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Mike13

PS Audio vs Devialet

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16 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Oops. My bad. Sorry Max

No problems Sir Sanders. These things are affected by so many factors! I'm actually questioning whether everything was right but the owner assured me it was a few years old (so its burnt in) and I personally checked that it was running Redcoud and left it on, so likstening on the second night, the DAC had been switched on for quite some time. I actually wanted/thought the DSJ would be up there with the rest of the DACs so I'm scratching my head after reading so many rave reviews. My only question is the screen said Redcloud 0.0.0 See attached photo. Can anyone advise if that all looks right and would give the improvement everyone says the latest firmware delivers? I work in IT so I know how to update firmware, and I did grab the latest release just incase there had been an incremental update, and tried loading the firmware but nothing happened. So I assume its up to date.

IMG_8927.JPG

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2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Wrong question.

 

The correct question is:

 

"Under what conditions did you listen and was it a proper double blind comparison?"

 

If it was not a DBT, then personal bias was likely the over-riding factor in the conclusion.

 

You are working on the basis that I had a preconceived perception on the Dev, which I did not. I only knew that I didn't want to listen to any gear that I could not afford because if it was so much better than what I could afford then I would want it and not be happy with my purchase. 

 

Before you say well then you had a bias against any gear that you could not afford so subconsciously that is why you decided you didn't like the Dev or some other bs at roughly the same time I listened to the then way outside my budget Martin Logan 15a dipoles and as I have reported on this forum previously, I stopped listening to them after one and a half minutes or so because they sounded so very very good and again I knew that if I listened to much to them then I would never be happy with my speaker purchase. I listened to the Dev with a open mind and no bias and decided it was not for me, end of story.

 

Again I invite you to reflect on what you write Zaph and how you address people. It would be nice to read your very knowledgeable posts without it often coming across that your basically telling those who don't agree with you or whom you don't agree with how stupid or wrong they are, because that is how it comes across quite often.

 

regards Terry

Edited by TerryO

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

Interesting thread, but heating up. Guys, please do not spoil it...

 

Sorry. Must go get another coffee.

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17 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Sorry. Must go get another coffee.

and some more popcorn.....?

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1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

No problems Sir Sanders. These things are affected by so many factors! I'm actually questioning whether everything was right but the owner assured me it was a few years old (so its burnt in) and I personally checked that it was running Redcoud and left it on, so likstening on the second night, the DAC had been switched on for quite some time. I actually wanted/thought the DSJ would be up there with the rest of the DACs so I'm scratching my head after reading so many rave reviews. My only question is the screen said Redcloud 0.0.0 See attached photo. Can anyone advise if that all looks right and would give the improvement everyone says the latest firmware delivers? I work in IT so I know how to update firmware, and I did grab the latest release just incase there had been an incremental update, and tried loading the firmware but nothing happened. So I assume its up to date.

IMG_8927.JPG

Hi,

 

Mine reads:
"redcloud 3.5.1"

I and a few people who posted on the PS Audio forum had issues with the update. I had to do a roll back and try it a second time as the first went astray. I updated from Huron to Redcloud and it sounded like ASS the first time I updated, so I knew, without DBT that something was wrong. 

So grab the image for the previous version and roll back to that then update to Redcloud again and don't forget to power cycle after each firmware flash. Once you've done that, check the Bridge firmware too as it may start to report that an update is available for that too.

 

Edited by scumbag
DBT

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1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Although your question was highly impertinent, I will respond as best as I am able:

 

Double blind testing is, at present the best form of testing we have. In many areas, from pharmaceuticals to audio. An highly contentious claim was made. Such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. A DBT would be suitable evidence. 

 

FWIW: I've listened to several Devialet amps, under both sighted and blind conditions. They are, by any measure, exceptionally fine sounding products. 

 

Completely Agreed. The Devialet 200 is really good value amp and it can be as good as many multi-boxes system that at a lot higher price if not beating them.

 

Devialet can sound bright when the synergy with the rest of system is not there, its a very revealing amp.

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42 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Hi,

 

Mine reads:
"redcloud 3.5.1"

I and a few people who posted on the PS Audio forum had issues with the update. I had to do a roll back and try it a second time as the first went astray. I updated from Huron to Redcloud and it sounded like ASS the first time I updated, so I knew, without DBT that something was wrong. 

So grab the image for the previous version and roll back to that then update to Redcloud again and don't forget to power cycle after each firmware flash. Once you've done that, check the Bridge firmware too as it may start to report that an update is available for that too.

 

I’m going to grab the DSJ and try that and report back early next week

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I don't want to deviate from the OP's original question too much.

 

But if you are considering Devialet, may I also recommend looking at the new Micromega M One. I have had one for around 1 week  now, and I am very happy with the sound it produces, even a little astonished TBH. One of the main differences between it and the DEV is that it is class A/B architecture. The build and sound is really fantastic.

 

http://www.krispyaudio.com.au/products/Micromega-M%2dOne-integrated-amplifier.html

 

m one.png

micromega_m-one_4.png

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44 minutes ago, Ray H said:

I don't want to deviate from the OP's original question too much.

 

But if you are considering Devialet, may I also recommend looking at the new Micromega M One. I have had one for around 1 week  now, and I am very happy with the sound it produces, even a little astonished TBH. One of the main differences between it and the DEV is that it is class A/B architecture. The build and sound is really fantastic.

 

http://www.krispyaudio.com.au/products/Micromega-M%2dOne-integrated-amplifier.html

 

m one.png

micromega_m-one_4.png

It looks even more like a set of scales than the Devialet. I like the Micromega stuff. It would be interesting to hear how it compares to the Dev'

Edited by scumbag

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Lots of action on this thread. Look forward to catching up after work. 

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1 hour ago, scumbag said:

It looks even more like a set of scales than the Devialet. I like the Micromega stuff. It would be interesting to hear how it compares to the Dev'

Absolutely, they nailed it from that angle, if it was on the floor you would be tempted to stand on it.

 

it sounds really nice, though, I have heard a few devialets  and wasn’t enamoured of their sound sig. I do like the sound of the m one though, it manages organic with good detail resolution and very good imaging. Quite surprising given the 100 watt rating and size of it.

Edited by Ray H

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On 10/05/2018 at 1:57 PM, scumbag said:

The Giesler Grob DAC is worth having a listen to. It might also get you that Preamp functionality that you need. You'll then need a device to stream to it unless you use a PC or MAC. More $$$$$

I demoed it but couldn’t hear a huge difference between it and my Bluesound Node. It makes me wonder about my 2Qute vs Bluesound. I’ll do this test. 

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I don't want to deviate from the OP's original question too much.
 
But if you are considering Devialet, may I also recommend looking at the new Micromega M One. I have had one for around 1 week  now, and I am very happy with the sound it produces, even a little astonished TBH. One of the main differences between it and the DEV is that it is class A/B architecture. The build and sound is really fantastic.
 
http://www.krispyaudio.com.au/products/Micromega-M%2dOne-integrated-amplifier.html
 
159488144_mone.png.01e679b23f22f53a6a51619fc7a6c6f0.png
micromega_m-one_4.thumb.png.bba9fd5c12077f81e2387311ef8db973.png


I heard this M one box, I didn’t like how it’s sounded. But it’s only me.

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19 hours ago, scumbag said:

Sounds like the DSJ was on Huron. Red Cloud is / was a massive jump.

I don’t understand why a company would release a product that isn’t ready at the time of release. If a firmware upgrade makes a massive jump shouldn’t they have held off on the release?

 

I used to own a Meitner MA1 Dac and in the few years I owned it there was only one upgrade. They got it right at the time of release. 

Edited by PKay

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1 hour ago, everydayIs25 said:

 


I heard this M one box, I didn’t like how it’s sounded. But it’s only me.

 

Thanks for the detailed feedback, very enlightening !

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16 minutes ago, PKay said:

I don’t understand why a company would release a product that isn’t ready at the time of release. If a firmware upgrade makes a massive jump shouldn’t they have held off on the release?

 

I used to own a Meitner MA1 Dac and in the few years I owned it there was only one upgrade. They got it right at the time of release. 

They did have it right at launch. But now they have it righter.

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5 minutes ago, scumbag said:

They did have it right at launch. But now they have it righter.

Too right. 

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7 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

I’m going to grab the DSJ and try that and report back early next week

I’ve read about this issue as well, look forward to finding out if this makes an improvement  to the dac for you

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8 hours ago, Ray H said:

I don't want to deviate from the OP's original question too much.

 

But if you are considering Devialet, may I also recommend looking at the new Micromega M One. I have had one for around 1 week  now, and I am very happy with the sound it produces, even a little astonished TBH. One of the main differences between it and the DEV is that it is class A/B architecture. The build and sound is really fantastic.

 

http://www.krispyaudio.com.au/products/Micromega-M%2dOne-integrated-amplifier.html

 

m one.png

micromega_m-one_4.png

Looks good and I like the room correction option because I don’t think the Devialet would know my speakers. Would have to work with Tidal or Roon though. Does it upsample? I think the other two do. Not half the price of the Dev, almost the same.

 

How does it compare to the Devialet? Did you do a comparison?

Edited by Mike13

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Looks good and I like the room correction option because I don’t think the Devialet would know my speakers. Would have to work with Tidal or Roon though. Does it upsample? I think the other two do. Not half the price of the Dev, almost the same.
 
How does it compare to the Devialet? Did you do a comparison?


The world’s best amp doesn’t do speaker or room optimisation, I suggest you get the chance to listen to both.

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Thanks for the detailed feedback, very enlightening !


No need to thanks me, it wasn’t for you anyway.

I just found i pointless to argue here the best way is suggest the OP few options and let him go and try to listen to it.

If I have to say I think Devialet sound more detailed and less coloured sound to me.

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1 hour ago, Mike13 said:

Looks good and I like the room correction option because I don’t think the Devialet would know my speakers. Would have to work with Tidal or Roon though. Does it upsample? I think the other two do. Not half the price of the Dev, almost the same.

 

How does it compare to the Devialet? Did you do a comparison?

I’m not entirely sure if it upsamples to be honest, I know it has a 32 bit dac and does dsd. The dac stage sounded a little laid back initially, but is sounding better and better as it runs in.

 

i have not heard the Devialet and the m one side by side, but owned a dev 120 for a while. Personally I find the m one listenable, whereas I did not like the tone of the dev, I found it processed sounding and it did not last long in my system. I’m sure they can sound very nice in the right system though, different models and software versions affecting the sound quality. Admittedly the m one is a dev copy, but totally different implementation, architecture and outcome. The room correction is an extra on the m one also.

 

The m one is not currently a Roon endpoint, but can work via Bluetooth apparently.

 

Ultimately it would be of benefit to hear them side by side, but that would be difficult I expect, as I don’t know of any dealers that sell both.

 

Good luck with your search, nice products you are looking at.

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I’m not entirely sure if it upsamples to be honest, I know it has a 32 bit dac and does dsd. The dac stage sounded a little laid back initially, but is sounding better and better as it runs in.

 

i have not heard the Devialet and the m one side by side, but owned a dev 120 for a while. Personally I find the m one listenable, whereas I did not like the tone of the dev, I found it processed sounding and it did not last long in my system. I’m sure they can sound very nice in the right system though, different models and software versions affecting the sound quality. Admittedly the m one is a dev copy, but totally different implementation, architecture and outcome. The room correction is an extra on the m one also.

 

The m one is not currently a Roon endpoint, but can work via Bluetooth apparently.

 

Ultimately it would be of benefit to hear them side by side, but that would be difficult I expect, as I don’t know of any dealers that sell both.

 

Good luck with your search, nice products you are looking at.

 

No Offend, but it’s really a joke if anyone think the M-One is better than Devialet. If you do some study on the power supply unit that Devialet did in the Expert and compare to the one in M-One, M-One is a joke, especially the PSU in Expert Pro series probably one of the best SMPS PSU. And then you learn how important PSU is for all amps especially amps contains class d component. The M-One is by far worse than Devialet.

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9 minutes ago, everydayIs25 said:

 


No Offend, but it’s really a joke if anyone think the M-One is better than Devialet. If you do some study on the power supply unit that Devialet did in the Expert and compare to the one in M-One, M-One is a joke, especially the PSU in Expert Pro serious probably one of the best SMPS PSU.

 

Apparently not everyone gets the "joke". These were totally fooled and thought the power supply was for real:

image.png.2164090567fd3563d0ef8500d51ccdea.png

And what part of the power supply strikes you are a joke?

http://www.micromega.com/downloads/white-paper-UK-v2.pdf

 

http://www.powerelectronics.com/power-management/resonant-power-supply-suits-audio-systems

 

Edited by scumbag

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6 minutes ago, everydayIs25 said:

 

No Offend, but it’s really a joke if anyone think the M-One is better than Devialet. If you do some study on the power supply unit that Devialet did in the Expert and compare to the one in M-One, M-One is a joke, especially the PSU in Expert Pro series probably one of the best SMPS PSU. And then you learn how important PSU is for all amps especially amps contains class d component. The M-One is by far worse than Devialet.

Having owned a Devialet Expert 200 for some time and learning quite a bit about it I think it is difficult to question the technology and innovative thinking that has gone into this product. The specs are amazing! and I am very impressed by them.

 

The thing that replaced it has worse specs yet I prefer it. Not straight forward this audio stuff me thinks! 

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