harfdef Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I have been away from Hi Fi for many years and trying to get up to speed with advances in Tech I got into vinyl when new release cds were $33( most of which went to record companies) and second hand lps were $2 each now new vinyl is, to me, expensive say $50 and cds are $2 used, or much cheaper than vinyl new. I am tempted to do a serious upgrade of my cd player and collect more silver discs The future seems to be computer audio so would it be advisable to get a cd/dac system that can accept computer input .I am clueless about using computers for music do the music rental services like spotify put out cd quality I did have a look at some hi res sites that charge fairly hefty annual fees and some of the products seemed to not be above cd quality. is other equipment beside computer and dac required to get cd and above quality. just looking for a simplified overview, other forums i have tried to search result in complex arguments.thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrC Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 If you are looking for CD quality online music then Tidal is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakabatou Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 You can also get a 3 month free trial of the Tidal "HiFi" tier via the Sennheiser CapTune app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sime Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Tidal rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfdef Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 thanks for that will give tidal a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofeline Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I have rented CDs for free from my local library! By all means get CDs when you can get them for a dollar or two. I have an Oppo CD player which accepts computer/video files for playback via USB disks - it's worked well for me to play lossless downloads (and mp3 when that has been the only option). I've never used a digital subscription, it doesn't appeal to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frameperfect Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Audio in its purest form is a sound wave. An LP has a physical copy of that soundwave imprinted on it. The needle feels the grooves on the LP, and I assume the phono stage amplifies that signal. A digital file stores the soundwave in the form of numbers which are built of 0s and 1s. Then, a DAC (digital to analogue converter) will read those numbers, and produce the corresponding electric current (the waveform). The digital file is typically stored on a CD a local HDD, or on the internet (someone elses hard drive). In order to produce a high quality analogue signal, the DAC needs a high quality digital file. This is measured in the amount of bits per second the file has. A hi-res file has over 9000kbps, a CD has 1411kbps, Spotify Extreme has 320kbps, and a lot MP3s from the early days of file sharing had 128kbps. All but the deaf can hear a difference between 128kbps and 320kbps (its very noticeable). Most people cannot hear an audible difference between 320kbps and 1411kbps (CD). But we are not most people. I find Spotify Extreme (320kbps) is excellent, and very difficult to tell from a CD. However, for critical listening purposes I prefer a 1411kbps version. That does not mean I need a CD. I have ripped most of my CDs using a free program called Foobar2000, to my hard drive, in a file format called WAV (Lossless). Lossless means that the file has not lossed any data in compression, and is a copy of what was on the CD, meaning its still 1411kbps. There are many file formats, MP3, OGG, FLAC, WAV and so on. As I said, I copied all my CDs using the WAV format, onto my hard drive. 'Streaming' devices on the market, sold from PS Audio, NAIM, and Cambridge are very expensive computers. They all vary in features. But let's say a streaming device is a computer. It can store your digital files. It might be able to access files from the internet or local devices. It will read your digital files. And it probably has a built in DAC which will convert those files into an analog signal for your amplifier to read. Personally, I use my computer, which sends the digital files to my DAC, which converts to analogue and sends to my amplifier. You don't even 'need' an external DAC anymore. A quality motherboard made in the past year now has a better DAC chip and SNR than most DACs that are older than 2 years. However, there's many other reasons why those DACs, and many old DACs might be better. There's many ways to approach digital audio. Personally, I like ripping my CDs to a computer, and keeping the CDs for my player. I can choose to play the file from my computer to my DAC, or from my CD player (which has a built in DAC). I could also plug my iphone into my DAC. But most of the time I just use the spotify player on my computer. Use a laptop, play a WAV of your CDs or play spotify 320kbps, send the signal to a DAC, send that to your amplifier. Done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) @Frameperfect Being probably a bit pedantic, but to me in the context of a physical medium in one way the CD is similar to the LP. What is on the ordinary CD is not a digital file. It is my understanding that what is on a CD are pits and troughs that are "read" by the laser in the player. In turn what is read is converted into a digital file in the CD player that can then be played via the DAC in the player. When you rip CD the pits etc are still read and converted into a digital file. John Edited May 14, 2018 by Assisi word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABG Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 @harfdef I would definitely recommend getting a DAC. You can then stream music through your PC before committing to buy the album, which is what many here do (myself included). You don't need to spend a fortune to get good results, especially if you look at something like an SMS200 in conjunction with a 2nd hand DAC in the classifieds. There are always lots of good models coming up for sale as the latest and greatest DAC's are released. If you do go down this path, I would highly recommend looking at Roon as your interface. It's expensive, but it's exceptional. Do a search, but in essence Roon accesses your library of CD's (assuming you've ripped them to a HD) while also allowing you to access Tidal seamlessly - you can't tell the difference between your CD's and the albums on Tidal. This will give you access to CD quality (and arguably higher quality) streams and open up whole worlds of new music. I've discovered so much music since purchasing Roon, it's not funny. My Roon database got corrupted a few months ago and I couldn't believe how much I missed it while the support team from Roon sorted the problem for me (lesson - back up frequently). Anyway, good luck with the journey whichever path you go down. There's so much great music out there at super affordable prices - it's a great time to be a music lover. Whether it's a great time to be a musician is a whole other story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frameperfect Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Assisi said: @Frameperfect Being probably a bit pedantic, but to me in the context of a physical medium in one way the CD is similar to the LP. What is on the ordinary CD is not a digital file. It is my understanding that what is on a CD are pits and troughs that are "read" by the laser in the player. In turn what is read is converted into a digital file in the CD player that can then be played via the DAC in the player. When you rip CD the pits etc are still read and converted into a digital file. John Not at all. You could say a similar thing about hard drives, since, technically theres still a physical media, but my distinction was more about, there not being an actual wave form like a groove on the disc. I don't know the physics behind it. I assumed those troughs are 0s and 1s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44maloo Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 +1 for streaming and Roon. Give the trial period ago on each platform you just can’t beat the library and the convenience of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfdef Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 Thanks for that very informative my only source of new music is the radio and they all seem to pick a few flavours and repeat them endlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chigurh Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 If you have a smart phone or a tablet give the Radio Paradise app a whirl. Completely free, no ads and lossless streaming of a varied selection of good music. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfdef Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 Thanks for that very informative my only source of new music is the radio and they all seem to pick a few flavours and repeat them endlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfdef Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 Thanks Chiaurg will try a bit of Paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chigurh said: If you have a smart phone or a tablet give the Radio Paradise app a whirl. Completely free, no ads and lossless streaming of a varied selection of good music. Awesome @Chigurh , thanks for the heads-up, that's a ripper. Now I may actually listen to an online station, most sound like absolute garbage, but having listened for 5 minutes so far RP sounds fantastic in lossless FLAC! Edited May 20, 2018 by Kaynin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Just one small thing. CD players for around $3000 usually make a very good sound. To get even close to that sound forget about using DAC under $1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 15 hours ago, Chigurh said: If you have a smart phone or a tablet give the Radio Paradise app a whirl. Completely free, no ads and lossless streaming of a varied selection of good music. So, who's paying for it? It is backed by some anonymous billionaire music lover? Music rights and infrastructure upkeep are not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Steffen said: So, who's paying for it? It is backed by some anonymous billionaire music lover? Music rights and infrastructure upkeep are not cheap. Radio Paradise is totally awesome and it does FLAC quality. OK so you can't actually search for or choose a particular song but you can choose to play 6 songs from a list of genres and there are unlimited skips. For a free service, I reckon it's the best, especially since Pandora is no longer available in Australia unless you use a VPN. Who really cares who is backing it so long as it stays around. They do ask for donations during the very rare Station Identification breaks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolster Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Radio Paradise (also my go-to) is publicly supported by listeners on a voluntary basis. All the info is here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Sherriff Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, wolster said: Radio Paradise (also my go-to) is publicly supported by listeners on a voluntary basis. All the info is here. I have me some RP merch, very happy to send them money to keep them 'on the air' - a great selection of music and since their app started supporting Android Auto it's even easier to keep listening in the car too! EDIT: Forgot to say, I also love that I can ask Alexa to put on Radio Paradise each morning as I get ready! Edited May 21, 2018 by PSherriff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolster Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 @harfdef If I was re-entering hi-fi now, as far as music is concerned, I would start with simply a streamer that is compatible with Tidal and internet radio stations . Roon would be a next step once I had found my way and decided on a future path. That way, you would have a huge choice of CD quality music without buying any physical media. Call me biased ('cause I have one) but a Bluesound Node 2 would do the job well at a modest cost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfdef Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 thanks wolster I have just hooked up a Denafrips Ares dac to my cd player listening to music at the moment insted of working streamer would be next on the list 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Sherriff Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, harfdef said: thanks wolster I have just hooked up a Denafrips Ares dac to my cd player listening to music at the moment insted of working streamer would be next on the list A quick and cheap way to get into streaming would be to add a Chromecast Audio and use the optical output to your existing DAC. For about $60 you can't really argue with the value and it sounds pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 hours ago, wolster said: Radio Paradise (also my go-to) is publicly supported by listeners on a voluntary basis. All the info is here. Ah, so it's listener supported, like 2MBS/3MBS FM. I like that. Often, when a service is supposedly free, the user winds up being the merchandise... Just installed the AppleTV app, thanks for the tip! My OLED TV also says thanks, for not showing a static CD cover or something, but an image slide show with Ken Burns effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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