almikel Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) On 24/07/2018 at 4:31 PM, Red Spade Audio said: these are technically speaking "small satellites." LoL - I love Paul's definition of "small"... ....like this is a "small" sub - my Redspade designed T20 sub (2400x400x300) after it was just finished and dragged outdoors to do some measurements I pulled a muscle getting it outside on my own to make the measurements and had to call for help to get it back into the room. All humour aside, actually a design philosophy not too different to the "small" satellites in the OP's thread - achieve ~20Hz bass with small (12") sub drivers and moderate power (370W per driver), yet provide decent SPL with reasonable headroom (excursion and amp power) to allow dynamics. ...Hoffman's iron rule for bass speakers at play - choose any 2 of 3: low bass high efficiency small box Clearly this sub design chooses low bass and high efficiency - I just had to build a big box (the easy bit). In my small room, the T20 is barely ticking over even at elevated volumes (including movies) - it just adds that extended "weight" to the room bass response. At the start I was paranoid about needing a high pass on it given it's a tapped horn (same as ported subs - very large excursion below tuning). I took off the high pass and ran some measurements at decent SPL and kept an eye (and a finger) on driver excursion. With no high pass filter, without excessive excursion, it was pretty flat to 15Hz at decent SPL. I don't bother with a high pass now. A colleague reckoned it was enough sub for a small commercial cinema - not likely, but 2 of them would cope easily. I've thought about running the drivers as 2 sealed subs, but the effortlessness of the T20 to hit low bass makes my lazy DIY gene kick in - it's already in the room after all. cheers Mike Edited September 9, 2018 by almikel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 Paul has his subs built into the floor. Great solution to hide the monsters. He definitely makes quality products and knows his stuff. I'd considered getting all my surrounds changed out to be matching, but now with a new born baby, don't have the time or the energy. Speakers have shipped btw. Should be receiving them in the next 2 weeks. I hate shipping from Eastcoast to Perth, it always ends up so expensive...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandS Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 What is the weight of them... The cat 12's are heavy enough, I was surprised how lite the amp was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 It was about 300Kg for all 3. The middle cabinet weighs the most at a bit over 40kgs. The two woofer cabinets are a little under 30Kgs each. One of my design criteria to Paul was to make the speaker modular - mainly to make it easier to move around. Despite that, I think I'll need to do a few push ups before these arrive..... Yeah they Amps don't weigh too much on the CATS. I don't even think the drivers weight a lot. Its the construction of the cabinet. I think the CATs are around 60kgs each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Look what arrived.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 The packaging done by Paul was insane. Took my awhile to unbox it all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 One of the design requests was modularity, hence all the boxes. Main reason was to keep the weight down, and make it easier for me to move. Even still, each cabinet is still quite heavy - especially the middle cabinet with the amp. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 People were asking about the amp with built in DSP, here is a photo. Wont help identify it though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Anyone know where I can get a power cable with a neutrik powercon end? Only one I could find in Australia was from here: https://www.lightupmylife.com.au/2-metre-piggy-back-plug-to-neutrik-powercon-plug-black?zenid=vv2mh2c994n29ipigh84880aa3 Don't mind getting one built, if anyone can recommend a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandS Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 What are the amps rated at. Any thing like the Cats. D class? I was surprised how lite the Cat amps were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 250/500/500W class d. The crossover for Pauls speaker is 3 way active. The seatons are 2 way active (woofer to mid/tweeter). The mid/tweeter crossover is passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 On 09/10/2018 at 11:08 AM, superaaaa said: Anyone know where I can get a power cable with a neutrik powercon end? Only one I could find in Australia was from here: https://www.lightupmylife.com.au/2-metre-piggy-back-plug-to-neutrik-powercon-plug-black?zenid=vv2mh2c994n29ipigh84880aa3 Don't mind getting one built, if anyone can recommend a place. I use these guys. Not local for you th though.. http://www.broadcastinstallshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) On 09/10/2018 at 11:04 AM, superaaaa said: here is a photo. Wont help identify it though. Found, cheers Edited October 13, 2018 by davewantsmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 On 13/10/2018 at 4:17 PM, Peter the Greek said: I use these guys. Not local for you th though.. http://www.broadcastinstallshop.com Thanks Pete. Paul said he would send me some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 On 13/10/2018 at 8:25 PM, davewantsmoore said: Found, cheers I dont know how you good them based on the pic - great detective work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhamus Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Haven't posted in yonks.. But I remember me and you talking superaa on DTV. Great news on the speakers mate.... My Red Spade Audio speakers are still going great.... Love them to bits!. Your new speakers look almost like the Triad Platinums! .Can't wait to hear the review mate!... Hope your well!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 Good to hear from you Bud. Life has changed a bit since DTV days - am now a family man with a 3 month old baby girl. But no matter how busy life gets, I still make time to indulge in this hobby Didn't realise that they do resemble the Triad Platinums. Both are a WMTMW design. But the triads use soft dome tweeters, where as these are compression drivers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhamus Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 hours ago, superaaaa said: Good to hear from you Bud. Life has changed a bit since DTV days - am now a family man with a 3 month old baby girl. But no matter how busy life gets, I still make time to indulge in this hobby Didn't realise that they do resemble the Triad Platinums. Both are a WMTMW design. But the triads use soft dome tweeters, where as these are compression drivers. Oh man, Congratulations on the baby girl. I have 3 kids now....and all boys *God help me* lol since the Seatons entered my life back in 2010 lol hahaha. You should post up some shots of your theater mate, from what I can see it looks real nice! Did you get the power cord sorted out?...How does it all sound mate? I was pretty stagnant on the upgrade side of things up until last year where I ordered the 2 x 6kw Speakerpower amps and slave plates for my 4 x Submersives from Mark lol. It made a huge difference compared to my old 1000w amps. New and final upgrade for me atm is incoming..........Full acoustic treatment.....I have some Quest AI Q-Fractors, RPG BADs and Vicoustic DC2 panels coming :). After this............next will be 4k PJ and Atmos....but that will be quite a few years off as that will be a big upgrade price wise for me lol. If I keep going, Mrs will chop my nuts off lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhamus Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 On 13/10/2018 at 1:15 PM, superaaaa said: 250/500/500W class d. The crossover for Pauls speaker is 3 way active. The seatons are 2 way active (woofer to mid/tweeter). The mid/tweeter crossover is passive. BTW - Pretty sure the Catalyst are 3 way active bud. http://seatonsound.net/product/catalyst-12c-powered-loudspeaker/ Catalyst 12C Features: Electronics: Internally tri-amplified, fully active loudspeaker Assembled in USA 3 high efficiency ICEpower amplifiers DSP implementation of 3 way active crossover 2,000W available across 4 drive units Transformer coupled, balanced input connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 19 hours ago, buddhamus said: You should post up some shots of your theater mate, from what I can see it looks real nice! Did you get the power cord sorted out?...How does it all sound mate? I was pretty stagnant on the upgrade side of things up until last year where I ordered the 2 x 6kw Speakerpower amps and slave plates for my 4 x Submersives from Mark lol. It made a huge difference compared to my old 1000w amps. New and final upgrade for me atm is incoming..........Full acoustic treatment.....I have some Quest AI Q-Fractors, RPG BADs and Vicoustic DC2 panels coming :). I have a thread here: Paul will send me some power cables. In the mean time, I used the ones from the CATs for an initial test. You've gone with a mixture of different manufactures for your acoustic treatment. All good choices. Did you get a specific acoustic plan design ? My bad on the 3 way active crossover mistake - memory going in my old age Paul and I were discussing speaker design concept early in the design phase, and I was looking into a particular speaker I thought was a 3 way active, but turned out to be 2 way active with passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhamus Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 7:58 PM, superaaaa said: I have a thread here: Paul will send me some power cables. In the mean time, I used the ones from the CATs for an initial test. You've gone with a mixture of different manufactures for your acoustic treatment. All good choices. Did you get a specific acoustic plan design ? My bad on the 3 way active crossover mistake - memory going in my old age Paul and I were discussing speaker design concept early in the design phase, and I was looking into a particular speaker I thought was a 3 way active, but turned out to be 2 way active with passive. Awesome, Theater looks great mate!! Yeah, i got Nyal Mellor from Acoustic Frontiers to do the design of my room, they are based in the US. I was very happy with them and all the plans they gave me. His support was also awesome :). I got the Baffle Wall, Bass Trap Riser, Seating placement, LFE optimization and Acoustic treatment from him. We will see how the room sounds with all the treatment in, in a couple of weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 I tried to engage Nyal to do a acoustic design for my theater, but he informed me he is now concentrating on US only Oh well. It would be great to get some feedback once you've installed the treatment on the difference it made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 So listening impressions. I only had a brief chance to try these out, before I had to fly out for work (won't be back for a couple of weeks now). I listened with them in random position (as shown in the photos), with no setup by the receiver for timing delays or eq. I just wanted to get a feel for the sound. And the outcome - I did not like the sound at all I was very underwhelmed. They were boring - quite laid back. There was no crispness in the sound (details were missing), and not dynamic at all. Miles behind what the Seatons provide. I ping'd Paul with my concerns. His feedback was as follows: "Let me know when you're ready to calibrate them in your room. It doesn't matter how many times I go through this process, it can still surprise me how much the sound can change. This reminds me of something in videography. The pros shoot using a log profile. Before editing, you can capture better looking footage out of your mobile phone. It looks washed out, no contrast. It's done that way to capture more shadow detail. When colour graded, the log footage has all this extra shadow detail where the iphone video makes them all simply black. The contrast is easily brought back into the image and the final result is cleary superior. But if you were judging on the basis of what comes out of the camera, you'd think an iphone beat a pro cinema camera! What I've created for you is a speaker designed to be calibrated. Therefore there is no voicing to make it sound a particular way right ouf of the box. It has been designed to deliver extreme dynamic range with a neutral sonic signature and freedom from fatigue. This provides the best "blank canvas" for us to then shape the tonal balance. Once we lift the top end and shape the response, you will notice the return of detail and dynamics and the sound will come to life. Before that is done, it will really test your faith that the sound can change that much with EQ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superaaaa Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Based on my experience with playing around with speakers, I 100% concur with Paul on this. Setup makes a big difference, especially if you are after a particular sound character (as I am). My brief to Paul was give me a speaker that I can customise to my taste, and that is what he has delivered. Only problem is it will be a while before I can truly provide provide accurate feedback on the speakers. I need to sell the Seatons before I can move these speakers into position, so I can demo to potential buyers. Maybe I'll give it a month, and move them out of the way if they are not gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 18 hours ago, superaaaa said: I did not like the sound at all Oh no! that's terrible news.... Who's going to do the calibration. Is Paul coming to you, or will you do it remote somehow? I'd be interested to see whatever measurements Paul is planning on doing for the new ones for the Seatons. That way you can compare like for like when they're in position. .....I'd have said its a room issue, but obviously not given your comments (position aside, which is no small thing....but....). They're so well behaved in terms of raw measurements, you must be after something quite specific for your tastes. Hopefully Paul can dial them in for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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