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First question: which projector should I choose, the Epson EH-TW9300 or the JVC DLA-X5900?

 

This is the room I''ll be working with. Please ignore the mess. We've just moved/are moving in ?

livingroom.thumb.jpg.715ce87f953dfaf54ea353ff11b001ba.jpg

 

I'm going to close up the wall behind the TV and that'll be where the screen goes, 120" 2.35:1 at least. It's 4.4m wide. The room is 6.3m long.

 

This is the room with all the blinds closed so there is a bit of light that gets in at the moment but I'd put up some blackouts. There's a lot of light getting in through that open door at the back too which won't be there. So it's a multi-use room and there may be some ambient light.

 

Acoustics will be awful as is but I'll sort that out later. What I'm trying to sort out here is the projector. I'll use it for movies, console gaming and HD TV watching; I've never had a pj before so this is what I'd like to do with it at least.

 

I have read up on the TW9300 and X5900 and am familiar with the pros and cons but there are a few I can't get a gauge on. So these are the things I like about the 2 pjs:

 

TW9300

  • Is more often recommended for non-dedicated/lighter rooms
  • Is better for gaming

 

X5900

  • Sounds like it would have the best quality image/contrast (would this be the case in my room? If the X5900 can handle the non-dedicated environment I'm leaning towards it but I'm just not sure)
  • Does not suffer from the 10Gbps HDMI limitation that the TW9300 suffers from and possible compatibility/HDR issues (big negative for the TW9300 for me but is that really the case?)
  • Is good enough for gaming as this model has a lower lag setting (Is that true?)

 

So my remaining concerns centre around the light in the room, gaming lag and the 10Gbps limitation.

 

Which would you choose? Happy to hear other alternatives but these are the 2 I'm leaning (heavily) towards.

 

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the light in the room will be a concern for BOTH projectors. you have to remove 1st any sources of direct light and any indirect will impact. 

 

that window with the blinds will need pelmet and full block out blinds. if the big opening at other end is filled in then no longer a concern. but yes you 100 % dont want light coming in via that window to go straight onto the screen will kill all goodness ! 

 

I've owned a couple of epsons and a couple of JVCs. and in a non dedicated room.

 

1st lets get the misnomer out the way from those that suggest an epson over jvc in non dedicated room (white walls non black hole theatre). I think they feel the greater black capability of the jvc is lost ? well my experience hasnt been the case. what I have actually found is the jvcs have more blacks up the sleeve and hence end up still better in the same situation !  I think also where the misnomer perhaps comes from way way back when epsons were relative light cannons too vs jvc which back then a bit weaker in output. however its been years since thats swapped around the jvcs pump out some serious output these days so if planning to run in room with ambient light for non critical viewing they do just fine :)

 

gaming wise both have gaming modes. I dont see that as a drama. the epsons big draw back is the not upto snuff hdmi board. you'd hope they get that sorted next release. the jvc one big huge advantage is the 5900 basically gets optics and most of basics of the upper model jvcs and they are stunners very sharp optics vs epson. The upper model are better but at a cost and for the money the 5900 is great buying... if can pick up a older 7x00 series i woudl certainly grab it as they do come up as well. dont get me wrong the epsons are great value for money i loved the two models i had but the jvc are a step up and worth grabbing if can afford.

 

the room is HUGE and 120" scope for a room 6.3m ! long room sounds a bit off. lets say sitting at 2/3rd room length thats 4.2m viewing distance.... am thinking 130" scope is probably more needed. also keep in mind larger you go in screen the more light throws off more reflection over those white walls and ceiling. closer too likely the screen to the ceiling....

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Thanks al. That’s exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

I love your lounge room. I’ll definitely put in pelmets and full block out blinds. I’ve actually thought of trying to DIY these but it’ll probably be a PITA, particularly the pelmets. Are professionals the way to go?

 

There is a double door up the back and I’ll add a block out blind if required.
Regarding screen size I’m planning on experimenting. Working out my preferred viewing angle - and that of the wife’s - is going to be a major part of owning my first projector. With the throw distance I’ve got I’m actually going to experiment right up to 150”. The plan is to start with a black widow painted wall so I can change the screen size easily.

 

The viewing distance will probably be based on the plans I have for a dedicated room which will have two rows of seating. The false/baffle wall for the AT screen will be ~0.3m. Viewing distance to first row ~3.4m. Second row 1.8m back from first. Then at least ~0.8m to back wall. ~0.2m of treatments. I’m going to try and keep the viewing distance to ~3.4m so it translates to my grand plans. They’ll eventuate… one day… hopefully. I’m thinking I’ll settle somewhere in the 45-50 degrees viewing angle range but who knows? Once I settle on an angle I can concentrate on optimising the current room as is.
 

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2 hours ago, br0d0 said:

I love your lounge room. I’ll definitely put in pelmets and full block out blinds. I’ve actually thought of trying to DIY these but it’ll probably be a PITA, particularly the pelmets. Are professionals the way to go?

thanks brodo, our pelmets and blinds cost us a bit but really worth it. and yes not worth trying yourself. where ever you are check local papers there is likely someone working from home that does this thing day in day out and get something done pretty affordably but still with quality fabrics and good end result. 

 

2 hours ago, br0d0 said:

There is a double door up the back and I’ll add a block out blind if required.
Regarding screen size I’m planning on experimenting. Working out my preferred viewing angle - and that of the wife’s - is going to be a major part of owning my first projector. With the throw distance I’ve got I’m actually going to experiment right up to 150”. The plan is to start with a black widow painted wall so I can change the screen size easily.

great to hear planning to experiment to find what best suits needs :) after all a lot of these things are down to preference as well. I myself have found sitting around 2.2 screen heights is the sweet spot for varying diet of stuff we tend to watch from fta tv to streaming, still some DVD, blu-ray and uhd and gaming on top as well. I'd be careful going too big... keep in mind the larger you go the more you are pushing things with projector output and harder it will be to experience gains with HDR material... which need output ! you want atleast 100nits output to enjoy benefits of HDR. go too large in screen and will end up needing to  run in high lamp ... which just reduces what have up the sleeve in output and lamp life. also keep in mind with scope screens that all material is infact 16:9 so unless using a scope lens you will be zooming in which case. a 150" scope screen has a 3515 screen width which equates to a 16:9 screen size of ... 160" ...  and alternatively if watching 16:9 material on it you will only have equivalent height of a 120" 16:9 screen  

 

2 hours ago, br0d0 said:

The viewing distance will probably be based on the plans I have for a dedicated room which will have two rows of seating. The false/baffle wall for the AT screen will be ~0.3m. Viewing distance to first row ~3.4m. Second row 1.8m back from first. Then at least ~0.8m to back wall. ~0.2m of treatments. I’m going to try and keep the viewing distance to ~3.4m so it translates to my grand plans. They’ll eventuate… one day… hopefully. I’m thinking I’ll settle somewhere in the 45-50 degrees viewing angle range but who knows? Once I settle on an angle I can concentrate on optimising the current room as is.

yeah I tend to like the thx spec for immersion... which works well to over resolve 1080p but also give gains with uhd material but not too crazy that lower grade material ie sub 1080p looks bad ! 

 

id be careful sitting 3.4m as that is close to middle of room of a room 6.3m long ...id be looking at more like 4.2m from original front wall (not false wall) for best acoustics :) will put back seats closer to back walls but I wouldnt bother about that too much :D most people dont ! 

 

but yeah sounds like have plenty of lee way to explore so am sure will find what is best for you and in your setting :)

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Thanks again, Al.

Some points I hadn’t considered in relation to the 100nits output and the required lamp.

And I think I see what you’re saying about the 16:9 vs 21:9. If I go a 150” scope screen the 16:9 image has to be the same height which is about 120”. Is that right?

I have demoed Mad Max Fury Road in scope and I do have my heart set on it. That said, I take your point about the conversion between each aspect. That’s something I will no doubt get a better handle on once I’ve got one. Lens memory should come in handy. I think I’ll end up settling on something around 120”-130” scope in the end.

On 25/04/2018 at 12:32 PM, :) al said:

id be careful sitting 3.4m as that is close to middle of room of a room 6.3m long ...id be looking at more like 4.2m from original front wall (not false wall) for best acoustics :) will put back seats closer to back walls but I wouldnt bother about that too much :D most people dont ! 

 

 

 

Hmm so sitting at half the room length is bad hey? Is this something that can be treated with acoustic panels or is it just a law of nature type thing?

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Apoligies but... it looks like I’m going to learn a lesson the hard way.

 

Two months ago I got impatient and put a deposit on a TW9300 from a NSW retailer. I'm a dill, I know. This was after I noticed that they listed on eBay for around $3,600. I called them and they said it was a mistake and by the end of the call I’d put a deposit on a TW9300 for just over $4,000. This included a mount and a 10m HDMI cable.

 

I've just tried to cancel the order and get a refund of my deposit but they’re going to charge me a 25% restock fee. I don’t know how leaving an item (that is nowhere near selling out) in your warehouse for 2 months equates to over $1,000 but whatever.

 

Looks like I'm stuck with the TW9300, which isn't the worst pj mind you. I could upgrade to a JVC but they're $1K more expensive than other retailers anyway and I don't like the idea of giving them more money now. A restock fee of a couple of hundred I could live with but 25% of $4.190 is a bit OTT.

 

Apologies again for my rant ?

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35 minutes ago, br0d0 said:

Some points I hadn’t considered in relation to the 100nits output and the required lamp.

And I think I see what you’re saying about the 16:9 vs 21:9. If I go a 150” scope screen the 16:9 image has to be the same height which is about 120”. Is that right?

yep 150 scope screen has same height as a 120" 16:9

 

35 minutes ago, br0d0 said:

Hmm so sitting at half the room length is bad hey? Is this something that can be treated with acoustic panels or is it just a law of nature type thing?

can spend a life time of effort and money trying to fix. Since will be sitting in null if place yourself in middle of the room. will need a LOT of treatments and no amount eq will fix :D  

 

20 minutes ago, br0d0 said:

Apologies again for my rant ?

live and learn I guess, they hold all the cards unfortunately. maybe try negotiating an upgrade.... then you hold some of the cards ... ie i will upgrade but at this cost.....

 

problem for them is they wont move the epson at anything like what you paid... so for them it would be a bum deal. but never know ...  either way not end of the world ! 

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Posted (edited)
On 27/04/2018 at 4:00 PM, :) al said:

live and learn I guess, they hold all the cards unfortunately. maybe try negotiating an upgrade.... then you hold some of the cards ... ie i will upgrade but at this cost.....

Yeah that's right. I'll keep my impulse buys in check from now on. I'm normally good but this theatre obsession has got me.

Edited by br0d0

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10 minutes ago, br0d0 said:

Yeah that's right. I'll keep my impulse buys in check from now on. I'm normally good but this theatre obsession has got me.

 

 I tried negotiating. Can get the X7900 for $6.8K with mount and HDMI cable; I tried for less but no dice. X5900 for 4.6K I'd say. I'm thinking about it.

Skip the mount and hdmi cable as Likely get cheaper direct eg the peerless Mount from B&h(unlikely they are giving you anything like it anyways) and hdmi can get the comsol 4k 10m from office works for $69

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14 minutes ago, :) al said:

Skip the mount and hdmi cable as Likely get cheaper direct eg the peerless Mount from B&h(unlikely they are giving you anything like it anyways) and hdmi can get the comsol 4k 10m from office works for $69

Not an option unfortunately. They're both listed on their site at very high prices so must be the standard sweeteners with very little actual value. I'm trapped.

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1 hour ago, :) al said:

Skip the mount and hdmi cable as Likely get cheaper direct eg the peerless Mount from B&h(unlikely they are giving you anything like it anyways) and hdmi can get the comsol 4k 10m from office works for $69

Will the officeworks cable be sufficient? I'd have my doubts. 

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Just now, flamjam said:

Will the officeworks cable be sufficient? I'd have my doubts. 

yes proven. i and others have been using successfully with multiple uhd source gear and have passed a gazzilion uhds through over the last year or so. so absolutely yes. dont waste your money on anything else unless planning to go over 10m ie 11m + for which there is no solution than fibre in the ruipro which is multiples more.

 

but if 10m or below just get the office works cable below,

 

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/comsol-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-10m-cohdmi100

 

if needing under 7m you can go a mono price premium certified

 

and under 2m happily use anything as long as a high speed hdmi.

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35 minutes ago, :) al said:

yes proven. i and others have been using successfully with multiple uhd source gear and have passed a gazzilion uhds through over the last year or so. so absolutely yes. dont waste your money on anything else unless planning to go over 10m ie 11m + for which there is no solution than fibre in the ruipro which is multiples more.

 

but if 10m or below just get the office works cable below,

 

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/comsol-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-10m-cohdmi100

 

if needing under 7m you can go a mono price premium certified

 

and under 2m happily use anything as long as a high speed hdmi.

Nice!! 

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38 minutes ago, :) al said:

yes proven. i and others have been using successfully with multiple uhd source gear and have passed a gazzilion uhds through over the last year or so. so absolutely yes. dont waste your money on anything else unless planning to go over 10m ie 11m + for which there is no solution than fibre in the ruipro which is multiples more.

 

but if 10m or below just get the office works cable below,

 

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/comsol-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-10m-cohdmi100

 

if needing under 7m you can go a mono price premium certified

 

and under 2m happily use anything as long as a high speed hdmi.

And are you getting 4:4:4 with that cable? 

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19 minutes ago, flamjam said:

And are you getting 4:4:4 with that cable? 

yes 100% I wouldnt suggest if i wasnt, I am getting 4k 50/60 4:4:4 full hdmi bandwidth across multiple sources oppo 205, xbox one X and apple TV 4k and before that pana 900 and oppo 203

 

 

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2 hours ago, :) al said:

yes 100% I wouldnt suggest if i wasnt, I am getting 4k 50/60 4:4:4 full hdmi bandwidth across multiple sources oppo 205, xbox one X and apple TV 4k and before that pana 900 and oppo 203

 

 

Awesome! I'll have to grab one. Thanks for the info! 

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19 minutes ago, flamjam said:

Awesome! I'll have to grab one. Thanks for the info! 

as with any cable, make sure testwell before running into house though roofs/under house etc just in case have a dud or something. I tested mine a good month before plumbing through. good thing with office works is their return policy if not happy is cast iron no questions. some of the bother with uhd is the hdcp handshakes that need to happen, a lot of this is down to equipment in question and combination and how works together so hopefully what ever go for all behaves ! as should. :) 

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On 27/04/2018 at 4:39 PM, :) al said:

Skip the mount and hdmi cable as Likely get cheaper direct eg the peerless Mount from B&h(unlikely they are giving you anything like it anyways) and hdmi can get the comsol 4k 10m from office works for $69

It looks like we may have come to terms. I'm currently leaning towards the X7900 without the mount and cable. I picked up a 10m Comsol cable today so will have to pick up a Peerless Mount. Is the Peerless-AV PRG Precision Gear Projector Mount (PRG-UNV) the go? And would I need an extension pole to mount on a 2.4m high ceiling with screen ~0.6m off the ground?

 

I'm glad the issue will be resolved, even if my spend went up. By all reports it's a fantastic projector. The experience with the 25% restock fee really took the joy out of this for a little while but the excitement is back ? 

 

I'm totally paranoid I'm going to get an ex-demo model now so I'll be examining the box very carefully when I take delivery ?

 

Now to decide on a UHD Blu-ray player...

 

Thanks

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6 minutes ago, br0d0 said:

It looks like we may have come to terms. I'm currently leaning towards the X7900 without the mount and cable. I picked up a 10m Comsol cable today so will have to pick up a Peerless Mount. Is the Peerless-AV PRG Precision Gear Projector Mount (PRG-UNV) the go? And would I need an extension pole to mount on a 2.4m high ceiling with screen ~0.6m off the ground?

 

I'm glad the issue will be resolved, even if my spend went up. By all reports it's a fantastic projector. The experience with the 25% restock fee really took the joy out of this for a little while but the excitement is back ? 

 

I'm totally paranoid I'm going to get an ex-demo model now so I'll be examining the box very carefully when I take delivery ?

 

Now to decide on a UHD Blu-ray player...

 

Thanks

 

 

good to hear the 7900 would be an excellent choice ! and glad getting it without the mount and cable as have no doubt be a fair bit of margin built in those :D 

 

this is the peerless,

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/525470-REG/Peerless_Industries_PRG_UNV_PRG_UNV_Precision_Gear_Projector.html

 

as can see there are threaded rods can buy and then would need the ceiling plate as well. I would try avoid going the pole though and with a 2.4m ceiling i would suspect not necessary though its very much installation specific. depending on throw, size of screen etc. there is a chart if i remember in the manual, and likely something on the jvc website as well. though id just wait till get the projector and play around with projecting on wall to see what works. most seem to get away with ceiling mounts :) poles tend to become a necessity more with very high ceilings eg 2.7+  

 

600mm off floor seems a little low ? will it mean centre speaker will end up firing at your shins ?  I tend to find eye level to bottom of screen to bottom third seems to work in setups have seen. 

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Hi,

 

when you say avoid the pole is it because of aesthetics or because it’s weak structurally?

 

thanks.

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15 minutes ago, k3nnis888 said:

when you say avoid the pole is it because of aesthetics or because it’s weak structurally?

just added complication, thats not needed in typical setups. since will need to buy ceiling plate, pole affix and yes aesthetically its just not as neat especially given in most setups I've seen the jvc able to be used directly ceiling mounted :)

 

but yeah if have taller than 2.7m ceilings and given specific arrangement there might be no other option but to use pole which i can appreciate.

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Hi guys, just read this thread - the title grabbed my attention 'cos I was just about to pull the trigger on a TW9300. I was going to pay $4K for the TW9300 but then read this thread and see that the X5900 is selling for just $100 more. Again, I'll have a non-dedicated room (so there will be some ambient light, will be used to watch TV as well as movies, etc), which is why I had all but decided on the TW9300 (mainly for its brightness). But would I be mad to pay $4K for the TW9300 when I can get the X5900 for $4.1K? Is it unquestionably a better PJ overall? Will its relatively lower light output make me regret switching at this late stage? Sorry for the repetitive questions, but like br0d0 this will be my first foray into PJs and I really have no experience/idea!

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2 minutes ago, bugster70 said:

But would I be mad to pay $4K for the TW9300 when I can get the X5900 for $4.1K?

be mad to yes !  for a $100 difference. 

 

2 minutes ago, bugster70 said:

Is it unquestionably a better PJ overall?

covered these already here quite a bit :)

 

2 minutes ago, bugster70 said:

Will its relatively lower light output make me regret switching at this late stage?

this is a myth... long gone... the jvcs pack some serious output and have done for a while  ...  ! and especially once calibrate. the higher output settings i found on epsons were were a bit wild :D in the colour balance and un naturalness of picture once move up in the power settings. I wouldnt use anything bar their lowest eco setting.

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@:) al, you're always so quick to reply with very helpful advice, thank you! Hmm, I had read about using the need to use Epson's lower settings for better picture quality on the forum before but had forgotten about this. Makes a bit of a mockery of the high lumens rating if you never use that setting I guess! Ok, I'm really glad I read this thread now because, as I said, I was literally about the go ahead with the TW9300 (was probably going to confirm the order/pay a deposit today!). Whew, thank goodness for this forum...

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