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jkn

Satori 2018

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1 hour ago, Peter the Greek said:

Will DEQX "correct" or "smooth" that out?

"Doing" the smoothing it out is trivial....  the more complex question is which bits should be adjusted, and by how much (if any at all).   A perfectly flat line is nice to see, but it's important to keep in mind what it represents (or doesn't).   A single point in space, of all the sound summed over time .... delayed, reflected/diffracted sound from the environment.

 

1 hour ago, jkn said:

I have done some setting this morning

Good progress.  You work fast  :) 

 

Can you tell us, for the individual driver measurements ... how were they taken?   I assume the microphone was placed close to each driver?    If so, do you input any other microphone measurements into the DEQX for it to calculate it's correction filter(s)?   Like individual driver responses at the listen position, or the overall summed response at the listening position?

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Does the DEQX sum and average out a number of measurement positions?

 

@jkn whats the smoothing the DEQX applies to the measurements? can you change it like REW? (sorry for the pedantic questions, I've been toying with buying one)

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1 hour ago, CamSemp said:

Just wondering if you coated the ply with a clear coat or something?

Ok Sorry  > the ply comes with veneer and also painted with clear  

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5 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Good progress.  You work fast  :) 

 

Can you tell us, for the individual driver measurements ... how were they taken?   I assume the microphone was placed close to each driver?    If so, do you input any other microphone measurements into the DEQX for it to calculate it's correction filter(s)?   Like individual driver responses at the listen position, or the overall summed response at the listening position?

3

Yes I need to as I have only a few days of work 

 

OK, you are right the 3 drivers measurements (3 WAY) are taken on an axis of the individual driver at distance 100mm

 

Measurement for the filter is taken on axis with the tweeter at 0.8m

meas_cal.jpg

 

As I mentioned (I think in this thread) I do not use close measurements for calibration file in multiple (driver) enclosures. Single box (sub) close measurement is fine. 

 

 

 

Edited by jkn

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1 hour ago, Peter the Greek said:

Does the DEQX sum and average out a number of measurement positions?

 

@jkn whats the smoothing the DEQX applies to the measurements? can you change it like REW? (sorry for the pedantic questions, I've been toying with buying one)

I don't think DEQX does a sum of the measurement positions you have to take them your self if you like. You can do smoothing in DEQX but as I sad before the scale and measurements /graphs look a bit different compared to other software    

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cal5a.jpg

 

cal5.jpg

 

cal5b.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by jkn

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midrange.jpg

 

bass.jpg

 

fcal_01.jpg

 

fcal_02.jpg

 

fcal_03.jpg

 

fcal_04.jpg

 

fcal_05.jpg

 

fcal_06.jpg

 

fcal_07.jpg

 

fcal_08.jpg

 

fcal_09.jpg

 

fcal_10.jpg

Edited by jkn

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On 26/12/2018 at 12:19 PM, jkn said:

pictures

Speaker looks very nice!

 

What are you trying to show in each of the pictures?   (I can read what they are ....but what are you trying to say about them?)

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On 01/02/2019 at 9:42 AM, logarhythm said:

Good stuff @jkn

 

Do you prefer the scanspeak tweeter over the beryllium's?

They are all good tweeters as I mentioned before however I do like the SS ring more then the beryllium version suit me better I guess 

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On 01/02/2019 at 1:04 PM, davewantsmoore said:

Speaker looks very nice!

 

What are you trying to show in each of the pictures?   (I can read what they are ....but what are you trying to say about them?)

Thanks 

Nothings special in the pictures just a final setting and crossovers...

I did change a little bit again since posting the pictures above !!

Crossovers 

2000/56db slopes Linear phase 

250/48db slopes Linear phase

80/24db slopes LR

max boost 6db in calibration templates/bass&sub

Final 2 pictures time alignment between the mains and subs 

 

 

 

 

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Wow they some steep crossovers, i love steep xo's but haven't gone that high (normally 24db/o)

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I have been using much steeper slopes like 108/96/76 for years but I think that if you use theses slopes you get more details and crisp sound however the sound it is no musical it just does not sound right (good but not right) when using lower slopes the sound is more enjoyable and natural J 

Edited by jkn

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And here I was considering 4th order 'high'.

I have been thinking lately about trying 8th order and I think that you just convinced me to have a crack

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On 06/02/2019 at 1:30 PM, Wozza_Lee said:

And here I was considering 4th order 'high'.

I have been thinking lately about trying 8th order and I think that you just convinced me to have a crack

 

The sound of different slope XOs (assuming they all sum correctly, etc.) is really the sound of the 'off axis response'.     Having a very sharp transition between two drivers, is a problem if their response at each angle does not line up.

 

It can sound "clear" (because the drivers don't overlap, you avoid the issue where the drivers sum imperfectly) but also "wrong", or "unnatural" .... as you have at certain angles a large "step" in the frequency response.

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On 26/12/2018 at 12:19 PM, jkn said:

 

 

f13.jpg  

 

@jkn these look ultra stylish. Looks modular like you could swap parts around or add more parts later. How many hours do you think you did this in?

 

Do you sell your speakers?

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The sound of different slope XOs (assuming they all sum correctly, etc.) is really the sound of the 'off axis response'.     Having a very sharp transition between two drivers, is a problem if their response at each angle does not line up.
 
It can sound "clear" (because the drivers don't overlap, you avoid the issue where the drivers sum imperfectly) but also "wrong", or "unnatural" .... as you have at certain angles a large "step" in the frequency response.
Yeah but i will be crossing low enough that it wont have any problems, the drivers in this particular application are not even beginning to beam at the frequencies im talking and are used near field.

Im certainly interested in any change that I could note in the character of the sound.

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7 hours ago, Mike13 said:

@jkn these look ultra stylish. Looks modular like you could swap parts around or add more parts later. How many hours do you think you did this in?

 

Do you sell your speakers?

Thanks 

swap parts yes and no ...etc you need the same diameter off drivers to swap it around If you like to keep the wood grain (matched) 

I do not sell speakers.

I'm not sure how many hours as I did not keep any records however these were the most time/money consuming speakers I have made so far

I do have 2 projects coming up soon  

project one build sub woofers on PAM tech (clone whise) I know and I read a lot In that regard- cloning whise but I will have a crack at it anyway 

project two I have bought Apogee ribbon panels which could be cross 500/750hz 

I'm thinking of OB with 2 18 or 15 bass drivers and the ribbon in the centre per side

Not sure which drivers to used yet I know that AE making some good drivers for OB but they are a bit expensive for 5 pieces  4 in 1 spare .I think they are some pro bass drivers that will suit I just haven't had a chance to look/search for it  

any suggestion anyone ?  

Edited by jkn

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GR research paper cones with Rythmik servo amps can go to upto 500-700Hz OB. Heard them in a friends system overseas with planars, but you may need 2-4 drivers per side as they are 12inch. There may be larger versions

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On 08/02/2019 at 4:30 AM, jkn said:

Thanks 

swap parts yes and no ...etc you need the same diameter off drivers to swap it around If you like to keep the wood grain (matched) 

I do not sell speakers.

I'm not sure how many hours as I did not keep any records however these were the most time/money consuming speakers I have made so far

I do have 2 projects coming up soon  

project one build sub woofers on PAM tech (clone whise) I know and I read a lot In that regard- cloning whise but I will have a crack at it anyway 

project two I have bought Apogee ribbon panels which could be cross 500/750hz 

I'm thinking of OB with 2 18 or 15 bass drivers and the ribbon in the centre per side

Not sure which drivers to used yet I know that AE making some good drivers for OB but they are a bit expensive for 5 pieces  4 in 1 spare .I think they are some pro bass drivers that will suit I just haven't had a chance to look/search for it  

any suggestion anyone ?  

Are 3 - 4, 12" drivers per side out of the question?

SBA 12" open baffle drivers may suit your requirements?

 

http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/woofers/nrx/12-sb34nrx75-16/

 

12SB34NRX75-16-spec.jpg12SB34NRX75-16-pic.jpg

12SB34NRX75-16-graph.jpg

 

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On 08/02/2019 at 5:30 AM, jkn said:

project one build sub woofers on PAM tech (clone whise)

Oooh.  This is ambitious (well, would be for me, anyways).  Please post!  :)

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7 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Oooh.  This is ambitious (well, would be for me, anyways).  Please post!  :)

I know what where you coming from 

 

Unlike all other driver/cabinet

alignments (bass reflex, infinite baffle,

transmission line, etc) this complex

labyrinth of ducts and baffles physically

changes the acoustic frequency response

of the bass driver without affecting its

electrical performance, a clever ‘trick’

that allows Whatmough-Whise to extract

the maximum acoustic output from the

driver while at the same time delivering

a flat frequency response along with

extremely low distortion. The concept is

both unique and patented, but perhaps

most importantly for Whatmough-Whise,

it’s impossible to ‘reverse-engineer’ a PAM

design in order to copy it, because the

labyrinth is so driver-specific that you

not only can’t substitute another driver,

you can’t even substitute a driver with

identical Theile/Small parameters. Only

the original driver can be used in the

cabinet.

PAM’s

 

 

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So, how do they sound??

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On 09/03/2019 at 8:44 AM, lamode said:

So, how do they sound??

Hi Graham I'm not sure which speakers/project you referring to anyway if you asking about the original Satori project I have to say they are sounding really good

I mean that are that good that I'm not in any hurry to start a new project .ETC I have made changes!!

I've decided to go back to my bliesma tweeter after several discussion with people who are using the same product. Anyway what I have done this time is:

1. changed /adjusted  volume output for the 3 way measurement to be used for calibration file

2.I have change the crossover point to 1250hz/54LP

3.I have rewired all enclosures    

4.I have made new speakers cables and all jumpers

5.I have change amplification to tweeter and mid section  

  

here is link for a review if anyone interested  

https://hificompass.com/en/content/bliesma-t34a-4-34mm-alumag-dome-tweeter

 

f15.jpg

cal_01.jpg

blisma_cal_01.jpg

blisma_cal_02.jpg

blisma_cal_03.jpg

blisma_cal_03a.jpg

blisma_cal_04.jpg

blisma_cal_05.jpg

t34a-4_offaxis-(1).jpg

 

 

Edited by jkn

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