (I know one doesn't necessarily lead to the other but there's a good chance it does.)

I think that's a fair bet.

 

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

I've always thought that the best way to tackle power line noise is with electronics with exceptional power supplies that do the work themselves instead of adding yet more components, and that's likely why power treatment upstream of the electronics here does nothing audible to my failing hearing (though it didn't before I started losing my hearing too.)

I have always thought that it was the responsibility of any equipment manufacturer to design their own internal power supplies to cope with all  normally encountered noise that you might expect to find on local mains power.  It is relatively easy to do, and they rate their equipment to be able to perform using said power.  So they should.

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Updated the top post to reflect removal of the Singxer SU-6. It did nothing for my system (good or bad) and someone wanted one so I've moved it on.

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As I've posted elsewhere, I grabbed one of the active Thor filtering boards to compare it to the passive ones. It didn't quite perform as I'd expected. The isolated outlet is unfiltered entirely (I learnt after I emailed Thor to ask about it) and the two banks seem to have different quality filters. Once again this is all just academic since neither it nor the passive filtering board made a noticeable audible improvement.

 

 

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image.png.36b4a4832709ad78389e854a0f9736f5.png

I had a feeling this wouldn't be too far away. If I weren't tied to needing a 4 channel preamp, I'd be excited, but alas I've now made my system dependent on having the crossover before the DAC, let alone the preamp (and as it is I'm only using my existing preamp as a very expensive buffer.)

 

Edited by Ittaku

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The Ref6SE sounds like a very formidable unit to have as a front end in any high quality system. 

The main thing to less colouration, purer sound and the shortest possible signal paths, is to keep the pre-power combination as simply as possible. Have zero connections between the two will provide a much purer sound, un-colored. I've seen quite a few very elaborate systems with just far too much gear either going into the pre or coming out of it, far too many unnecessary connection points and further into the power amps, they they go into subs, reverb units, cross-overs and the list goes on... 

 

I still believe in keeping things simple and addressing the basics: AC mains, voltage stabilisers, room, system placement & speaker positioning will all lead to a far greater benefit than any new gear purchased to enhance sound quality.

 

Obviously new gear is a good thing but unless the basics have been addressed first, there's really no point. Just my 50cts worth... 

 

Early in Feb I'll be visiting the CJ, ARC and Alsyvox importers in Spore. Have already planned a full audition with the Anniversary edition of Dan D's momentums and the formidable Relentless monoblocks. That would be one awesome pair of amps to have, that's just a thought...

 

If you ever get the chance to audition the Ref6se, let us know your thoughts Con!

Cheers mate, have a good one 

RJ

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What a great use of old valves!

 

OYBTBDm.jpg

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As some of you may know, I have a progressive hearing loss issue in my right ear. I bought these recently, which looked promising online:

KcJtL2W.jpg

 

They're a Perth company here:

https://www.nuheara.com/

 

They certainly do what they claim to do, and can sort of act like weak hearing aids, with noise blocking and variable boosting and sound profiles, which is why I bought them for noisy public locations. Well I hate them and am sending them back. It's the same as having earplugs in with the constant roaring of your own bodily sounds and voice and thumping when you eat or walk. That greatly offsets anything they offer. Otherwise if you don't particularly mind that feeling, they're great wireless IEMs that customise to your hearing profile. Meh.

Edited by Ittaku

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Had an (ultra-mini) GTG here on Sunday with one person. System was sounding great as usual, the music, and banter flowed and was greatly enjoyable. I may have to do this with more SNA people in the future.

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Hi Con, thanks so much for your hospitality mate. Was really great catching up.

I loved the look and sound of your speakers, very different sonically to what I’m used to. The lack of boxiness would be interesting to investigate further.

I really appreciate running me through how everything was setup and the playlist was great to get an idea of how the system sounds.

Hope you enjoyed the wine mate. 
 

Cheers Dave.

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Got a nice surprise for my DSPeaker X4. I didn't even know it had bluetooth capability, but now it has a nice convenient app too. Seems to work nicely and with a small number of features not available from the regular menu, like renaming inputs.

 

image.png.3f21f729cfa8ca8c19d5e808471d2b66.png

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I just drafted a long post about what I hate about the audiophile world but I know it would just piss people off here so I've deleted it, but I feel better for drafting it.

Instead I'll say Merry XMas.

Edited by Ittaku

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2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

I just drafted a long post about what I hate about the audiophile world but I know it would just piss people off here so I've deleted it, but I feel better for drafting it.

Instead I'll say Merry XMas.

 

Seems a waste for all that work!

Meerry Xmas!

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1 hour ago, LogicprObe said:

Seems a waste for all that work!

Haha, true.

 

Removing the potentially offensive aspect to the post, in short, it was lamenting my 30 years of being an audiophile and watching the gradual shift in audiophilia from pushing the envelopes of extreme engineering, construction, design, and materials to a market full of snake oil crap.

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9 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Haha, true.

 

Removing the potentially offensive aspect to the post, in short, it was lamenting my 30 years of being an audiophile and watching the gradual shift in audiophilia from pushing the envelopes of extreme engineering, construction, design, and materials to a market full of snake oil crap.

 

Hallelujah!

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I often wonder why people are so convinced they hear improvements when there's nothing there... Buying a piece of equipment is without a doubt the worst possible way to audition something. No one ever seems to buy something and then say it didn't improve the sound. I've done it, I've admitted it... why is it so hard to overcome cognitive biases?

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Spot on there Con!

 

In fact, funny you mentioned this, as I was just discussing this very same topic - snake oil - with my car service dealership mate. He's got the top of the line Focals, driven by VTL monoblocks and has tried far too many gizmos over the decades, with very little benefit. Finally moved into a new place that was built few months before mine, and clearly identifies the improvements gained from a well defined space, which is not only much larger but also well laid out in terms of acoustic balance.

 

He also did a similar internal acoustic panelling structure inside the walls, plus most of the attention is on dedicated AC mains and solid grounding solutions. We're both using pretty much the same simple grounding layouts from Nordost.

 

Just recently he was approached by a well known brand carrying fancy cabling, interconnects power cords and ancillary gear selected for "high definition"... 

He hooked it all up, and in fact it was the "lowest definition" he's ever experienced! 

I took one of those power cords home to try out as well, although holding it in my hand feels like a million bucks! Which it nearly is 20 grand to be precise, I honestly don't think it's worth 20 bucks! 

OK maybe $200 but not 20 grand. 

 

OTH, just for the heck of it, I'm trying to get my hands on some Nordost Odin's supreme reference series and see if there's anything of such great significance as they claim. I know there is but I'm beginning to wonder at what cost, at what margin of improvement / performance and what for?

 

As I've mentioned many times before, if it already sounds great or marvellous just learn to appreciate it! 

 

Then there's the other itch, that this is totally awesome, totally different and I couldn't listen without it... Wasn't that the exact damn thing I said to the previous product? And the vicious cycle continues... 

 

However, I must admit it does take a while to perfect your weaknesses, learn from the mistakes spent on snake oil, and be man enough to fess up! Once you've admitted that, the rest is plain sailing... 

 

I now tread very very cautiously.

The basics are far more important -(AC mains, system placement, listening area, room Acoustics etc.) definitely NO snake oil in those areas!

 

Trust you had a great Xmas and all the best, cheers RJ

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15 hours ago, Ittaku said:

... No one ever seems to buy something and then say it didn't improve the sound.

I think that's one reason why the Classifieds are so popular here at SNA  :winky:

Edited by lemarquis

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On 28/12/2019 at 11:08 AM, lemarquis said:

I think that's one reason why the Classifieds are so popular here at SNA  :winky:

I've seen it quite a lot in the Classifieds where people have bought something and said its not for them and they are moving it on.

Another statement is "Fantastic (whatever) and I'm having second thoughts about selling it but have upgraded" etc etc. Heaps of people make mistakes but don't like the negativity brought out into the open.

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Found out that the left wall protruding in is far from innocuous and the midrange and tweeter reflections and diffraction are quite harmful. Ordered some of these to put on the wall:

https://www.artnovion.com/product-categories/6-absorption/products/590-andrea-absorber

Edited by Ittaku

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Guest Muon N'

That's a bias, people seeing what they want to, or expect to see in patterns :angel:

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Been using Artnovian products including absorption panels for a while now. They look good and work well. 

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Artnovian acoustic panelling is outstanding! A bit expensive but not just ordinary panelling. It's like a work of art, they are also very esthetically pleasing. I've incorporated a very similar application into the walls, especially the front wall / back wall, the whole thing is heavily damped and sound proof internally. Works wonders! 

 

Con, I sincerely believe what you're hearing and how the system is performing is only around 60-70%

 

Place it in a much larger room with appropriate placement and positioning, you'll be amazed at how much of a significant improvement there is! The soundstage depth opens up and down to the very last note, is just superb! I knew that the CLX's had this potential but I was not aware by such a high margin. 

 

The last system I had experienced this level of detail retrieval, bass layering, total transparency, speed and high definition in the soundstage was with the Alsyvox ribbons driven by the Relentless amps. Price tag USD$500 grand system, including speakers, amplifiers and source gear. Mine is a fraction of that, and not by a far margin in performance either. The room and AC mains upgrades plays such an important role, many Audiophiles simply ignore it. 

 

Your open baffle speakers will really open up in a larger room, and when you experience this level, you'll wonder why on earth you've upgraded other gear for...

Just my 50cts worth. 

 

Cheers mate, RJ

Edited by Big Dog RJ

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