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Comprehensive image retention over 24wks

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Here’s a test they have done over 24 weeks a number of panels including LG OLED.  

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled

 

I’ve started this thread to ensure when buying an OLED panel or any panel for that matter is to show you the effects on use for each technology.    You can see the progress from week zero all the way to week 24, 6mths.    Every technology  brings with it it’s own charactertics that’s unique.  How you use it will depend on the level of degradation.   Like I’ve previously posted until you do a comprehensive color test like they have done here,  you won’t notice it under normal viewing.  

Notice also what Sony saids on there website on OLED and image retention and the modes used to “reduce” the effects 

 

 

 

 

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I’ll definitely have to look into this before buying a tv. I haven’t heard of anyone having burn in issues with oled. Might be too new a tech

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This is a LG OLED on display at JB HIfi in a DFO in Melb CBD today!  What these pics show on the iPhone5 is typical of LG OLED complaints around the world.  This panel isn't displaying static content but just normal TV viewing on display.   The centre of the panel is severely effected.  

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The LG OLED screens use a pixel shape and placement pattern that is not like a normal pixel structure.

The placement is sort of if you were looking at a Rubiks cube side on, you have RED and Blue at all spaces, but the pixels that reproduce Green would be the equivalent to all the spaces between the nine squares, a sort of 'S' shape.

 

Green is the colour used to carry luminosity or Brightness, so the more Green pixels there are, the brighter a screen will appear............hence this is why LG screens always measure brighter than their counterparts.

 

The problem is, this pixel structure makes LG screens almost impossible to calibrate.

This has been a reported problem in the calibration pages of the AVS forum for over a year now.

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All LG panels? They’re the only manufacturer right?

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On ‎7‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 12:39 AM, Addicted to music said:

I’ve started this thread

Fair enough... but I had already posted this some time ago in the OLED thread.

 

People need to take this with a grain of salt, as they are driving the panels extremely hard and well beyond any normal usage to induce burn-in. It's a longevity test moreso than anything else...

 

Why are the best TV's always so bloody touchy! :ohmy:

 

JSmith :ninja:

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I think one of the problems with burn-in with OLED's, at least at the moment, is with owners who might be watching a lot of 4K HDR material, and secondly also have their contrast/brightness turned up far too high in a attempt to get the brightness level they have been used to with running a LCD/LED screen.

 

They might have the $$ to buy the screen, but having the $$ doesn't mean they have the intelligence to know how to run one without damaging it, and what OLED's limitations are compared to LCD/LED.

People think OLED is better than LCD/LED, well it is if you have the room type suitable for OLED screen [low ambient lighting], but if you don't, they aren't, they would be better served with a LCD/LED screen.

 

 

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Here's another with image retention, this time at Myers Melb.  You can see the retention from a mile away....this set would be at least 6-8 mths no more...

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am not sure what we are looking at... but has ANYONE in this case many ANY efforts to take it off the usual out of box, crank to the max !  retina burning - look at me - shop settings ? 

 

I remember the whinge factory on plasma image retention. and yet in the 3 panels I have owned so far and the others in the family with just some simple setup and taking care in first 200 hours meant years later they are ALL performing without a hint of image retention and they have been used with all sorts ... sport, cricket motor sport, gaming blah blah...  not a thing. happy days .... 

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4 minutes ago, :) al said:

am not sure what we are looking at... but has ANYONE in this case many ANY efforts to take it off the usual out of box, crank to the max !  retina burning - look at me - shop settings ? 

 

I remember the whinge factory on plasma image retention. and yet in the 3 panels I have owned so far and the others in the family with just some simple setup and taking care in first 200 hours meant years later they are ALL performing without a hint of image retention and they have been used with all sorts ... sport, cricket motor sport blah blah...  not a thing. happy days .... 

This is it, it will bother some and not others, it’s personal...

You’re Tell me you can’t see the greening that shouldnt be the case for the pics in the post 12 March, you can see clearly that it effects other colors to.  The latest pics I’ve taken I see an image of the logo “Dolby Vision HR”  burnt into the screen, Myers was repeatingly playing a demo file.  With the slow reaction time of my photographic skills on the iPhone I can’t get it on the pic.  But with a color test file I’ll guarantee you’ll see it clearly.  

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9 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

This is it, it will bother some and not others, it’s personal...

You’re Tell me you can’t see the greening that shouldnt be the case for the pics in the post 12 March, you can see clearly that it effects other colors to.  The latest pics I’ve taken I see an image of the logo “Dolby Vision HR”  burnt into the screen, Myers was repeatingly playing a demo file.  With the slow reaction time of my photographic skills on the iPhone I can’t get it on the pic.  But with a color test file I’ll guarantee you’ll see it clearly.  

hey I dont care either way as am not buying. but what is it in the above pics you are expecting us to see. didnt answer my question. are these on out of box settings ? ie the standard crank to the max, retina burning. * look at me* shop settings ? which usually has contrast, brightness and colour, backing light  all cranked up to get peoples attention. 

 

or has anyone made even the slightest efforts in setting them up. usually even 1-2 mins to setup brightness, contrast colour to eye will do with thx optimiser get on discs. am not talking any full pro calibration or anything :) and i repeat reason I say like plasma even the littlest effort to setup and a bit of care for first 200 hours has meant things like image retention is non event. 

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10 hours ago, :) al said:

hey I dont care either way as am not buying. but what is it in the above pics you are expecting us to see. didnt answer my question. are these on out of box settings ? ie the standard crank to the max, retina burning. * look at me* shop settings ? which usually has contrast, brightness and colour, backing light  all cranked up to get peoples attention. 

 

or has anyone made even the slightest efforts in setting them up. usually even 1-2 mins to setup brightness, contrast colour to eye will do with thx optimiser get on discs. am not talking any full pro calibration or anything :) and i repeat reason I say like plasma even the littlest effort to setup and a bit of care for first 200 hours has meant things like image retention is non event. 

The showrooms are a great test for image retention,  in Myers or JB or any store that has mutilple display I wouldn’t expect any to be set up properly and clearly it doesn’t matter becuase it goes to show the downfall of the technology.   These sales people are too lazy and have no idea and what you’ll also find even if it was calibrated it won’t stand out  to make a sale as the  colors are not saturated to compete with the model next to it in saturation and brightness play the same content.  This is a good test to see if it bothers you, I won’t point out where the retention is but looking at the pics there are areas that are so evident on that screen with the damage, and that’s playing normal content!  If you can’t see it then do have your eyes evaluated for a color blindness check.   I’ve seen it happen to a lot plasma screens and CRT but plasma were the worst, none of those and these oled are repairable.  

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The burn-in can be seen where I've highlighted. It's shown as shadowing that shouldn't be there.

The top right is a logo, as is the one towards the bottom left. The one on the middle I can't make out what it was but it's there.

It's pretty hard to pick up from downsized photos posted on a forum, but I can see it fairly easily which means it would have been 10x worse in person.

 

The last picture is the hardest to see it, because of all the clouds in the image.

 

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11 minutes ago, ~Spyne~ said:

The burn-in can be seen where I've highlighted. It's shown as shadowing that shouldn't be there.

The top right is a logo, as is the one towards the bottom left. The one on the middle I can't make out what it was but it's there.

It's pretty hard to pick up from downsized photos posted on a forum, but I can see it fairly easily which means it would have been 10x worse in person.

 

The last picture is the hardest to see it, because of all the clouds in the image.

 

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Well done mate,

 

the middle or centre of the screen was a dead give away and like you said it’s 10x worst in person...   what it did for me was it draws your eyes to those points.    When the screen gradually darkens from light to gray the words Dolby Vision Is implanted into the screen!  It’s no doubt as I said that they kept playing the same file over and over again.    

As you can see for any pruchaser that these oled  screen was $15k RRP when it was released,  you can pick this screen up for $7k at JB.   I’d be severely jacked off if I paid that amount of money and it didn’t last 12mths and it did this.

 

If you are going to purchase a oled know it’s limitation in cranking the brightness up and ensure your contents aren’t static.  As you can see OLEDs are no good for Graphic Arts.   I was at JB today with the latest LG 2018 release screens, I have difficulty looking st the demo file they used to convince potential buyers of the unrealistic saturation’s that these screens produced, what they outlined as an improvement in colour saturation of certain scenes is beyond realistic especially when it’s out of the box in saturated dynamic or demonstration mode.  Speaking to the the sales guy at JB he didn’t give a F—k  shrugged his shoulder and said buts impressive color saturation all he was interested was moving the boxes as quickly as he can, trying to get few group of people to buy models he still have in stock!

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@~Spyne~ good on you for highlighting. only one of those I picked hint off, but then couldnt see in 2 other shots so didnt want to assume.

 

1 hour ago, Addicted to music said:

I have difficulty looking st the demo file they used to convince potential buyers of the unrealistic saturation’s that these screens produced, what they outlined as an improvement in colour saturation of certain scenes is beyond realistic especially when it’s out of the box in saturated dynamic or demonstration mode.  Speaking to the the sales guy at JB he didn’t give a F—k  shrugged his shoulder and said buts impressive color saturation all he was interested was moving the boxes as quickly as he can, trying to get few group of people to buy models he still have in stock!

see this is my problem with all this. 

 

and this was problem with plasmas being demoed too. in the bright show environment where everything has to be cranked out of box to have eye popping colours etc to catch the passing shoppers. Surely you would hope no one in right mind took these sets home and just ran them like that ? I suppose many people none the wiser do, unbox hook it up off they go.

 

It is why I am saying like with plasmas I am not sure the die is cast you buy one of these babies and gotcha image retention for life ! 

 

I am sure there are sales guys that do indeed care and do take time to adjust. I remember many many years ago when I bought a hitachi plasma(still going fine at in-laws) I became aware the amount of effort hitachi then would put in to train sales staff at HN. And I was  surprised indeed their level of knowledge. Hitachi staff were even in store on some days. Perhaps those days are long gone. But I dont think we should right off sales guys holus bolus even if there are some downright turkeys out there !

 

I am sorry but like plasmas you havent wavered me in my thinking that if joey blogs spent 2 min doing some basic setup with consumer available test pattern. I'm not talking any high foluten calibration or anything. just adjusting contrast brightness and colour back to the realms of the reasonable and took just a tad bit of care for say 200 hours when get the telly home .... that they would be consigned to image retention.

 

if that rtings had something constructive to support this exercise they'd put in as a control a panel with some basic adjustment as part of their testing. 

 

other wise in car terms its like taking a brand new car off show room and running down the freeway red lining it till it siezed up or something !  and then saying ... see ! :D 

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16 minutes ago, :) al said:

@~Spyne~ good on you for highlighting. only one of those I picked hint off, but then couldnt see in 2 other shots so didnt want to assume.

 

see this is my problem with all this. 

 

and this was problem with plasmas being demoed too. in the bright show environment where everything has to be cranked out of box to have eye popping colours etc to catch the passing shoppers. Surely you would hope no one in right mind took these sets home and just ran them like that ? I suppose many people none the wiser do, unbox hook it up off they go.

 

 

You’d be surprised in what I have to deal with even in the Graphics Art industry.  I’ve lost count  the number of times a display has been cranked up becuase they can’t get the brightness up in there environment and then tell me that the color doesn’t match what’s on display. And this is in the Professional field where there clients demand colour accuracy with there prints.  Some logos are color specific and are Patend with specific RGB > CYMK.  Notice I work in the CMYK realm and not RGB.  Ive had clients complained that Theres a pattern in there prints that shouldnt be there because it’s not on there display; yet they’ve cranked up the brightness becuase of there environment and it washes the details out!  Then they tell me it shouldn’t be there so there  must be wrong with the printer!!!     It isn’t until I fire the laptop up and pull the file on my laptop screen and demonstrate to them that it’s there responsibility to calibrate that screen correctly...this call is now chargable and it’s not under the service agreement!    

The average person couldn’t tell what’s normal, and those days where the manufacturers go and educate sales people at JB or HN or Myers are over!  As I saw today this guy at JB couldn’t care less!  All he wanted was to move what stock he had left.  All he’s interested in is how he’s gonna convinced the few groups that was on the floor looking at the Sony and Samsung models that he didn’t have in stock and then convincing them all to buy the Hisense 65” LED in the same price range that he still had in stock!   “Hisense has a 3yr warranty....” :thumb:

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, :) al said:

@~Spyne~ good on you for highlighting. only one of those I picked hint off, but then couldnt see in 2 other shots so didnt want to assume.

 

see this is my problem with all this. 

 

and this was problem with plasmas being demoed too. in the bright show environment where everything has to be cranked out of box to have eye popping colours etc to catch the passing shoppers. Surely you would hope no one in right mind took these sets home and just ran them like that ? I suppose many people none the wiser do, unbox hook it up off they go.

 

It is why I am saying like with plasmas I am not sure the die is cast you buy one of these babies and gotcha image retention for life ! 

 

I am sure there are sales guys that do indeed care and do take time to adjust. I remember many many years ago when I bought a hitachi plasma(still going fine at in-laws) I became aware the amount of effort hitachi then would put in to train sales staff at HN. And I was  surprised indeed their level of knowledge. Hitachi staff were even in store on some days. Perhaps those days are long gone. But I dont think we should right off sales guys holus bolus even if there are some downright turkeys out there !

 

I am sorry but like plasmas you havent wavered me in my thinking that if joey blogs spent 2 min doing some basic setup with consumer available test pattern. I'm not talking any high foluten calibration or anything. just adjusting contrast brightness and colour back to the realms of the reasonable and took just a tad bit of care for say 200 hours when get the telly home .... that they would be consigned to image retention.

 

if that rtings had something constructive to support this exercise they'd put in as a control a panel with some basic adjustment as part of their testing. 

 

other wise in car terms its like taking a brand new car off show room and running down the freeway red lining it till it siezed up or something !  and then saying ... see ! :D 

Al what are these settings? I bought the last of the Panasonic plasmas a few years ago and it definetly has burn in. Only noticed it after this thread, grrr. But it’s quite obvious. Suppose it doesn’t bother me too much. I’d like to upgrade to OLED only if better for sports and if they fix burn in probs.

 

Are’nt the settings reasonable out of the box? As long as you don’t choose ‘Dynamic’, which is really bright. 

Edited by Mike13

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23 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

Al what are these settings? I bought the last of the Panasonic plasmas a few years ago and it definetly has burn in. Only noticed it after this thread, grrr. But it’s quite obvious. Suppose it doesn’t bother me too much. I’d like to upgrade to OLED only if better for sports and if they fix burn in probs.

 

Are’nt the settings reasonable out of the box? As long as you don’t choose ‘Dynamic’, which is really bright. 

I was able to remove burn-in on our Samsung plasma by running an unused channel (with just flickering static on the screen) for about 6 hours. Might be worth a try?

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41 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

Al what are these settings? I bought the last of the Panasonic plasmas a few years ago and it definetly has burn in. Only noticed it after this thread, grrr. But it’s quite obvious. Suppose it doesn’t bother me too much. I’d like to upgrade to OLED only if better for sports and if they fix burn in probs.

nothing much. as I mentioned it would take a grand total about 2 min to adjust. 

 

do you have any old dvd or thx blu-ray with the THX logo ? they came with a little thing called the THX optimiser. which you selected from the disc menu. adjust contrast brightness and then pull in colour to loo natural. thats it for the basics. ive done this all plasma have owned. our original hitachi plasma is still going now over at family friends .... and that what 15 years old now ? no burn in. I did same setup on my pio kuro(last and final gen the best ) that replaced it ... 10 years ago. no burn in... and we use it for everything. fta tv, sport, gaming, kids stuff, you name it. we have left stuff paused on screen nothing. I was also always advised when get a new screen to straight away do this basic setup and for first 200 hours really be careful ie be extra careful not leave static stuff on screen, look for logos etc. just change channels rather than leave stuff with sport with stats and stuff all day long. but after than 200 hours we have watched withought a care. most things have screen savers on them too eg latest oppo/apple tv and such. so dont have to leave stuff burning on :)

 

41 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

Are’nt the settings reasonable out of the box? As long as you don’t choose ‘Dynamic’, which is really bright. 

unfortunately not.... if yo dive in the settings will likely be a bit shocked when go to set it up, how cranked everything is.

 

in store they I am quite sure as addicted has alluded to, also do crank up the levels. to catch attention. this is specifically important with HDR with higher levels signal these screens are trying to pump out anyways ! but to leave them on loops with static logos and doing the same thing day in day out with cranked levels is recipe for disaster ! as can be seen. 

 

personally all the more reason I'm quite happy leaving my pio kuro be and let it keep doing its thing and perfectly adequate in any case as since have projector when want to watch bigger screen stuff. so no prying need to upgrade :)

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Image retention = temporary/fixable

 

Burn in = permanent/not fixable

 

JSmith :ninja:

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Are’nt the settings reasonable out of the box? As long as you don’t choose ‘Dynamic’, which is really bright. 


We have a 6 year old 65” Panny plasma and I run all tv viewing on Dynamic. I change it to custom Cinema settings for movies and 3D BR but all the kids shows are on Dynamic. I know it’s fake but it looks better imho. Probably gonna get castrated by you guys...

Anyway, we haven’t got any image retention that I can see. No burn in. But we only watch maybe 3-4 hours on average a day. I’ll use this threat to try and identify some tonight.

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5 minutes ago, Klattsy said:

We have a 6 year old 65” Panny plasma and I run all tv viewing on Dynamic. I change it to custom Cinema settings for movies and 3D BR but all the kids shows are on Dynamic. I know it’s fake but it looks better imho. Probably gonna get castrated by you guys...

its something to keep in mind. while a set with even the most rudimentary setup will look more natural. for those used to pumped up colours and contrast etc they will say why does it look so dull ?  note particuallryt with plasmas its those first 200 hours that are most critical as things are settling down. and the sets most susceptible to burn in/image retention 

 

6 minutes ago, Klattsy said:

Anyway, we haven’t got any image retention that I can see. No burn in. But we only watch maybe 3-4 hours on average a day. I’ll use this threat to try and identify some tonight.

for many I suspect a non event especially with that sort of viewing patterns :)

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Guest Hensa
1 hour ago, JSmith said:

Image retention = temporary/fixable

 

Burn in = permanent/not fixable

 

JSmith :ninja:

Thanks for that, John. That's what I get for venturing out of the Analogue sub-forums!:thumb::lol:

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