USB Only Grob vs Terminator

[Dacman]

my sentiments exactly. im trying to get a few terminators sold into australia (one sold in sydney recently and he is extremely pleased) so people can see how good they are (i also have the ares and pontus  used for demos in melbourne). cheers.

[matth]

On ‎01‎.‎04‎.‎2018 at 2:18 PM, bhobba said:

I know of that comparison and its not quite that simple.  I have explained how the Killer was designed and what it does.  Now, if I remember correctly there were a number of DAC's at the comparison - they were quickly weeded out and it was down to the Killer and DCS.  Some preferred the Killer - others the DCS - so I  remember being told anyway.  You must always remember when you reach the rarefied atmosphere of top tier DAC's personal preference comes into it.  Some don't like the Killer - words I heard were varied - too hi-fi'ish - they wanted an obvious valve sound which the Killer is not - or it's a one trick pony like all valve gear in their view - brilliant midrange but other music like rock they are not so enamored with.  Some say the DCS is very ultra hi-fi but for them too sterile.   One in that camp heard the MSB but didn't find it like that. 

 

Please lets not make this another Killer DAC thread - nothing will be said that hasn't been said before.   I like the Killer on the music I listen to but as I mentioned on other music its not to my taste.   That's why I have both the Killer and Grob.  Some may not like either - Clay and Rawl I am sure couldn't care less - they know they make good DAC's.   I have heard enough DAC's in my time to know if you are in the market for a DAC its a good idea to listen to both.

 

So far I have not said anything about the sound of the Terminator.   Its very very good and up there in quality terms with all the others.  Its sound is simply very clean, clear, pure and uncolored.   This is possibly from the huge number of capacitors they have in the filter-bank lowering the overall ESR - but that is just conjecture.  Right now I will not say how it compares to the Klein - but I will - have no fear.

 

Thanks

Bill

Hi Bill,

 

looking for the best DAC there is a life outside the dCS/MSB cage.

I would listen to the Aries Cerat Kassandra:

 

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/04/aries-cerat-kassandra-mk2-dac-review.html

 

Best regards

 

Matt

[Dacman]

On 02/04/2018 at 6:24 PM, Rob181 said:

It is still a WIP...

Should have been ready...now in fact...around the end of March 18...

I have already paid for mine...how's that for a leap of faith...

It will I2S out to the Terminator DAC...

Hi Rob What was the retail price for the denafrips streamer if you dont mind me asking? and have you preordered via vinshine? (im running a terminator)cheers

[Toothdoc]

Grob ---- terminator.... Fight! 

[joz]

Had a listen to the Terminator at @Dacman , sounds very promising indeed even though I was listening to a completely unfamiliar system.

Excellent features and build quality 

But it looks like I'll need to wait a while to hear it in my setup.

[Dacman]

9 minutes ago, joz said:

Had a listen to the Terminator at @Dacman , sounds very promising indeed even though I was listening to a completely unfamiliar system.

Excellent features and build quality 

But it looks like I'll need to wait a while to hear it in my setup.

Ill bring it around ...with some power cables lol  when i get back!!!

[sir sanders zingmore]

52 minutes ago, Toothdoc said:

Grob ---- terminator.... Fight! 

My prediction:

some people will like one and some will like the other

[Snoopy8]

51 minutes ago, Toothdoc said:

Grob ---- terminator.... Fight! 

At just over $2k, the Groß takes on the Terminator at 3 (?) times the price?  Not exactly an even playing field!

[Rob181]

8 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

At just over $2k, the Groß takes on the Terminator at 3 (?) times the price?  Not exactly an even playing field!

"Its not the size of the dog in the fight...its the size of the fight in the dog"....

[PeteD]

My head is about to explode from the stress of trying to come to a decision on what dedicated DAC to buy. Chord Qutest, Gieseler Gross, Benchmark DAC3, now this Terminator thing, etc.  I’m not having a lot of luck in getting hold of any of these units to try on my system so will be taking the Cambridge CXN around the shops to compare it to something that will hopefully be hugely better sounding.

 

I really don’t mind spending between two and three thousand dollars on this new acquisition but there needs to be a significant improvement in SQ. Of course, everyone’s got a convincing story about why the thing they’re selling is so much better than the opposition.

 

I’ll probably end up doing what a lot of audiophiles do – keep on buying new gear and then selling it second-hand later on when the Next Big Thing turns up in all its glory 

[Gieseler Audio]

Hi Pete,

hey I'm happy to send you a Gross DAC for a listen - you will just be up for freight to return it but that won't be much.

You will need my three input version Gross which I unfortunately  I don't have in stock at the moment but I should have one late next week.

I just had a look at the Cambridge CXN (nice unit) & it actually has pretty good on board DAC's  Dual Wolfson WM8740 24-bit.

How it it sounding at the moment?

 

[PeteD]

29 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Pete,

hey I'm happy to send you a Gross DAC for a listen - you will just be up for freight to return it but that won't be much.

You will need my three input version Gross which I unfortunately  I don't have in stock at the moment but I should have one late next week.

I just had a look at the Cambridge CXN (nice unit) & it actually has pretty good on board DAC's  Dual Wolfson WM8740 24-bit.

How it it sounding at the moment?

 

Hi Clay, we corresponded earlier in the week about me planning to visit you during the last week of this month - hoping you will be available to see me on 26th, 27th or 28th April. It would be great if I could take a Loaner unit away with me to test at home. Apart from the Oppo BDP-105 the Cambridge CXN is the only other DAC I have connected to my system.

 

For sure the CXN sounds really good but, from all accounts, your gear blows it out of the water. In any event, I'll be keeping the CXN because it performs well as a Streamer with Spotify and Internet radio. I'll contact you again a couple of days before I arrive on the coast.

 

[Gieseler Audio]

Hi Pete,

sorry I must losing it - it is the pressure of building endless DAC's & handling enquiries as well. haha

OK I will certainly have a well run in three input Gross at the shop for you to have a listen to when you arrive.

Cheers Clay

[cazzesman]

13 hours ago, Dacman said:

Ill bring it around ...with some power cables lol  when i get back!!!

Dacman what is the price of the Terminator to get it from Vinshine to Melbourne (In Aust $).

 

Regards Cazzesman

[Dacman]

57 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

Dacman what is the price of the Terminator to get it from Vinshine to Melbourne (In Aust $).

 

Regards Cazzesman

hi cazzesman the price quoted on the website is in singapore dollars but it includes shipping i think it works out to about 5600AUD ...cheers

[Snoopy8]

Need to factor in GST, import duties etc.

https://www.ebay.com.au/gds/The-A-Z-of-Importing-into-Australia-Duty-GST-Customs-/10000000015634691/g.html

 

[Dacman]

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

Need to factor in GST, import duties etc.

https://www.ebay.com.au/gds/The-A-Z-of-Importing-into-Australia-Duty-GST-Customs-/10000000015634691/g.html

 

The denafrips dacs are sent from china where they are made, they list the value to a very at a marginal rate....lottery.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Dacman

[cazzesman]

So has any SNA member purchased a Terminator from Vinshine and if so what was the total price you paid to get it into your lounge room? (Product, shipping, taxes, GST, etc, etc, etc).    I'm guessing a tad over $6000 Aust $.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[zenelectro]

On 4/2/2018 at 3:26 PM, Nada said:

Thinking about DA design does anyone know if the Terminalbor does any internal calibration of the R2R network on power up e.g. is there a delay on turn on before PCM can be played?  Dan Lavry nailed that ages ago with his genius compensation design to ensure r2r networks are accurate but the Chinese seem to be having a really hard time ripping that off in a competent way despite Dan openly publishing the design online. That's not like the Chinese. I presume the implementation is harder then it looks?

I don't know that he openly published the design but it is certainly explained with a fair amount of detail. It's a fairly complex process of calibration and apparently

the first time it's powered up takes the longest. Also the resistors are in a temp controlled oven.  Each 'bit' has it's own (from memory 10 bit) DAC that does the 

initial adjustment. 

I have a feeling this design is no more due to parts availability and the Lavry top DAC is no longer a strictly R2R however not 100% sure about this. 

Regardless, I remember reading about this DAC's operation many years ago and thinking - wow, this guy is a serious designer. 

Those were the days when some of those Pro DACs were really serious efforts and many hi end DACs were a joke. 

Apogee's (By Australian Bruce Jackson) DA2000 was an R2R based DAC that had custom digital filters and a discrete potted zero feedback I-V module.

 

On 4/2/2018 at 3:26 PM, Nada said:

I read the final page of the SixMorons review of the Terminalbor and see in a big DAC comparison it was a DAC with the redundant TDA1541A chip that was favoured.  I think that makes this shoot out also redundant. You guys can all stay home now, turn on your TDA1541A DAC's and relax knowing you listening to a superior low glitching chip.

Yes I read that. Interesting that the lowly old TDA1541A scored best marks for detail retrieval.  New is not necessarily better.

Well I'm bucking the system and cooking up  a multiple parallel PCM1794 DAC with custom dig filters and clocking. 

Why go with trends and in fact if the numbers pan out an actual DR of 140dB (or better) should be achievable.

T

[tripitaka]

On 02/04/2018 at 2:18 PM, bhobba said:

... I don't have any DSD tracks.  I had a few but converted them to PCM using some special programs I have and simply cant tell the difference, plus it saves space.  The special program is XIFEO - also called my truth program:

https://www.xivero.com/xifeo/

Hi Bhobba, sorry to intrude on this thread with a tangential question but i also want to convert my dsd files to PCM.  Can I ask which program you use? I guess it isnt xifero since that apparently doesnt accept dsd as an input format...

Thanks

[bhobba]

On 03/05/2018 at 7:14 PM, tripitaka said:

Hi Bhobba, sorry to intrude on this thread with a tangential question but i also want to convert my dsd files to PCM.  Can I ask which program you use? I guess it isnt xifero since that apparently doesnt accept dsd as an input format...

Thanks

 

Its XISRC - you choose what sample rate to convert it to.   By default its DXD.  Then you run it through XIFEO the entropy optimizer to see what frequency it really goes up to before its just noise.   You convert it then to the rate that captures whatever max frequency it goes to - for most material its about 30-40khz so its 88.2K in the XISRC and then through XIFEO again.  Its so frequently 88.2 I start at that and only go higher on very rare material that has content above 44.1k.

 

Most of the time you end up with MUCH smaller files.   Experiments show its about the same size as MQA which kind of makes you wonder why its used in the first place.

 

It would be even better if a frequency based compressor was used instead of FLAC eg:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/lossless-and-near-lossless-audio-compression-using-integer-reversible-modulated-lapped-transforms/

 

But players don't play that format so you are stuck with Flac.

 

Thanks

Bill

[tripitaka]

Wow thank you!

It's a fine thing to see an expert get down to work.

 

No further questions

[lemarquis]

Did the Terminator vs Gross shoot out ever eventuate?