SolarIQ Power Voltage Control

[Assisi]

I think that I need to explain why I started this thread.  When I decided to start the thread about the SolarIQ I found that there was already post elsewhere on Stereonet  about this device from a few weeks ago.  There had been no responses to the question from the original post about the Solar IQ in the context of audio performance.  I thought the thread was lost in the wrong place and now maybe the two threads can be combined.  Maybe nobody had tried a SolarIQ

After a period of consideration, I now have a SolarIQ and can comment on its performance. 

I live in a rural area.  The voltage of the electricity supply to my house fluctuates between 240 volts and out to at least 258 volts and sometimes even slightly higher.  It is mostly above 250 volts.  As I write this post the supply voltage is 256 volts.  I have always been intrigued as to whether this makes a difference to the SQ performance of my system.  Is it better or worse as a consequence of what I consider is the reasonably high voltage? 

I have a micro inverter based solar system and I was aware that the relative performance of the micro inverters was influenced by the supply voltage.  My understanding is that as the supply voltage increases the performance of the inverters decreases especially as the voltage goes above 250 volts.  In fact, solar can shut down when the voltage hits the mid 250volts

A while ago an electrician was rewiring my phone points prior to NBN connection.  I asked him some questions about the high voltage and what could I do about it.  The electrician suggested a SolarIQ which would reduce the voltage used in the house down to a steady lower voltage.  With the SolarIQ the inverters only see the volts that it puts out.  Some experts supposedly disagree with this phenomenon.

The street supply and the solar is wired into the SolarIQ.  It is then wired to the switch board so that what goes in to the switch board and therefore the house is the setting of the SolarIQ which is all the solar sees.

With lower voltage there supposedly would be of benefit in the context of quantity of the improved solar performance, less power consumed in the house and the reduced wear and tear on appliances using the lower voltage.  The electrician also said that there may be a benefit for the SQ for the audio system.  All very interesting.   To me it became a matter that if there was a benefit to the audio so be it but it was about the potential of the dollar savings. 

My focus shifted from the audio and shifted to the potential $$$ savings overtime.  Any audio benefit became a maybe.  I decided to proceed and ordered a SolarIQ.  It was installed last Monday.  Initially software wise it was not properly set up.  It has been tweaked over the last few days.  At the beginning it fluctuated between working as it should and not working.  Today it has been fine.  The expression was that it needed to “learn my situation”.

Initially it changed randomly from the normal street supply to the controlled supply.  It went from 250+ to the control default of 220volts.  With the random changes I was subject to an enforced AB testing for the first couple of days.

When the voltage went down to the 220 volts output there was a noticeable beneficial change.  The noise floor was definitely reduced. The bass was more obvious.  I felt that I needed to turn the volume up slightly.  The most significant change was that the sound was far more lifelike and musical and there was enhanced three dimensionality.  So, there was a pleasing audio benefit. 

It was decided that the 220 volt default setting was a bit low for me as there was voltage drop in the house by the time the power reached the system of between 4 to 5 volts.  My solarIQ has now been set at a controlled 230 volts so the system gets 225 volts.  My impression is that with this higher setting that the three dimensionality has been reduced slightly.  The rest of the audio benefits are as is when the default output was 220 volts

My audio system tends to high end so to be able to achieve a benefit of an increase in the musical realism with the SolarIQ is pleasing to me.  In fact, the outcome has been surprising.  I did not expect much from the audio outcomes.  Now I do not overall care whether I get one cent of benefit in terms of the solar etc.  I started from an audio objective and went to the dollars and now it is that both are achieved.

 

I am intrigued as to what the SolarIQ has done in terms of the treatment of the power to have a noticeable beneficial impact on the audio outcome.  The impact is definite.  It took about 5 hours to install so it is not easily removed.

I have no financial interest in the company that manufactures and sells the SolarIQ whatsoever.  I am just pleased with my investment

A link

https://www.edgeelectrons.com/edgeiq

John

Edited May 17, 2018 by Assisi
words

[flanders]

John @Assisi, thanks for starting this thread (in the right place) and sharing your experience with the EdgeIQ. Btw, for anyone reading, it was me who started the thread elsewhere, John PM'd me and suggested I move it, but I never got around to it! Coincidentally, we live in the same area. Since I last looked at the website, the name has changed from SolarIQ to EdgeIQ. Just a marketing/branding tweak I guess. I really don't know much about the product - our electrician mentioned it to us when he visited  - we're having the house rewired soon, during a small reno.

 

John, how big is the unit and where is it mounted?

 

Also, for those in the know, is this statement from the product website accurate?:

"High penetration and concentration of residential solar installations has increased the overall voltage level across the Network".

 

Anyone else have experience with this product?

[Assisi]

22 hours ago, flanders said:

John, how big is the unit and where is it mounted?

@flanders

 

It  attached to the wall just above the switch board.  It si wired into the switch board.  It is 54 cm h 26 cm w x 10 cm d.

 

22 hours ago, flanders said:

Also, for those in the know, is this statement from the product website accurate?:

"High penetration and concentration of residential solar installations has increased the overall voltage level across the Network".

It is my understanding that once the the supply voltage gets to 254 volts + the solar will decline or cease entirely.  My supply is right now is 257 volts whereas everything gets just 226 volts.  My power accounts only come every 3 months.  I will know whether there has been a benefit when I receive the the account.  I do expect a benefit.  The big question is how much?  I will report back soon.

 

John

 

[Assisi]

@flanders

My first real substantive power account since I had the Solar IQ installed has arrived.  I had hoped that I would easily be able to determine whether the Solar IQ has provided to me a cost savings benefit by comparing the charges to the same period last year.  The task to prove the benefit has not been a simple as I hoped.

 

Firstly, I swapped providers at about the same as the Solar IQ was installed.  Lower rates gave me a savings benefit.  Secondly I now have a higher solar feed in tariff.  Thirdly the weather this year has been more cloudy than last year so the amount of solar generated was been a bit less.  Finally, I used more supply power this year probably because of the reduced solar production.

 

Trying to determine an outcome factoring in the above four variables has become very confusing to say the least.  Nevertheless, I consider that I am about $30 better off per month.  So the pay back period will a couple of years more than initially predicted.  Still it is winter and in summer I expect the savings situation will be better.  Eventually it will pay itself off.  Of course, there are the other benefits that I earlier outlined.

 

PM me about a visit

 

John

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Assisi
spacing

[MLXXX]

On 17/05/2018 at 10:25 PM, Assisi said:

With lower voltage there supposedly would be of benefit in the context of quantity of the improved solar performance, less power consumed in the house and the reduced wear and tear on appliances using the lower voltage.  The electrician also said that there may be a benefit for the SQ for the audio system.  All very interesting.   To me it became a matter that if there was a benefit to the audio so be it but it was about the potential of the dollar savings. 

I am prompted to contribute to this thread given the recent discussion in the Great Audio Debate part of the forum about mains voltages getting so high that some solar inverters are being forced to throttle back their output.

 

As an aside, I would note that people wishing to work out how much power has been used over a quarter at their residence may be able to use  the following formula:

 

ACTUAL POWER CONSUMPTION IN KWH = BILLED CONSUMPTION IN KWH + (INVERTER OUTPUT IN KWH - FEED IN TARIFF NUMBER OF KWH)

 

The part in brackets in the above formula, the difference between the inverter's record of what it has produced, and the electricity authority's record of what has been exported into the grid, represents the amount of consumption not recorded by the electricity authority, this consumption having been powered by the inverter.

 

A CASE STUDY - WOULD A SOLAR IQ POWER CONTROL DEVICE BENEFIT THE HOUSEHOLD OF MLXXX? (my household!)

 

The major loads are:

 

1. ELECTRIC HOT WATER SYSTEM

It could be that this circuit would not be run through a Solar IQ as there would be little or no benefit. For the sake of argument let it be assumed the electric hot water system were run through the Solar IQ. This would result in the thermostat staying on a bit longer to achieve the same heating effect. No net change in power consumption to be expected. Uncertain whether there would be any increase (or decrease) in the life of the heating elements surrounded by water.

 

2. ELECTRIC OVEN AND ELECTRIC HOTPLATES

These are controlled by thermostats. The thermostat will need to stay on for a bit longer if the supply voltage is dropped. No net change in power consumption to be expected.  It does seem distinctly possible that the life of the heating elements could be increased given that they operate at a very high temperature.

 

3. AIRCONDITIONERS

These are all of the inverter type and thus not particularly sensitive to supply voltage. No net change in power consumption to be expected.

 

4. TELEVISION SET

This uses a transformer and very possibly a switch mode power supply. No significant net change in power consumption to be expected.

 

5. REFRIGERATOR

This is a not recent model. It's longevity is probably more a matter of its plastic fittings deteriorating than its motor burning out. It is possible the power consumption would be less if the motor operated off a lower voltage and was still able to compress the refrigerant effectively.

 

6. LIGHTING - incandescent bulbs

Very few of the light bulbs are incandescent. They are lights that are used for short periods only. There would be a reduction in power usage and there would be an increase in bulb life.

 

7. LIGHTING - compact fluorescent and LED

These lights are used for long periods. On the other hand they are quite efficient. Let it be assumed that the current drain would be a little less at a lower voltage, and the longevity slightly extended. (I haven't researched those factors.)

 

Assessment for loads:

It is unclear whether the slight reductions in power consumption for 5, 6, and possibly 7, above, would offset the losses in the Solar IQ in powering 3 (the various airconditioners), and if also connected to the Solar IQ items 1 and 2 (electric hot water system, and oven + hot plates).

 

On 17/05/2018 at 10:25 PM, Assisi said:

The street supply and the solar is wired into the SolarIQ.  It is then wired to the switch board so that what goes in to the switch board and therefore the house is the setting of the SolarIQ which is all the solar sees.

The webpage at https://shop.energystuff.com.au/products/solar-iq  for a SolarIQ device sates:

• Solar efficiency
  Solar harvest is increased by up to 10%, giving you more electricity to sell back to the grid

So it seems that somehow the inverter output is able to feed back into the grid. However the increase in power exported appears to be on the assumption that the prevailing mains voltage is so high that the inverter would be in "throttle-back mode", limiting its output if it were left connected directly to the mains. That situation does not appear to arise at all for the MLXXX household as the prevailing voltages are not all that high, though it is possible it might occasionally happen.  

 

However it is also necessary to consider the extent to which the electronics in the SolarIQ designed to change the AC voltage would introduce losses when inverter power is being fed back into the grid. 

 

Assessment for solar feed-in:

It is unclear whether there would be any increase in solar feed-in kilowatt-hours, given that the inverter currently does deliver a full 5kW to the grid in the middle of the day in summer while the MLXXX household is away on holiday. It is an open question how much of the 5kW would be absorbed by the SolarIQ electronics as losses in this situation.

 

Tentative conclusion: 

Of very doubtful benefit for the MLXXX household as regards savings in power consumption, and any improvement in solar power export.

Of minor benefit for extending life of light bulbs, and possibly of oven and hot plate elements.

 

 

I note that although there is a case study hyperlink on the webpage I referenced above, it currently reports the error:  "This link has been removed.".

 

Presumably that case study did show a substantial benefit!

 

Edits:

The website refers to an EdgeIQ device. How that might differ from the SolarIQ device I don't know. It does have working links to case studies. See https://www.edgeelectrons.com/case-studies-residential.

 

The residential example about Glen Iris is very light on detail giving merely a global figure for the reduction in power consumption.

 

The residential example for Gippsland focuses on voltage lockout reducing the output of an expensive solar inverter. The inverter is able to continue to export power, despite the grid voltage already being high.

 

A separate webpage refers to an "up to 15%" reduction in "solar harvest", and states that the EdgeIQ "manages voltage lockout".  See https://www.edgeelectrons.com/edgeiq :-

 

Inefficiency and
voltage lock-out  

Solar harvest is reduced
by up to 15% and inverters automatically disconnect if voltage goes above 254 volts

Edited November 11, 2018 by MLXXX

[Assisi]

5 hours ago, MLXXX said:

The website refers to an EdgeIQ device. How that might differ from the SolarIQ device I don't know. It does have working links to case studies. See https://www.edgeelectrons.com/case-studies-residential.

@MLXXX

 

I think that there has been a name change.  When I bought it was the SolarIQ.  Now it is the EdgeIQ.. Same device.  I will respond to other matters that you have raised later as I have to go out for awhile.

 

John 

[MLXXX]

On 09/11/2018 at 4:53 PM, Assisi said:

@MLXXX

 

I think that there has been a name change.  When I bought it was the SolarIQ.  Now it is the EdgeIQ.. Same device.  I will respond to other matters that you have raised later as I have to go out for awhile.

 

John 

Ok.

 

Sometimes ignorance is bliss, and given that you already have your unit installed there might not be too much to gain at this stage from analyzing how much you're saving in kilowatt-hours consumed and how much you're gaining in kilowatt hours exported.

 

I will say this though: if you are a person who receives less per kwh as a feed-in tariff than you pay for your consumption from the grid, it makes sense to defer heavy current draws to the daytime, and preferably to periods of good sunshine.

 

And in any case just having an awareness of your consumption is useful. I have a monitoring device for current drawn from my switchboard and keep an old laptop pc running to display this graphically. On more than one occasion by glancing at that display we've been reminded that we've left something turned on (e.g. a bedroom airconditioner, an iron, an electric fry pan).

Edited November 10, 2018 by MLXXX

[Assisi]

2 minutes ago, MLXXX said:

Ok.

 

Sometimes ignorance is bliss, and given that you already have your unit installed there might not be too much to gain at this stage  by analyzing how much you've saving in kilowatt-hours consumed and how much you're gaining in kilowatt hours exported.

 

I will say this though: if you are a person who receives less per kwh as a feed-in tarrif than you pay for your consumption from the grid, it makes sense to defer heavy current draws to the daytime, and preferably to periods of good sunshine.

 

And in any case just having an awareness of your consumption is useful. I have a monitoring device for current drawn from my switchboard and keep an old laptop pc running to display this graphically. On more than one occasion by glancing at that display we've been reminded that we've left something turned on (e.g. a bedroom airconditioner, an iron, an electric fry pan).

@MLXXX

 

I forgot that I said that I was going to say more.  I need to think more how I explain my situation.  My solar provides me with real time activity information as does the EdgeIQ.  I can log on to both devices from PC, tablets or phone any where and see what is happening.  The EdgeIQ tells me what the incoming supply and house voltages are, what the solar is generating what the house is using and what is exported.  The EdgeIQ information tends to accord with the information on the solar link.

More later

 

John

 

[Assisi]

@MLXXX

 

My project with the EdgeIQ started earlier in the year when I asked the electrician who does work for me about having a dedicated circuit.  The answer was no because of the complexity of the construction of the house with stone walls etc.  The electrician who has an interest in audio himself suggested what was then the SolarIQ.  He said that there may be an audio sound benefit but that there would be savings in house running costs.

 

I became quite interested in the savings because I was told about no Solar feed out once the supply voltage was 254V+.  I knew from my audio system conditioner that my supply was regularly over 254+.  I now know that it is often 257/258V and I have seen it up 261V.  The system conditioner read out is after the 4V drop in the house.

 

The EdgeIQ was ordered and installed.  There are savings in house running costs as I am using less power.  The house only sees the regulated 230V which is 226V after the drop.  With less power in the house it is noticeable with less light level and fans run slower for example.  It is not easy to quantify the savings.  To compare year on year has been compromised because I changed providers with new charges and the winter time was not so good for solar where I live this year.  See my post above to flanders.

 

When the EdgeIQ was first installed the default setting was 220V.  This was too low for fans drill etc.  The default was reset to 230V.  Before the change which took a couple of days the audio 3D sound stage was very good.  With 230V the 3D diminished.  

 

The cooking, dishwasher and a bore pump are the three big users of power for me.  The hot water is negligible as it is a heat pump.  I run as much as I can during the daytime. The EdgeIQ may not be a benefit for you.  For me there is a savings benefit.

 

 

John

Edited November 11, 2018 by Assisi

[Guest rmpfyf]

54 minutes ago, Assisi said:

When the EdgeIQ was first installed the default setting was 220V.  This was too low for fans drill etc.  The default was reset to 230V.  Before the change which took a couple of days the audio 3D sound stage was very good.  With 230V the 3D diminished.  

So... 230-to-220VAC balanced isolation transformer next?

[MLXXX]

7 hours ago, Assisi said:

It is not easy to quantify the savings.  To compare year on year has been compromised because I changed providers with new charges and the winter time was not so good for solar where I live this year. 

With my own system I calculate actual consumption in kwh, using the formula I mentioned above.  This does not depend on tariff rates. Even if the tariff rate changes part way through the quarter it is still possible to identify the actual consumption in kwh, the actual solar production in kwh, and the solar export in kwh.

 

With my own system I compare solar power generated on the same or adjacent dates in different years (as I have been automatically uploading for years  to pvoutput.org and it is very easy to browse through the uploaded data). Provided you can find a cloudless day you can compare efficiencies fairly well.

 

In my own case, shade from neighbours' trees would affect the late afternoon production to an increasing extent  as the trees grew.  The graphs on pvoutput.org showed the time in the afternoon -- when productivity drooped ---  getting earlier, year by year. Then the trees were lopped, whereupon late afternoon productivity was fully restored! 

 

I would presume that at this time of year on a cloudless day you'll be able to get a whole day of solar production that is unaffected by any need for the microinverters to throttle back because of high grid voltage. The output for such a day should be substantially more in kwh than on a cloudless day 12 months ago if back then high grid voltages were holding back the performance of your microinverters. The shape now of the graph of solar output may  be a parabola, possibly with a flattened top if the microinverters operate at their maximum rated output for a prolonged period in the middle of the day. Below is an example from pvoutput,org of the sort of parabola shape that some people get on a near cloudless day. This curve has a glitch at around 9.35am:

 

 

 

However you may not have access to daily solar output figures from 12 months ago.  (Or, even if you do, you may not be inclined to pursue the matter further.)

 

On 17/05/2018 at 10:25 PM, Assisi said:

I have a micro inverter based solar system and I was aware that the relative performance of the micro inverters was influenced by the supply voltage.  My understanding is that as the supply voltage increases the performance of the inverters decreases especially as the voltage goes above 250 volts.  In fact, solar can shut down when the voltage hits the mid 250volts

A while ago an electrician was rewiring my phone points prior to NBN connection.  I asked him some questions about the high voltage and what could I do about it.  The electrician suggested a SolarIQ which would reduce the voltage used in the house down to a steady lower voltage.  With the SolarIQ the inverters only see the volts that it puts out. 

 

I do have a question: did you complain about excessively high voltage to your electricity provider?  If so, what was their response? 

[Assisi]

On 11/11/2018 at 6:54 PM, rmpfyf said:

So... 230-to-220VAC balanced isolation transformer next?

@rmpfyf

 

Interesting question.  I have a Gigawatt conditioner.  It has three banks of two outlets.  One set of two for digital, one analogue and the other power.  I understand that behind each set of two outlets is an isolation transformer for each bank.  The voltage that comes out is the same as what goes in.

I assume that for the time being the 226V that the system receives is fine.  I have been able to improve the sound stage 3D with  the addition of a network player feeding the DAC.

John

[Assisi]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:45 AM, MLXXX said:

With my own system I calculate actual consumption in kwh, using the formula I mentioned above.  This does not depend on tariff rates. Even if the tariff rate changes part way through the quarter it is still possible to identify the actual consumption in kwh, the actual solar production in kwh, and the solar export in kwh.

@MLXXX

 

I do watch both my solar and the EdgeIQ online. However, I haven’t done a thorough analysis as you propose up to now because of matters such as charges with a new provider, new feed in tariff and possible different weather conditions.  Also I have large trees that shade the panels and have an impact on my PV.

 

I now have a bill that enables me to compare a better year on year situation.  I generated more solar this year for a comparable period.  I don’t know whether that was because of the EdgeIQ, the weather or both.  I used less supply.  I cannot identify the precise factors that made that contribution.  Once again, I assume that the EdgeIQ contributed.  I now pay more per for supply KW than I did previously yet I am on average at least $30 per month better off at the moment.

 

The big impact will be when I run the bore pump.  That uses serious power and I run it during the day using solar.  Pumping will start soon as there has not been enough rain for the plants in my garden.  I expect over summer that I will receive the biggest benefit.  I am hopeful that the payback period will be 3 to 3.5 years. 

 

I have spoke to the provider awhile back about the supply levels.  I have a phone number to ring somebody who can makes things happen!  The response was prompt.  However, I did not follow up.  I should.  I do know that the taps on the street transformer were not balanced at one time.

 

John

Edited November 13, 2018 by Assisi